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John Olerud or Mark Grace?

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  • #16
    They are somewhat close for career, but while I still think Olerud comes out ahead there, his peak puts him well over the top.

    Olerud's BA may now be below .300, but it is only 8 points below Mark's - not the smallest margin, but not the biggest either. And while his BA is lower, Olerud's OBP is still higher, by 15 points - my boy had plate discipline. Olerud was never know to be a power hitter, but he had more than Mark - 255 HR to 173. Olerud topped 20 HR in five seperate seasons, while Mark never once did. They are even in Doubles, and the triples are minimal in any case and neither were great runners, although Mark was a bit faster - anytime if your not sure if a player could beat Edgar in a foot race, they are SLOW.

    Olerud also has a little more Black Ink (7-3), a batting title, both led in doubles. They were both very good defensively, and I call it a draw there, maybe Mark gets an edge, maybe not.

    Both were very good players, and I wish the best of luck to John in his post-baseball ventures!

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    • #17
      Originally posted by dgarza
      Um.... I'm going to go with Grace, I think. Close call for me. Maybe Grace's def. puts him over the top for me. Olerud had some uncharacteristcally high years that help him out.
      Olerud's D isn't that far behind
      Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
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      • #18
        Originally posted by RuthMayBond
        Olerud's D isn't that far behind
        Grace had a higher rate of PO and Asts., His range factor numbers are better. For a while, Grace was 2 whole units better than league avg.

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        • #19
          Baseball Prospectus numbers show them as not being that close. Olerud had four seasons (1993, 1998, 2002, 1999) better than Grace’s best (1992).

          WARP3
          Career: best 10 years

          JO 111.4: 12.9/10.9/9.2/9.1/8.4/8.1/7.5/7.3/7.0/6.8
          MG 93.5: 8.7 /8.3 /8.1 /7.9 /7.7/7.4/6.9/6.8/6.3/5.8
          Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

          Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.

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          • #20
            Olerud. Pretty under-rated.
            Johnson and now Goligoski gone.
            I hope that's all.

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            • #21
              Seems pretty even so far, with perhaps a slight edge to Olerud. I wish I had thought to include a poll on this thread. :o

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              • #22
                Originally posted by DoubleX
                Seems pretty even so far, with perhaps a slight edge to Olerud. I wish I had thought to include a poll on this thread. :o
                Just a quick count showed it to be 3-7(8?), in favor of Olerud - so it's not so even.

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                • #23
                  Add yet another for Olerud.
                  Dave Bill Tom George Mark Bob Ernie Soupy Dick Alex Sparky
                  Joe Gary MCA Emanuel Sonny Dave Earl Stan
                  Jonathan Neil Roger Anthony Ray Thomas Art Don
                  Gates Philip John Warrior Rik Casey Tony Horace
                  Robin Bill Ernie JEDI

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by DoubleX
                    Seems pretty even so far, with perhaps a slight edge to Olerud. I wish I had thought to include a poll on this thread. :o
                    Wish granted.
                    This "Super Moderator" thing can be really cool when you know you have it and know how to use it.
                    Johnson and now Goligoski gone.
                    I hope that's all.

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                    • #25
                      I accidently clicked on Olerud as "significantly better", didn't read the whole thing - mean to click on Olerud as "slightly better"

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Edgartohof
                        I accidently clicked on Olerud as "significantly better", didn't read the whole thing - mean to click on Olerud as "slightly better"
                        I fixed the vote count.
                        The reason why the choices are in that order is that I originally just had olerud better, grace better, and even, and didn't think to include the significantly and slightly until after I realized that even could be interpreted as close. By that time, I thought someone might have already voted.

                        6-0 in favor of Olerud slightly ahead.
                        Johnson and now Goligoski gone.
                        I hope that's all.

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                        • #27
                          Olerud was significantly better.....they were similar players, but Olerud had a much higher peak and should have won an MVP. Grace was never close to an MVP.
                          Rooting the Reds home.

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                          • #28
                            Gary D

                            Got to go with Gracie...much better range at first base and better clutch hitter. Didn't do steroids as did Rafael Palmeiro, proving that the Cubs were right in trading Palmiero because he'd never hit home runs! He needed juice to hit them.

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                            • #29
                              My vote goes to Olerud...

                              Not only was he a better offensive player, but IMO, he was a better defensive player...
                              "There are three things in my life which I really love: God, my family, and baseball. The only problem - once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit.
                              ~~Al Gallagher


                              God Bless America!

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Ubiquitous
                                I always thought it was a shame Mark Grace was left-handed, I always felt that had he been a third basemen he probably would have had a shot at the HOF. But because he could only first base his shot at the hall went up in smoke with that defensive choice.
                                Do you mean that if he played third base for the Cubs like Ron Santo, he could have made the Hall of Fame, too?

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