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John Olerud or Mark Grace?

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  • Honus Wagner Rules
    replied
    Originally posted by digglahhh
    In keeping with the alternating pattern, chalk me up for Olerud.

    Even with the deduction for wearing a helmet while playing defense.
    Why is that a deduction?

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  • RuthMayBond
    replied
    Originally posted by digglahhh
    Even with the deduction for wearing a helmet while playing defense.
    Deduction? Ain't he allowed to protect himself?

    Leave a comment:


  • Captain Cold Nose
    replied
    Originally posted by RuthMayBond
    I guess, although Olerud's only 230 PA behind, and closing
    Closed, for some intents and purposes. He's at least told te BoSox he's retiring, but I don't think it's official yet.

    Leave a comment:


  • RuthMayBond
    replied
    Originally posted by abacab
    I think that a healthy Olerud was a much better player than Grace. Grace's only real advantage is durability, which makes up a lot of the difference because Olerud had a lot of trouble staying in the lineup.
    I guess, although Olerud's only 230 PA behind, and closing
    Last edited by RuthMayBond; 12-07-2005, 10:14 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • abacab
    replied
    I think that a healthy Olerud was a much better player than Grace. Grace's only real advantage is durability, which makes up a lot of the difference because Olerud had a lot of trouble staying in the lineup. Without his injury troubles, Olerud would have made the Hall of Fame easily.

    Leave a comment:


  • KCGHOST
    replied
    Olerud by a decent margin. They are almost exact contemporaries and Olerud has a solid advantage in OPS+, OWP, and RCAA.

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  • Honus Wagner Rules
    replied
    I go with Olerud.

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  • Ubiquitous
    replied
    I would go with John Olerud, and it might not even be Marks fault that he gets second. For most of his career he was used wrong in the lineup. He is not a #3 or #4 hitter yet the Cubs kept putting him out there as one. Olerud was used in much the same way save that he ended up being a #5 hitter mostly and when he did play #3 he didn't do too bad at it. As a Met his #3 numbers were actually quite good. John to me was the better defender had the same batting average (once you factor in stadium), had more power despite playing in power suppressing stadiums, and had more patience at the plate. Add them all up and he was very good player and for me one that is clearly better then Mark Grace.

    I always thought it was a shame Mark Grace was left-handed, I always felt that had he been a third basemen he probably would have had a shot at the HOF. But because he could only first base his shot at the hall went up in smoke with that defensive choice.

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  • digglahhh
    replied
    In keeping with the alternating pattern, chalk me up for Olerud.

    Even with the deduction for wearing a helmet while playing defense.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bench 5
    replied
    I give the edge to Grace. I was never a fan of his while he played because he came off as a pretty boy that loved the camera too much. But in retrospect he played the game right and had he not played in the steroid era his stats would look better. He reminded me a lot of Bill Buckner as a hitter.

    After he had that one big year everone thought Olerud was the 2nd coming of Ted Williams. He never came close to reaching that level but he was a solid hitter. This is a close call but I think Grace was a little better defensively and maybe a better clutch hitter.

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  • RuthMayBond
    replied
    Close call, but the edge to Olerud. 10 OPS+ points is a fair amount

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  • The Big C
    replied
    That's a tough call, but from me, Grace gets the Cubbie nod.

    Leave a comment:


  • DoubleX
    started a poll John Olerud or Mark Grace?

    John Olerud or Mark Grace?

    61
    John Olerud was signifacantly better than Mark Grace
    19.67%
    12
    Mark Grace was signifcantly better than John Olerud
    9.84%
    6
    Both were even
    4.92%
    3
    John Olerud was slightly better than Mark Grace
    49.18%
    30
    Mark Grace was slightly better than John Olerud
    16.39%
    10
    Since it appears that John Olerud is retiring, I wanted to compare him to another very solid and probably underated first baseman of the last 15 years - Mark Grace. Who was better? Some potentially relevant stats:

    OPS+
    Olerud: 129
    Grace: 119

    162 Game Triple Crown Averages
    Olerud: .295, 18, 89
    Grace: .303, 12, 83

    Career Hits Triple Crown Numbers
    Olerud: 2239, 255, 1230 (in 7592 AB)
    Grace: 2445, 173, 1146 (in 8065 AB)

    Gold Gloves
    Olerud: 3
    Grace: 4

    All-Star Appearances
    Olerud: 2
    Grace: 3

    Other
    Olerud: 1 Batting Title and 1 2nd Place Finish; 1 OPS Title; 1 Top 3 MVP Finish
    Grace: Most Hits and Doubles for all players during 90s; 8 Times in Top 10 in Batting

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