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  • Members' Official Opinions:

    As most of you know, I like to keep track of and tabulate our opinions. I maintain lists for all-time teams, all-time defensive teams, top 20 lists, etc. New additions and revisions, however, have become too much for one man to track. (My excel spreadsheets are a patch-work of confusion.) So I would like to institute a new project, a combination of "Who Are We?" and All-Time All-Star teams.

    I'd like to initiate Baseball Fever's Members' Official Opinions thread, a registry for the documentation of our opinions.

    I don't expect anyone to craft a finished product right away, but in time, my hope is that everyone would post/manage their own "opinions" account.

    Here is my proposed model:

    1. Top Players, Top Pitchers or Top Overall (at least a Top 20 for each, but the more, the better)

    2. All-Time All-Star Teams, First Team & Second Team

    3. Top 20 at each position (at your discretion).

    4. Your most committed baseball opinions.

    The above is merely a suggested outline. I know that we have members who will list their opinions in their own individual way and that's okay.

    The purpose is like "Who Are We? I'd Really Like To Know." It's the baseball side of our personas. If someone wants to know who you are, all they'd have to do is look at your posted "opinions" profile, and there you are. It should foster greater understanding and facilitate better communication all around. It also allows me to tabulate more accurately the running Ty/Babe/Willie/Honus supporters, instead of having to ask each person individually.

    There should be no attacking of any other member's opinions in this thread. This isn't a thread for debating; just for documentation of our most essential beliefs.

    I propose to bring it to the front regularly, so new members can "sign in", and older members can revise, adjust. I really tried to do it alone, but it's just too ambitious. This way, whenever you make a change, you can look up your original post in the Table of Contents (below) and make your updates easily. Another benefit is that this will make each person responsible for keeping their own "accounts" current, which will mean more frequent updating.

    I hope every member of Baseball Fever will sign in and post their opinions, showcasing them for their fellow baseball fans. I hope you agree with me about the value of maintaining this thread.

    I will go first (in the next post). I have 100 players, but after my top 30, my order is softer and I'm less prepared to debate them after that.


    Table Of Contents:

    538280
    64Cards
    baseballPaP
    Bill Burgess
    BillyF29
    Blackout
    Bothrops Atrox
    Captain Cold Nose
    christian gentleman
    csh19792001
    Dontworry
    DoubleX
    Edgartohof
    El Halo
    four tool
    jalbright
    julusnc
    leecemark
    Myankee4life
    NeverJustAGame
    pretorius
    RuthMayBond
    SABR Matt
    SeaverGooden
    Sultan_1895-1948
    The Dude
    torez77
    Wee Willie
    Windy City Fan


    Murderer's Row
    Suspectdevice1
    RichmondHillPhoenix
    Kenny14
    Wade8813
    Kyle
    Dodgerfan66
    cbenson5
    EvanAppara
    39. Wee Willie Keeler
    39. Rickey_Henderson
    40. Mariano_Rivera
    41. Toy Cannon
    42. MWiggins
    43. Minstrel
    44. Brett
    45. Skinn and Bones
    46. Jeffrey Maier
    47. The Kid
    48. HDH
    49. Westlake
    50. AstrosFan
    51. Lin_Kuei_Fighter
    52. Chris Duncan
    53. DiMag4Life
    54. PhilKid3
    55. Urbanshocker13
    56. OleMissCub
    57. Pghfan987
    58. Imapotato
    59. Catcher 24
    60. Chadwick
    61. Eddie Collins
    62. 2Chance
    63. Nightal
    64. Baseball Guru
    65. BoSox Rule
    66. Metal Ed
    67. Sirmudgeon
    68. The Splendid Splinter
    69. Honus Wagner Rules
    70. Mac195
    71. abacab

    72. SavoyBG
    73. Swingman24
    74. Dalkowski110
    75. Utter Chaos, the Kid
    76. Second Base Coach
    77-78. thread aids
    79. wrgptfan
    80. JRB
    81. thread aid
    82. Wade8813
    83. bluesky5
    Last edited by Chadwick; 06-21-2018, 04:16 PM.

  • #2
    All Time A Team (Note my A team is not simply the best at every position thrown together, but a group that I feel would best fit together as a team in terms of style and productivity. Similarly, I tried to pick bench players that would fill in the various roles needed on a bench. Also, I only picked actual relivers to be my relief pitchers)

    2B Eddie Collins
    SS Honus Wagner
    RF Ty Cobb
    LF Babe Ruth
    CF Willie Mays
    1B Lou Gerhig
    C Mickey Cochrane
    3B Wade Boggs

    UT Pete Rose
    C Yogi Berra
    OF Rickey Henderson
    UT Jackie Robinson
    OF Stan Musial
    OF Frank Robinson
    UT Ozzie Smith

    SP Greg Maddux
    SP Pete Alexander
    SP Walter Johnson
    SP Roger Clemens
    SP Cy Young

    RP Mariano Rivera
    RP Goose Gossage
    RP Bruce Sutter
    RP Billy Wagner
    RP Hoyt Wilhelm

    B Team

    C Johnny Bench
    1B Jimmy Fox
    2B Rogers Hornsby
    3B Mike Schimdt
    SS Alex Rodriguez
    RF Hank Aaron
    CF Micky Mantle
    LF Ted Williams

    C Mike Piazza
    OF Stan Musial
    UT Joe Morgan
    OF Barry Bonds
    UT Robin Yount
    UT Arky Vaughan
    OF Lou Brock

    SP Tom Seaver
    SP Lefty Grove
    SP Christy Mathewson
    SP Randy Johnson
    SP Satchel Paige

    RP Dennis Eckersly
    RP Dan Quisenberry
    RP Rollie Fingers
    RP John Franco
    RP Trevor Hoffman

    Top Pitchers
    1. Greg Maddux
    2. Walter Johnson
    3. Roger Clemens
    4. Cy Young
    5. Grover Alexander
    6. Lefty Grove
    7. Tom Seaver
    8. Christy Mathewson
    9. Randy Johnson
    10. Satchel Paige
    11. Bob Feller
    12. Warren Spahn
    13. Mordecai Brown

    Next tier includes Whitey Ford, Jim Palmer, Steve Carlton, Bob Gibson, Juan Marichal, Sandy Koufax, and Pedro Matinez

    Top Players
    1. Ty Cobb
    2. Willie Mays
    3. Babe Ruth
    4. Ted Williams
    5. Honus Wagner
    6. Lou Gerhig
    7. Hank Aaron
    8. Stan Musial
    9. Barry Bonds
    10. Eddie Collins
    Next tier includes many - Speaker, Mantle, Hornsby, Morgan, Lajoie, Henderson, Foxx, Bench, Schimdt, DiMaggio, Cochrane, Berra, F. Robinson, A. Rodriguez, Mathews, and others

    Top Catchers
    1. Cochrane
    2. Bench
    3. Berra
    4. Rodriguez
    5. Harnett
    6. Dickey
    7. Campanella
    8. Piazza
    9. Fisk
    10. Carter

    Top 1B
    1. Gerhig
    2. Foxx
    3. Sisler
    4. Greenberg
    5. Mize
    6. Bagwell
    7. Thomas
    8. McGwire
    9. Kilbrew
    10. Murray

    Top 2B
    1. Collins
    2. Hornsby
    3. Morgan
    4. Lajoie
    5. Robinson
    6. Gerhinger
    7. Sandburg
    8. Gordon
    9. Alomar
    10. Biggio

    Top 3B
    1. Schimdt
    2. Mathews
    3. Brett
    4. Boggs
    5. Baker
    6. Santo
    7. Boyer
    8. Robinson
    9. Traynor
    10. Collins

    Top SS
    1. Wagner
    2. Rodriguez
    3. Vaughan
    4. Yount
    5. Larkin
    6. Ripken
    7. Smith
    8. Banks
    9. Appling
    10. Davis

    Top RF
    1. Ruth
    2. Aaron
    3. Robinson
    4. Kaline
    5. Ott
    6. Clemente
    7. Gwyn
    8. R. Jackson
    9. Sheffield
    10. Winfield

    Top CF
    1. Cobb
    2. Mays
    3. Speaker
    4. DiMaggio
    5. Mantle
    6. Griffey
    7. Snider
    8. Hamilton
    9. Puckett
    10. Ashburn

    Top LF
    1. Williams
    2. Bonds
    3. Musial
    4. Henderson
    5. Yaz
    6. Jackson
    7. Raines
    8. Williams
    9. Rose
    10. Delehanty

    Top Relievers
    1. Wilhelm
    2. Gossage
    3. Sutter
    4. Rivera
    5. Eckersley
    6. Quisenberry
    7. Wagner
    8. Hoffman
    9. Henke
    10. Fingers

    Committed Opinions:
    Making contact is important for hitters
    Striking out batters isn't important for pitchers most of the time
    Greg Maddux can get a strikeout when he needs it
    Sabermetrics forgets you only need to win by one run
    Ron Santo is the most deserving player not in the HOF
    Ozzie Smith was a better offensive threat than most people give him credit for
    Its impossible to rank players who never played MLB ball alongside actual major leaguers. Dominating AA quality competition is just too sketchy.
    Players shut out of baseball for reasons beyond their control should be honored and celebrated.
    I give some credit for careers cut short by illness, death, or other tragedies if the player was still productive (Cochrane, Sisler, Puckett get credit. Munson, Joss, and Campenella don't)
    I give some credit for missing war years
    I don't give credit for run of the mill injuries that shorten a career (i.e. Mattingly)

    His Personal Hall of Fame:
    http://baseball-fever.com/showpost.p...10&postcount=6
    Last edited by Bill Burgess; 11-03-2006, 07:37 AM.
    "I will calmly wait for my induction to the Baseball Hall of Fame."
    - Sammy Sosa

    "Get a comfy chair, Sammy, cause its gonna be a long wait."
    - Craig Ashley (AKA Windy City Fan)

    Comment


    • #3
      SABR MATT'S UPDATED GI RANKINGS

      By way of an explanation...the tables below contain information in the following sequence:

      - First and Last Name
      - Whether they are currently members of the MLB HOF
      - Their overall rank among their positional peers
      - Their career normalized wins created...total first then broken into offensive and defensive wins.
      - Their prorated wins created, proratedto a standard career length (10000 PA for hitting wnis, 2000 Equivalent Games for fielding wins, and 12000 Outs Recorded for pitching wins) with a number of safety catches to prevent short careers from prorating out to ridiculous figures. The prorating is done, as always, by taking the difference between the player's playing time and the standard playing time and multiplying it by the normalized average win-scoring rate and adding those wins in (or subtracting if the player has more than the standard career length)...this rate element is also then broken into offensive and defensive components.
      - The MASTERY element which is a combination of wins created above the 90th percentile in each season and a career half-life as I've discussed in numerous other posts...the measure of the better half of a player's career. Again broken into offense and defense.

      For the pitching tables, the wins are just pitching wins and no other element was considered.

      Code:
      Catchers													
      First	Last    	HOF	Rank	CAREER	Off	Def	RATE	Off	Def	MASTERY	Off	Def	TOTAL
      Carlton	Fisk    	Y	1	138.51	94.32	44.19	145.13	103.27	41.86	90.64	67.93	22.72	477.76
      Mike	Piazza  	A	2	106.41	87.45	18.96	149.80	120.91	28.89	97.47	84.80	12.67	466.30
      Johnny	Bench   	Y	3	128.70	83.87	44.83	144.79	99.54	45.25	96.35	59.80	36.55	450.26
      Gary	Carter  	Y	4	128.59	76.42	52.17	138.19	87.46	50.73	98.07	53.89	44.18	445.37
      Yogi	Berra   	Y	5	121.86	87.80	34.06	143.17	106.87	36.30	88.71	62.33	26.37	443.60
      Ivan	Rodriguez	A	6	112.25	58.59	53.66	139.38	79.45	59.93	107.08	53.07	54.01	435.15
      Gabby	Hartnett	Y	7	111.36	75.29	36.07	140.47	99.68	40.79	86.58	61.10	25.49	431.30
      Bill	Dickey  	Y	8	99.12	71.82	27.30	130.91	97.22	33.69	81.82	63.27	18.54	404.77
      Mickey	Cochrane	Y	9	93.54	66.97	26.57	135.36	97.92	37.44	84.85	61.28	23.57	404.21
      Buck	Ewing   	Y	10	96.30	73.91	22.26	143.07	110.06	32.88	108.74	83.85	24.76	398.76
      Ted	Simmons 	N	11	108.45	86.17	22.28	118.58	94.40	24.17	74.06	59.65	14.41	386.18
      Gene	Tenace  	N	12	86.90	71.33	15.57	134.28	108.76	25.53	97.77	80.09	17.67	380.03
      Joe	Torre   	N	13	110.64	88.71	21.93	126.32	104.56	21.76	94.97	65.48	29.49	374.04
      Thurman	Munson  	N	14	85.66	48.90	36.76	126.64	77.73	48.91	86.55	50.37	36.18	368.42
      Bill	Freehan 	N	15	88.07	62.34	25.73	118.02	86.64	31.38	80.17	59.73	20.45	362.39
      Roger	Bresnahan	Y	16	75.08	61.40	13.27	123.19	97.56	25.22	89.02	73.67	14.94	353.95
      Wally	Schang  	N	17	80.77	63.18	17.59	116.81	91.46	25.35	77.97	61.58	16.40	348.24
      Roy	Campanella	Y	18	67.59	47.12	20.47	118.58	84.11	34.47	80.00	63.44	16.56	344.04
      Darrell	Porter  	N	19	78.59	56.81	21.78	113.75	82.33	31.42	70.43	53.78	16.65	339.89
      Mickey	Tettleton	N	20	69.84	58.26	11.58	118.47	90.68	27.79	78.71	64.47	14.23	335.92
      Lance	Parrish 	N	21	90.28	47.45	42.83	108.06	60.92	47.14	77.20	40.74	36.47	334.43
      Sherm	Lollar  	N	22	76.70	47.60	29.10	112.47	73.61	38.86	73.68	46.91	26.78	329.14
      Jason	Kendall 	N	23	66.69	47.07	19.62	113.21	80.36	32.85	70.28	55.87	14.41	321.78
      Charlie	Bennett 	N	24	60.55	39.10	21.45	116.28	78.09	38.19	79.21	55.20	24.01	318.08
      Ernie	Lombardi	Y	25	67.52	54.80	12.72	104.23	81.57	22.66	64.65	55.22	9.43	313.04
      
      First Basemen													
      First	Last    	HOF	Rank	CAREER	Off	Def	RATE	Off	Def	MASTERY	Off	Def	TOTAL
      Lou	Gehrig  	Y	1	208.34	187.89	20.45	209.37	190.04	19.33	166.70	155.76	10.94	584.41
      Jimmie	Foxx    	Y	2	188.40	160.04	27.08	189.18	162.13	25.77	156.18	130.38	23.63	533.76
      Frank	Thomas  	A	3	169.70	165.60	4.10	189.71	175.24	14.47	164.01	159.53	4.48	523.42
      Mark	McGwire 	N	4	146.12	135.11	11.01	163.93	149.93	14.00	154.38	146.62	7.76	464.43
      Dan	Brouthers	Y	5	150.68	136.68	14.40	168.80	151.55	17.65	136.00	122.97	13.42	455.48
      Roger	Connor  	Y	6	159.43	129.92	29.51	166.52	137.29	29.23	128.69	101.41	27.28	454.64
      Johnny	Mize    	Y	7	146.33	128.31	18.02	166.61	144.96	21.65	135.25	119.78	15.47	448.18
      Dick	Allen   	N	8	138.37	122.10	16.27	159.79	139.11	20.67	142.16	121.43	20.73	440.32
      Willie	McCovey 	Y	9	155.67	139.85	15.82	156.75	141.84	14.91	121.74	112.03	9.72	434.17
      Jeff	Bagwell 	A	10	153.83	133.15	20.68	157.71	137.53	20.18	109.78	94.77	15.01	421.32
      Rafael	Palmeiro	A	11	167.52	143.52	24.00	155.49	133.23	22.26	96.78	78.81	17.98	419.80
      Harmon	Killebrew	Y	12	149.50	131.81	17.69	151.67	132.88	18.79	111.90	89.99	21.91	413.07
      Hank	Greenberg	Y	13	122.64	103.65	18.99	153.92	128.38	25.54	133.78	111.23	22.55	410.34
      Harry	Stovey  	N	14	126.93	103.80	23.24	152.60	123.87	28.84	129.07	98.86	30.31	408.59
      Eddie	Murray  	Y	15	168.65	148.92	19.73	147.05	131.08	15.98	91.86	82.34	9.52	407.57
      Cap	Anson   	Y	16	148.47	126.36	21.68	144.95	125.65	18.87	103.36	84.72	17.79	396.78
      Todd	Helton  	A	17	104.18	83.47	20.71	146.31	116.42	29.89	146.05	116.43	29.63	396.54
      Jason	Giambi  	A	18	106.91	97.88	9.03	143.82	124.58	19.23	141.28	131.62	9.67	392.01
      Fred	McGriff 	A	19	144.19	127.16	17.03	141.36	126.09	15.27	99.49	88.14	11.35	385.04
      Will	Clark   	N	20	132.96	113.61	19.35	145.43	124.49	20.95	105.92	90.48	15.44	384.32
      Jim	Thome   	A	21	118.37	106.35	12.02	142.70	125.11	17.59	122.32	107.12	15.20	383.39
      Norm	Cash    	N	22	129.92	104.61	25.31	144.91	117.85	27.06	102.03	81.53	20.50	376.85
      Keith	Hernandez	N	23	131.92	99.83	32.09	141.72	109.00	32.73	100.71	71.01	29.70	374.35
      Frank	Chance  	Y	24	97.41	81.45	15.96	137.46	112.49	24.97	123.95	105.28	18.67	358.82
      Bill	Terry   	Y	25	113.56	92.35	21.21	136.09	110.65	25.44	104.88	79.98	24.90	354.53
      
      Second Basemen													
      First	Last    	HOF	Rank	CAREER	Off	Def	RATE	Off	Def	MASTERY	Off	Def	TOTAL
      Rogers	Hornsby 	Y	1	219.49	188.69	30.80	220.93	192.02	28.92	197.22	171.26	25.96	637.65
      Eddie	Collins 	Y	2	250.74	189.73	61.01	224.79	176.84	47.95	150.30	114.57	35.73	625.83
      Nap	Lajoie  	Y	3	211.82	154.22	57.60	200.22	151.33	48.88	158.45	119.09	39.36	570.49
      Joe	Morgan  	Y	4	215.36	175.97	39.39	198.62	167.55	31.07	148.59	126.09	22.49	562.57
      Rod	Carew   	Y	5	170.86	143.45	27.41	164.41	139.97	24.44	135.98	104.84	31.14	471.25
      Charlie	Gehringer	Y	6	165.24	118.01	47.23	159.98	116.51	43.47	99.48	72.23	27.25	424.70
      Frankie	Frisch  	Y	7	156.73	99.32	57.41	151.61	98.69	52.93	110.13	59.55	50.58	418.47
      Bobby	Grich   	N	8	140.72	90.18	50.54	154.09	101.45	52.64	119.09	68.31	50.78	413.91
      Bid	McPhee  	Y	9	149.51	82.52	66.99	150.75	86.26	64.49	102.07	50.43	51.64	402.34
      Lou	Whitaker	N	10	149.43	99.74	49.69	147.07	99.95	47.12	92.81	63.62	29.19	389.31
      Roberto	Alomar  	A	11	148.77	110.40	38.37	141.82	107.87	33.96	91.83	71.17	20.66	382.42
      Jackie	Robinson	Y	12	110.00	80.12	29.88	148.38	106.71	41.67	123.89	89.02	34.87	382.27
      Ryne	Sandberg	Y	13	138.36	95.85	42.51	141.77	100.40	41.37	95.68	67.72	27.95	375.81
      Craig	Biggio  	A	14	143.40	111.79	31.61	133.65	107.42	26.23	93.79	65.20	28.59	370.84
      Johnny	Evers   	Y	15	120.18	72.17	48.01	143.28	89.87	53.41	103.76	63.25	40.50	367.21
      Billy	Herman  	Y	16	125.85	76.80	49.05	136.56	85.41	51.15	92.81	54.76	38.05	355.22
      Cupid	Childs  	N	17	107.69	73.15	34.54	138.67	93.71	44.96	105.65	73.39	32.26	352.02
      Larry	Doyle   	N	18	114.95	91.52	23.43	137.87	108.10	29.77	93.66	74.59	19.07	346.48
      Willie	Randolph	N	19	128.82	78.45	50.37	130.59	81.86	48.74	83.43	52.62	30.81	342.85
      Nellie	Fox     	Y	20	128.88	68.42	60.46	121.65	66.23	55.42	82.02	42.82	39.20	332.55
      Bobby	Doerr   	Y	21	112.61	65.20	47.41	128.25	77.69	50.56	89.62	53.74	35.88	330.48
      Joe	Gordon  	N	22	100.87	56.84	44.03	131.95	78.78	53.17	93.99	50.86	43.13	326.81
      Chuck	Knoblauch	N	23	100.63	73.49	27.14	126.75	90.05	36.70	99.39	71.55	27.84	326.77
      Del	Pratt   	N	24	107.75	66.23	41.52	127.00	81.37	45.63	87.23	49.38	37.86	321.99
      Lonny	Frey    	N	25	91.68	57.89	33.79	126.23	80.68	45.55	91.37	50.44	40.93	309.28
      
      Third Basemen													
      First	Last    	HOF	Rank	CAREER	Off	Def	RATE	Off	Def	MASTERY	Off	Def	TOTAL
      Mike	Schmidt 	Y	1	185.80	146.65	39.15	181.75	146.26	35.49	127.88	99.34	28.54	495.42
      George	Brett   	Y	2	184.76	153.09	31.67	173.23	142.80	30.42	131.92	103.46	28.46	489.90
      Eddie	Mathews 	Y	3	172.00	147.42	24.58	168.02	146.78	21.24	123.42	106.94	16.48	463.44
      Paul	Molitor 	Y	4	168.64	151.87	16.77	162.39	138.19	24.20	108.15	90.69	17.46	439.18
      Wade	Boggs   	Y	5	164.54	136.49	28.04	157.59	131.80	25.77	111.75	96.16	15.58	433.88
      Edgar	Martinez	A	6	136.41	130.84	5.57	144.83	139.25	5.57	115.97	110.32	5.65	397.21
      Frank	Baker   	Y	7	114.04	84.63	29.41	140.78	105.79	34.99	112.09	84.72	27.37	366.91
      Ron	Santo   	N	8	133.59	97.11	36.48	135.38	100.94	34.44	97.32	68.35	28.96	366.29
      Darrell	Evans   	N	9	137.77	109.00	28.77	130.49	104.33	26.15	87.95	60.10	27.85	356.21
      Stan	Hack    	N	10	119.62	97.33	22.29	130.79	106.79	24.00	90.32	70.95	19.36	340.72
      John	McGraw  	N	11	85.48	74.62	10.86	130.97	106.78	24.19	113.27	101.01	12.26	329.72
      Brooks	Robinson	Y	12	135.52	82.91	52.61	114.48	71.62	42.85	79.14	48.07	31.07	329.14
      Jimmy	Collins 	Y	13	102.48	65.85	36.63	121.93	81.99	39.94	97.19	59.58	37.61	321.61
      Bob	Elliott 	N	14	109.44	87.59	21.85	123.15	99.05	24.10	84.82	63.05	21.77	317.42
      Toby	Harrah  	N	15	110.09	90.55	19.54	118.22	98.37	19.85	88.59	67.24	21.35	316.91
      Graig	Nettles 	N	16	121.88	83.78	38.10	115.81	82.37	33.45	78.55	50.75	27.80	316.25
      Heinie	Groh    	N	17	99.67	71.28	28.39	124.01	90.07	33.94	91.98	62.68	29.30	315.66
      Bobby	Bonilla 	N	18	104.63	84.34	20.34	119.00	95.39	23.65	87.75	63.93	23.87	311.37
      Buddy	Bell    	N	19	115.24	76.19	39.05	111.29	76.13	35.15	80.90	49.43	31.47	307.42
      Heinie	Zimmerman	N	20	85.55	63.40	22.15	121.80	90.38	31.42	97.21	73.09	24.13	304.57
      Sal	Bando   	N	21	104.98	84.76	20.07	117.44	95.60	21.68	80.94	68.58	12.12	303.36
      Scott	Rolen   	A	22	83.27	57.56	25.71	124.11	88.46	35.65	94.61	63.03	31.58	301.99
      Chipper	Jones   	A	23	92.13	83.87	8.26	120.33	105.22	15.11	89.53	79.61	9.91	301.98
      Ken	Boyer   	N	24	105.32	76.10	29.22	117.42	87.07	30.35	78.61	54.40	24.22	301.35
      Pie	Traynor 	Y	25	101.66	66.60	35.06	113.41	77.41	36.00	79.94	49.33	30.61	295.00
      
      Shortstops													
      First	Last    	HOF	Rank	CAREER	LONGEVITY	Def	RATE	Off	EFFICIENCY	MASTERY	MASTERY	MASTERY	TOTAL
      Honus	Wagner  	Y	1	273.56	213.05	60.52	249.95	202.03	47.93	221.21	172.59	48.63	744.73
      Robin	Yount   	Y	2	179.82	129.02	50.80	154.17	114.77	39.39	133.96	84.48	49.48	467.94
      George	Davis   	Y	3	170.64	122.75	47.98	163.77	121.79	42.06	122.89	73.10	49.87	457.29
      Arky	Vaughan 	Y	4	134.77	105.08	29.69	154.39	119.52	34.88	109.32	83.37	25.95	398.48
      Alex	Rodriguez	A	5	118.50	96.02	22.48	152.18	118.92	33.27	121.22	97.96	23.26	391.91
      Luke	Appling 	Y	6	148.68	98.57	50.11	141.36	97.03	44.32	93.85	60.30	33.55	383.88
      Ozzie	Smith   	Y	7	146.96	73.47	73.49	133.62	68.54	65.08	97.34	44.87	52.47	377.92
      Bill	Dahlen  	Y	8	149.05	92.86	56.19	138.26	90.43	47.83	90.51	57.02	33.49	377.82
      Ernie	Banks   	Y	9	142.37	106.22	36.15	134.08	103.72	30.36	101.20	65.04	36.16	377.65
      Barry	Larkin  	A	10	136.82	92.99	43.83	143.02	98.96	44.05	93.23	66.36	26.87	373.07
      Cal	Ripken Jr.	A	11	154.77	102.04	52.73	120.60	83.78	36.82	92.56	57.15	35.41	367.93
      Joe	Cronin  	Y	12	128.01	83.31	44.70	136.36	90.67	45.69	93.64	57.08	36.56	358.01
      Lou	Boudreau	Y	13	110.12	68.74	41.38	136.98	87.63	49.35	100.96	62.94	38.02	348.06
      Alan	Trammell	N	14	123.77	85.98	37.79	125.75	89.94	35.81	93.49	72.30	21.19	343.01
      Jack	Glasscock	N	15	108.66	67.43	41.33	129.02	83.04	46.08	99.75	61.17	38.68	337.43
      Hughie	Jennings	Y	16	88.37	58.00	30.37	127.98	85.68	42.30	117.52	73.46	44.06	333.88
      Joe	Tinker  	Y	17	107.81	55.55	52.26	130.17	73.63	56.53	89.58	47.42	42.16	327.55
      Herman	Long    	N	18	113.78	62.50	51.28	125.38	72.07	53.31	87.58	50.02	37.55	326.73
      Pee Wee	Reese   	Y	19	119.02	71.35	47.67	120.87	74.71	46.16	85.61	46.90	38.71	325.51
      Bobby	Wallace 	Y	20	118.82	67.71	45.92	115.39	70.17	40.03	88.73	45.90	37.63	322.94
      Dave	Bancroft	Y	21	104.86	59.78	45.08	118.26	70.90	47.36	85.36	46.96	38.40	308.48
      Tony	Fernandez	N	22	106.22	60.60	45.62	114.56	68.25	46.31	86.98	42.24	44.74	307.76
      Joe	Sewell  	Y	23	103.98	68.02	35.96	116.75	78.60	38.15	85.49	47.75	37.74	306.22
      Luis	Aparicio	Y	24	125.24	68.43	56.81	108.05	60.64	47.42	71.53	36.65	34.88	304.82
      Vern	Stephens	N	25	96.53	70.18	26.35	120.58	87.67	32.91	84.92	60.59	24.33	302.03
      
      Left Fielders													
      First	Last    	HOF	Rank	CAREER	Off	Def	RATE	Off	Def	MASTERY	Off	Def	TOTAL
      Barry	Bonds   	A	1	292.47	258.57	33.90	275.35	248.54	26.81	237.36	216.34	21.02	805.18
      Ted	Williams	Y	2	260.70	238.52	22.18	262.62	239.84	22.77	238.49	221.95	16.54	761.80
      Rickey	Henderson	A	3	285.40	237.42	47.98	255.58	216.23	39.35	214.37	174.18	40.19	755.35
      Stan	Musial  	Y	4	265.02	224.91	40.11	239.14	207.73	31.41	206.23	144.16	62.06	710.39
      Carl	Yastrzemski	Y	5	205.31	164.91	40.40	171.46	139.63	31.83	128.41	88.62	39.79	505.18
      Ed	Delahanty	Y	6	161.46	135.86	25.60	173.63	146.06	27.57	165.23	133.77	31.46	500.32
      Tim	Raines  	N	7	165.69	135.65	30.04	162.84	133.38	29.46	114.81	91.21	23.60	443.34
      Pete	Rose    	N	8	191.43	153.56	37.87	136.57	116.44	20.14	107.65	61.41	46.24	435.65
      Sherry	Magee   	N	9	148.16	120.58	27.58	157.10	129.79	27.31	124.30	96.97	27.34	429.57
      Fred	Clarke  	Y	10	162.29	127.63	34.66	161.02	128.80	32.22	105.08	81.76	23.32	428.40
      Willie	Stargell	Y	11	146.72	129.78	16.94	153.75	135.95	17.80	127.16	103.37	23.79	427.63
      Al	Simmons 	Y	12	144.20	111.18	33.02	145.46	114.25	31.21	130.88	84.90	45.98	420.55
      Goose	Goslin  	Y	13	153.12	119.10	34.02	152.46	120.23	32.23	112.86	79.56	33.31	418.44
      Joe	Jackson 	N	14	119.68	101.68	18.00	156.15	128.98	27.17	140.86	118.47	22.39	416.69
      Jesse	Burkett 	Y	15	152.99	130.24	23.53	154.39	132.74	22.43	105.47	88.36	17.89	412.85
      Joe	Kelley  	Y	16	133.49	105.51	27.98	148.19	117.42	30.77	122.24	89.01	33.23	403.93
      Jimmy	Sheckard	N	17	141.84	101.71	40.13	146.48	107.30	39.18	109.89	71.00	38.89	398.21
      Billy	Williams	Y	18	149.82	127.75	22.07	144.58	124.46	20.12	94.18	75.33	18.85	388.59
      Zack	Wheat   	Y	19	145.89	113.84	32.05	142.64	113.87	28.78	94.24	69.99	24.25	382.77
      Jose	Cruz    	N	20	132.41	95.64	36.77	138.51	102.41	36.10	107.42	67.23	40.20	378.34
      George	Burns   	N	21	122.81	94.98	27.83	136.31	106.06	30.26	112.92	81.55	31.37	372.04
      Ralph	Kiner   	Y	22	107.70	95.01	12.69	139.01	118.72	20.28	125.12	110.29	14.83	371.83
      Augie	Galan   	N	23	112.18	88.98	23.20	138.28	107.96	30.31	120.10	86.08	34.01	370.55
      Pete	Browning	N	24	101.20	87.53	13.73	141.92	117.22	24.75	125.72	111.35	14.44	368.84
      Lou	Brock   	Y	25	144.10	115.36	28.74	132.29	107.54	24.76	86.12	62.79	23.34	362.52
      
      Center Fielders													
      First	Last    	HOF	Rank	CAREER	Off	Def	RATE	Off	Def	MASTERY	Off	Def	TOTAL
      Ty	Cobb    	Y	1	312.85	265.20	47.72	277.72	245.74	32.05	247.87	201.09	46.85	838.44
      Tris	Speaker 	Y	2	279.44	200.48	78.96	254.37	187.89	66.48	180.00	129.03	50.97	713.81
      Willie	Mays    	Y	3	277.64	213.52	64.12	247.58	197.73	49.85	160.07	129.61	30.47	685.29
      Mickey	Mantle  	Y	4	233.02	207.43	25.59	231.28	208.01	23.27	197.15	179.45	17.70	661.45
      Billy	Hamilton	Y	5	168.96	137.05	31.91	190.54	152.35	38.19	178.57	132.80	45.76	538.07
      Joe	DiMaggio	Y	6	163.33	127.30	36.03	182.50	142.05	40.45	147.84	115.60	32.23	493.67
      Max	Carey   	Y	7	172.70	103.89	68.81	161.07	99.01	62.06	126.17	59.25	66.93	459.94
      Richie	Ashburn 	Y	8	160.41	100.64	59.77	160.50	102.31	58.19	114.31	62.67	51.64	435.22
      Hugh	Duffy   	Y	9	133.68	100.87	32.81	151.13	114.64	36.49	129.87	87.12	42.74	414.68
      Ken	Griffey Jr.	A	10	143.17	120.34	22.83	155.84	129.73	26.11	105.91	92.75	13.16	404.92
      Duke	Snider  	Y	11	139.03	114.07	24.96	153.81	125.24	28.57	110.17	90.43	19.75	403.01
      Cesar	Cedeno  	N	12	134.00	97.99	36.01	147.52	109.82	37.70	115.70	84.43	31.27	397.22
      Jimmy	Wynn    	N	13	130.82	103.37	27.45	146.19	115.97	30.21	115.00	85.29	29.71	392.01
      Brett	Butler   	N	14	145.35	100.61	44.74	147.47	103.49	43.98	96.94	65.30	31.64	389.76
      Tommy	Leach   	N	15	130.72	84.07	46.65	134.82	90.08	44.74	121.06	59.40	61.66	386.60
      Dale	Murphy  	N	16	130.74	97.14	33.60	135.06	103.22	31.84	117.21	79.67	37.55	383.02
      Fred	Lynn    	N	17	124.65	99.30	25.35	141.47	112.46	29.02	116.58	91.45	25.13	382.70
      Cy	Seymour 	N	18	109.93	61.45	34.32	141.07	85.49	41.41	131.36	74.98	42.23	382.36
      Jimmy	Ryan    	N	19	126.00	94.24	31.12	130.55	99.90	30.01	107.14	67.63	38.07	363.68
      Mike	Griffin 	N	20	116.34	83.47	32.87	143.90	103.54	40.36	98.04	68.69	29.35	358.27
      Amos	Otis    	N	21	121.73	84.66	37.07	135.16	95.77	39.39	101.12	69.57	31.55	358.01
      Jim	Edmonds 	A	22	102.18	75.41	26.77	139.12	101.25	37.87	112.26	79.81	32.45	353.56
      Andruw	Jones   	A	23	94.92	42.89	52.03	137.29	72.81	64.48	121.02	46.95	74.07	353.24
      Edd	Roush   	Y	24	122.19	93.78	28.41	136.25	105.46	30.79	94.67	74.53	20.13	353.10
      Vada	Pinson  	N	25	134.59	91.64	42.95	126.41	89.09	37.32	91.55	53.94	37.60	352.54
      
      Right Fielders													
      First	Last    	HOF	Rank	CAREER	Off	Def	RATE	Off	Def	MASTERY	Off	Def	TOTAL
      Babe	Ruth    	Y	1	323.43	264.52	31.08	316.42	260.61	27.98	318.53	245.05	40.25	958.39
      Hank	Aaron   	Y	2	267.08	222.69	44.39	229.43	197.73	31.70	150.12	116.15	33.97	646.62
      Frank	Robinson	Y	3	219.89	184.72	35.17	204.73	173.68	31.05	151.62	110.40	41.21	576.23
      Mel	Ott     	Y	4	218.06	199.65	18.41	202.57	191.21	11.36	139.94	130.40	9.54	560.56
      Al	Kaline  	Y	5	196.48	147.22	49.26	180.09	137.10	42.99	124.93	83.78	41.15	501.50
      Reggie	Jackson 	Y	6	182.43	156.24	26.19	174.47	147.27	27.19	126.68	106.97	19.71	483.57
      Paul	Waner   	Y	7	175.87	135.57	40.30	167.34	130.75	36.59	109.69	82.49	27.21	452.90
      Roberto	Clemente	Y	8	162.75	114.21	48.54	156.26	112.87	43.40	117.17	76.15	41.02	436.18
      Tony	Gwynn   	Y	9	163.60	128.25	35.35	159.58	126.78	32.80	111.36	78.01	33.35	434.55
      Larry	Walker  	A	10	138.95	115.70	23.25	157.92	130.50	27.42	135.56	112.70	22.86	432.43
      Harry	Heilmann	Y	11	148.41	134.33	14.08	155.32	140.92	14.41	118.92	105.56	13.36	422.65
      Gary	Sheffield	A	12	144.90	127.90	17.00	154.88	136.01	18.86	121.67	103.24	18.43	421.45
      Sam	Crawford	Y	13	159.49	132.45	27.04	150.18	128.69	21.49	98.97	75.93	23.04	408.63
      Reggie	Smith   	N	14	134.62	100.96	33.66	149.38	113.31	36.07	123.77	79.00	44.77	407.77
      Sammy	Sosa    	A	15	136.46	104.75	31.71	141.53	110.97	30.56	115.46	87.87	27.59	393.45
      Dave	Winfield	Y	16	159.95	133.72	26.23	140.54	118.78	21.76	92.12	70.31	21.81	392.61
      Andre	Dawson  	N	17	142.28	102.74	39.54	134.55	97.87	36.68	113.26	60.32	52.95	390.10
      Willie	Keeler  	Y	18	141.44	108.88	32.56	143.59	111.45	32.14	97.24	72.88	24.36	382.27
      King	Kelly   	Y	19	112.00	88.98	23.48	142.31	111.43	31.33	124.68	94.54	30.50	378.98
      Elmer	Flick   	Y	20	117.78	97.10	20.68	147.76	119.81	27.94	112.31	92.58	19.73	377.85
      Jack	Clark   	N	21	122.57	104.06	18.51	139.49	115.30	24.19	111.78	84.70	27.09	373.85
      Dwight	Evans   	N	22	143.05	112.51	30.54	137.78	108.91	28.88	92.11	70.05	22.06	372.93
      Bobby	Bonds   	N	23	128.89	100.49	28.40	145.02	112.59	32.43	94.53	68.19	26.34	368.45
      Sam	Rice    	Y	24	138.52	95.92	41.92	133.84	94.36	38.80	95.55	51.51	43.36	367.91
      Manny	Ramirez 	A	25	109.51	99.99	9.52	141.73	121.68	20.04	115.87	104.86	11.01	367.11
      
      Right Handed Starters													
      First	Last    	HOF	Rank	CAREER			RATE			MASTERY			TOTAL
      Walter	Johnson 	Y	1	178.51			153.32			127.89			459.72
      Cy	Young   	Y	2	197.56			152.42			105.24			455.23
      Roger	Clemens 	A	3	145.00			138.27			146.70			429.98
      Pete	Alexander	Y	5	152.11			136.53			102.13			390.76
      Christy	Mathewson	Y	6	136.87			126.46			113.74			377.07
      Greg	Maddux  	A	7	118.90			116.97			124.66			360.53
      Pedro	Martinez	A	8	87.13			111.13			144.28			342.54
      Tom	Seaver  	Y	11	121.85			112.08			93.42			327.35
      Dazzy	Vance   	Y	12	86.29			100.67			104.39			291.35
      Tim	Keefe   	Y	13	115.87			103.01			71.48			290.36
      Ed	Walsh   	Y	14	89.63			104.71			93.51			287.85
      Dennis	Eckersley	Y	15	88.59			98.69			95.18			282.46
      Kid	Nichols 	Y	16	115.00			101.96			65.38			282.34
      Bert	Blyleven	N	18	108.52			94.84			74.56			277.92
      Fergie	Jenkins 	Y	19	106.28			99.66			71.70			277.64
      Nolan	Ryan    	Y	21	114.41			96.03			62.87			273.31
      Bob	Gibson  	Y	22	94.13			95.89			77.11			267.13
      Amos	Rusie   	Y	25	95.07			99.65			67.06			261.78
      Gaylord	Perry   	Y	26	105.23			86.53			69.27			261.03
      Stan	Coveleski	Y	27	77.10			90.28			88.26			255.64
      Babe	Adams   	N	28	75.47			89.84			89.73			255.04
      3Finger	Brown   	Y	29	76.29			88.56			87.39			252.23
      John	Clarkson	Y	30	95.79			89.59			64.49			249.87
      Addie	Joss    	Y	31	68.08			92.33			87.95			248.36
      Juan	Marichal	Y	32	77.59			84.83			84.37			246.80
      
      Left Handed Starters													
      First	Last    	HOF	Rank	CAREER			RATE			MASTERY			TOTAL
      Lefty	Grove   	Y	4	130.62			131.58			137.70			399.90
      Randy	Johnson 	A	9	102.67			111.49			119.37			333.53
      Carl	Hubbell 	Y	10	104.49			111.15			116.30			331.94
      Sandy	Koufax  	Y	17	73.47			97.05			110.76			281.28
      Rube	Waddell 	Y	20	82.04			96.36			96.50			274.90
      Hal	Newhouser	Y	23	79.61			93.78			93.65			267.04
      Warren	Spahn   	Y	24	109.47			93.28			62.43			265.17
      Steve	Carlton 	Y	37	97.56			80.51			60.53			238.60
      Eddie	Plank   	Y	39	93.19			86.72			54.16			234.07
      Lefty	Gomez   	Y	40	61.41			82.82			89.68			233.91
      Ted	Breitenstein	N	43	70.82			85.86			67.75			224.43
      Noodles	Hahn    	N	50	58.32			85.88			71.64			215.84
      Harry	Brecheen	N	62	50.11			79.54			71.93			201.57
      Johnny	Allen   	N	63	46.53			75.25			78.38			200.16
      Billy	Pierce  	N	67	64.60			74.67			59.76			199.03
      Vida	Blue    	N	68	61.99			71.81			65.03			198.82
      Toad	Ramsey  	N	70	51.56			77.72			68.37			197.65
      Sid	Fernandez	N	72	48.11			78.50			70.82			197.43
      Eppa	Rixey   	Y	75	77.15			70.54			46.57			194.26
      Wilbur	Wood    	N	83	54.06			72.43			64.40			190.89
      Doc	White   	N	105	53.57			67.14			62.36			183.06
      Frank	Tanana  	N	108	66.69			64.19			50.86			181.74
      Herb	Pennock 	Y	111	59.73			65.29			55.90			180.91
      Mark	Langston	N	131	54.25			68.76			49.33			172.34
      Whitey	Ford    	Y	132	57.09			69.18			45.86			172.13
      All-Time Defensive Team:

      C - Ivan Rodriguez
      1B- Keith Hernandez
      2B- Bid McPhee
      3B- Brooks Robinson
      SS- Ozzie Smith
      LF- Rickey Henderson
      CF- Max Carey
      RF- Al Kaline
      P - Greg Maddux

      Second team is:

      C - Gary Carter
      1B- Pete O'Brien
      2B- Bill Mazeroski
      3B- Clete Boyer
      SS- Honus Wagner
      LF- Jimmy Sheckard
      CF- Tris Speaker
      RF- Roberto Clemente
      P - Bob Caruthers

      Now I'm going to bump this thread and I demand an explanation for this outrage. OK. I apologize. I'm sorry. I will never do that again. Please forgive me. Still buds, old friend of mine?
      Last edited by Bill Burgess; 08-03-2007, 03:00 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Greatest Position Players:

        1.Ruth
        2.Cobb
        3.Williams
        4.Wagner
        5.Hornsby
        6.Bonds
        7.Mantle
        8.Mays
        9.Musial
        10. Gehrig
        11.Speaker
        12.Aaron
        13.Schmidt
        14.Collins
        15. A-Rod
        16.Henderson
        17. Morgan
        18.F.Robinson
        19. Ott
        20.Mathews

        Greatest Pitchers:

        1.W.Johnson
        2.Clemens
        3.Young
        4.Maddux
        5.Grove
        6.Alexander
        7.Seaver
        8.Mathewson
        9.R.Johnson
        10.P.Martinez
        11.Gibson
        12.Feller
        13.Spahn
        14.Hubbell
        15.Carlton

        All Time Defensive Team:

        C- Schalk
        1B- Keith Hernandez
        2B- Mazzeroski
        3B- Schmidt/Robinson, too close to call
        SS- Smith
        LF- Yaz
        CF- Speaker
        RF- Kaline
        P- Kaat
        Last edited by Murderers Row; 12-16-2006, 03:19 PM.
        Ball game over. World Series over! Yankees win thaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Yankees win!

        Comment


        • #5
          best team ever roster of 25:

          C: Josh Gibson
          C: Biz Mackey
          1B: Lou Gehrig
          1B: Buck Leonard
          2B: Roger Hornsby
          2B: Charlie Gehringer
          SS: Honus Wagner
          SS: Pop Lloyd
          3B: Ray Dandridge
          3B: Mike Schimdt
          RF: Babe Ruth
          CF: Oscar Charleston
          CF: Willie Mays
          LF: Ted Williams
          LF: Cool Papa Bell (over Cobb if only cuz the guy is such a jagoff)
          SP: Satchel Paige
          SP: Walter Johnson
          SP: Christy Mathewson
          SP: Rube Foster
          SP: Sandy Koufax
          LHP: Warren Sphan
          MRP: Greg Maddux
          MRP: Roger Clemens
          SU: Eddie Cicotte (he's eligable for my list anyways, and I realize that Mad Dog and the Rocket and others are better, but the ability to throw a knuckler in between flamethrowers is invaluable)
          CP: Bob Feller
          Last edited by Bill Burgess; 07-12-2006, 04:26 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Opinions

            I have a tough time making an all time list. I find that I tend to give too much credit to players who I have actually seen in my lifetime. Whenever I rank a player from before my time, I feel like I am ranking him there because of how other feel about that particular player.

            ------------------
            Some of my favourite players:

            -Cal Ripken
            -Gregg Zaun
            -Darrin Fletcher
            -Walter Johnson
            -Otis Nixon
            -Carlos Delgado (while he was a Blue Jay)

            ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
            Last edited by Richmond Hill Phoenix; 11-18-2007, 10:00 PM.
            WAMCO!

            Comment


            • #7
              You asked for newcomers, so here I am. All-Time A and B, All-Time Defensive team, and a few opinions. I will try to add other ifnormation later.


              All-Time Team A

              1B: Gehrig
              2B: Hornsby
              3B: Schmidt
              SS: A-Rod
              LF: Ruth
              CF: Mays
              RF: Aaron
              C: Bench
              P: Johnson


              All-Time Team B

              1B: Greenberg
              2B: Lajoie
              3B: Matthews
              SS: Wagner
              LF: Williams
              CF: Cobb
              RF: Musial
              C: Berra
              P: Koufax


              All-Time Defensive Team

              1B: Hernandez (didn’t like him, but he was smooth as silk)
              2B: Maz (no one turned the double play better)
              3B: Boyer (as in Clete, better than Brooks, brother Ken, and Santo, but never got the recognition)
              SS: Smith (Ozzie could dive and get to his feet quicker than anyone)
              OF: Carey (I wish I could have seen him play. What impressive stats)
              OF: Ashburn (maybe the best I ever saw)
              OF: Mays (incredible skills, and what a jump he got on the ball, although Flood came close)
              C: Schalk (relying on the opinions of others on this one)
              P: Gibson (Kaat and Maddox have more hardware, but Gibson gets the nod)

              Opinions:
              Baseball’s Golden Age was the 50’s and 60’s.

              The Hall of Fame overrates hitting, and discounts defense. There are a ton of players who were great fielders and very good hitters who will never make the Hall of Fame, yet all great hitters who were very good fielders are in.

              The DH is terrible. With that being said, baseball’s refusal to use the DH in the All-Star game is crazy.

              Ken Boyer was my favorite ball player. A great fielder and a very good (and clutch) hitter. Had all of the tools – hit for power, average, great speed for his size, strong arm, and a top grade glove man. He had some unusual batting feats: hit for the cycle twice (only Cardinal to do so) and once hit three inside-the-park- home runs in a three week time period. Sorry he seems to be forgotten by all except those who saw him play.

              If baseball does not fix the steroids/performance enhancement, it will die. Take blood samples annually and urine samples monthly. Test them, freeze them and test them again as new technologies evolve. If a player tests positive, 50 game suspension. If he does it again, 1 year suspension. If it happens again, you are gone. Same thing with testing samples taken 3-5-10 years ago. In addition, the team loses a player off the ML roster for the 50 game and 1 year suspensions. If the team is penalized, it will eliminate the “wink and nod” approach management has to performance enhancement.

              Cut back on the season. A looming issue in 2006 is the elimination of amphetamines because of drug testing. A lot of former players are saying that the only way they could get through the 162 game schedule was by using amphetamines. There are going to be some really tired ballplayers by year’s end. A solution to this is to cut back on the number of games played. Besides, God intended for the World Series to begin the first week of October, not end in November.
              Last edited by Bill Burgess; 07-12-2006, 04:29 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                I'll just start posting to these, then edit my post as I think of more, or change my mind, or get more time. These will be based mostly on stats, without worrying about steroids, or if they were in a better or worse era/ballpark/team/etc. I don't have any NeL players, or anything pre-1900, because I don't know enough about them.


                1. Top Players---Top Pitchers (at least top 20 for each. If you want to post more, that's great.)

                Barry Bonds
                Babe Ruth
                Rogers Hornsby
                Ted Williams
                Mickey Mantle
                Lou Gehrig
                Jimmie Foxx
                Nap Lajoie
                Ty Cobb
                Babe Herman
                A-Rod
                Honus Wagner
                Lefty O'Doul
                Arky Vaughan
                Mays
                DiMaggio
                Chuck Klein

                Walter Johnson
                Christy Mathewson
                Bob Gibson
                3 Finger Brown
                Koufax
                Maddux
                Ed Walsh
                Grover Alexander
                Chief Bender
                Jack Pfiester
                Addie Joss
                Carl Lundgren
                Cy Young
                Jack Coombs
                Jack Taylor
                Rube Waddell
                Eddie Cicotte
                Harry Krause
                Orval Overall
                Joe Wood

                2. All-Time All-Star Teams, A & B

                1. Ted Williams (1941) - OF
                2. Rogers Hornsby (1922) - 2B
                3. Barry Bonds (2004) - DH
                4. Babe Ruth (1921) - OF
                5. Mickey Mantle (1956) - OF
                6. Lou Gehrig (1927) - 1B
                7. George Brett (1980) - 3B
                8. Arky Vaughan (1935) - SS
                9. Mike Piazza (1997) - C

                SP Walter Johnson (1913)
                SP Christy Mathewson (1909)
                SP Dutch Leonard (1914)
                SP Bob Gibson (1968)
                SP 3 Finger Brown (1906)

                RP Dennis Eckersley (1990)
                RP Eric Gagne (2003)
                RP Trevor Hoffman (1998)
                RP Rollie Fingers (1981)
                RP Billy Wagner (1999)


                1. Ty Cobb (1911) - RF
                2. Nap Lajoie (1901) - 2B
                3. Jimmie Foxx (1932) - 1B
                4. Babe Herman (1930) - DH
                5. Mays (1954) - CF
                6. Larry Walker (1997) - LF
                7. A-Rod (1996) - SS
                8. Bill Dickey (1936) - C
                9. Chipper Jones (2001) - 3B

                SP
                SP
                SP
                SP
                SP

                RP
                RP
                RP
                RP
                RP

                3. Top 20 at each position. This might be optional.

                4. Most committed opinions.

                The DH is a good thing. Go Edgar Martinez!
                Last edited by Wade8813; 02-14-2007, 10:43 AM.
                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDxgNjMTPIs

                Comment


                • #9
                  I'm writing it up as I post it, and will update it for the A/B teams later.
                  Bold=Negro leaguers
                  asterisk=pre-1900
                  Red=Active
                  50 posistion players:

                  1. Babe Ruth
                  2. Ty Cobb
                  3. Honus Wagner
                  4. Willie Mays
                  5. Barry Bonds
                  6. Ted Williams
                  7. Oscar Charleston
                  8. Tris Speaker
                  9. Mickey Mantle
                  10.Stan Musial
                  11.Josh Gibson
                  12.Rickey Henderson
                  13.Mike Schimdt
                  14.Henry Aaron
                  15.Pop Lloyd
                  16.Lou Gehrig
                  17.Joe Morgan
                  18.Eddie Collins
                  19.Frank Robinson
                  20.Rogers Hornsby
                  21.Joe DiMaggio
                  22.
                  23.Cristobal Torriente
                  24.Nap Lajoie
                  25.Martin Dihigo
                  26.Eddie Mathews
                  27.Turkey Stearnes
                  28.Cal Ripken Jr.
                  29.Jimmie Foxx
                  30.Dick Allen
                  31.Arky Vaughn
                  32.Frank Thomas
                  33.Reggie Jackson
                  34.Carl Yastrzemski
                  35.Mike Piazza
                  36.Johnny Bench
                  37.Pete Rose
                  38.Alex Rodriguez
                  39.George Brett
                  40.Mel Ott
                  41.Mule Suttles
                  42.Duke Snider
                  43.Cool Papa Bell
                  44.Ken Griffey Jr.
                  45.Jeff Bagwell
                  46.Johnny Bench
                  47.Ed Delahanty*
                  48.Sam Crawford
                  49.Buck Ewing*
                  50.Yogi Berra
                  C-10%
                  1b-10%
                  2b-10%
                  3b-8%
                  SS-12%
                  Lf-14%
                  Cf-20%
                  Rf-16%
                  ____________________________________

                  Top 20 Pitchers:

                  1. Walter Johnson
                  2. Roger Clemens
                  3. Lefty Grove
                  4. Peter Alexander
                  5. Tom Seaver
                  6. Smokey Joe Williams
                  7. Cy Young
                  8. Greg Maddux
                  9. Kid Nichols
                  10.Satchel Paige
                  11.Bob Gibson
                  12.Bob Feller
                  13.Christy Mathewson
                  14.Sandy Koufax
                  15.Steve Carlton
                  16.Robin Roberts
                  17.Carl Hubbell
                  18.Pedro Martinez
                  19.Gaylord Perry
                  20.Bullet Joe Rogan

                  Top 20 Catchers:

                  1. Josh Gibson
                  2. Yogi Berra
                  3. Mike Piazza
                  4. Johnny Bench
                  5. Buck Ewing
                  6. Mickey Cochrane
                  7. Gabby Hartnett
                  8. Carlton Fisk
                  9. Ivan Roddriguez
                  10.Bill Dickey
                  11.Louis Santop
                  12.Biz Mackay
                  13.Roy Campanella
                  14.Ted Simmons
                  15.Gary Carter
                  16.Joe Torre
                  17.Bill Freehan
                  18.Elston Howard
                  19.Thurman Munson
                  20.Bruce Petway

                  Top 20 1b

                  1. Lou Gehrig
                  2. Jimmie Foxx
                  3. Jeff Bagwell
                  4. Dick Allen
                  5. Cap Anson
                  6. Eddie Murray
                  7. Johnny Mize
                  8. Buck Leonard
                  9. Willie McCovey
                  10.Harmon Killebrew
                  11.Mark McGuire
                  12.Frank Thomas
                  13.Rafael Palmeiro
                  14.Tony Perez
                  15.Dan Brouthers
                  16.Orlando Cepeda
                  17.Will Clark
                  18.Don Mattingly
                  19.Norm Cash
                  20.Keith Hernandez

                  Top 20 2b

                  1. Joe Morgan
                  2. Rogers Hornsby
                  3. Eddie Collins
                  4. Jackie Robinson
                  5. Nap Lajoie
                  6. Charlie Gehringer
                  7. Ryan Sandburg
                  8. Rod Carew
                  9. Roberto Alomar
                  10.Craig Biggio
                  11.Frank Frisch
                  12.Bingo DeMoss
                  13.Larry Doyle
                  14.Bobby Doerr
                  15.Lou Whitaker
                  16.Billy Herman
                  17.Joe Gordon
                  18.Cupid Childs
                  19.Bobby Grich
                  20.Nellie Fox

                  Top 20 3b

                  1. Mike Schmidt
                  2. Eddie Mathews
                  3. George Brett
                  4. Wade Boggs
                  5. Stan Hack
                  6. Home Run Baker
                  7. Paul Molitor
                  8. Ron Santo
                  9. Ray Dandridge
                  10.Brooks Robinson
                  11.Graig Nettles
                  12.Ken Boyer
                  13.Sal Bando
                  14.John McGraw
                  15.Chipper Jones
                  16.Pie Traynor
                  17.Jimmy Collins
                  18.Robin Ventura
                  19.Judy Johnson
                  20.Ron Cey

                  Top 20 SS

                  1. Honus Wagner
                  2. Pop Lloyd
                  3. Arky Vaughan
                  4. Alex Rodriguez
                  5. Cal Ripken Jr.
                  6. Robin Yount
                  7. Barry Larkin
                  8. Willie Wells
                  9. Ernie Banks
                  10.Joe Cronin
                  11.Pee Wee Reese
                  12.Ozzie Smith
                  13.Alan Trammel
                  14.Derek Jeter
                  15.George Davis
                  16.Hugh Jennings
                  17.Lou Brodreau
                  18.Luke Appling
                  19.Vern Stephens
                  20.Phil Rizzuto

                  Top 20 Lf

                  1. Barry Bonds
                  2. Ted Williams
                  3. Stan Musial
                  4. Rickey Henderson
                  5. Turkey Stearnes
                  6. Carl Yaztremski
                  7. Ed Delahanty
                  8. Mule Suttles
                  9. Joe Jackson
                  10.Tim Raines
                  11.Al Simmons
                  12.Willie Stargell
                  13.Billy Williams
                  14.Minnie Minoso
                  15.Jesse Burkett
                  16.Lou Brock
                  17.Joe Medwick
                  18.Ralph Kiner
                  19.Albert Belle
                  20.Charles Keller

                  Top 20 Cf:
                  1. Ty Cobb
                  2. Willie Mays
                  3. Oscar Charleston
                  4. Tris Speaker
                  5. Mickey Mantle
                  6. Joe DiMaggio
                  7. Cristobal Torriente
                  8. Duke Snider
                  9. Cool Papa Bell
                  10.Ken Griffey Jr.
                  11.Billy Hamilton
                  12.Larry Doby
                  13.Sportswood Poles
                  14.Jimmy Wynn
                  15.Wally Berger
                  16.Kirby Puckett
                  17.Wally Berger
                  18.Bernie Williams
                  19.Earl Averill
                  20.Hack Wilson

                  Top 20 Rf
                  1. Babe Ruth
                  2. Henry Aaron
                  3. Frank Robinson
                  4. Martin Dihigo
                  5. Mel Ott
                  6. Pete Rose
                  7. Reggie Jackson
                  8. Sam Crawford
                  9. Tony Gwynn
                  10.Roberto Clemente
                  11.Paul Waner
                  12.Al Kaline
                  13.Willard Brown
                  14.Gary Sheffield
                  15.Dave Winfield
                  16.Dave Parker
                  17.King Kelly
                  18.Bobby Bonds
                  19.Harry Heilmann
                  20.Andre Dawson

                  _____________________



                  25 man roster (A team), Personality factored in. I have made my team, based on filling in roles, etc.

                  Lineup:
                  Lf:Ty Cobb
                  SS:Honus Wagner
                  Dh:Barry Bonds
                  Rf:Babe Ruth
                  Cf:Willie Mays
                  C:Josh Gibson
                  1b:Lou Gehrig
                  3b:Mike Schimidt
                  2b:Joe Morgan

                  Bench:

                  Util:Martin Dihigo
                  If:Eddie Collins
                  If:Pop Lloyd
                  Of/PH:Ted Williams
                  Of:Oscar Charleston
                  C:Biz Mackay-Not as good overall as Yogi, but the best defensive catcher in basball.

                  Pitching Staff:

                  SP:Walter Johnson(R)
                  SP:Peter Alexander(R)
                  SP:Roger Clemens(R)
                  SP:Greg Maddux(R)
                  SP:Warren Spahn(L)
                  Long Relief:Cy Young(R)
                  Relief:Smokey Joe Williams(R)
                  Relief:Tom Seaver(R)
                  SU:Mariano Rivera(R)
                  CL:Hoyt Wilhem(R)

                  Manager:Connie Mack-I considered John McGraw, but he would be terrible with laid-back guys like Warren Spahn and Babe Ruth.

                  People that would be on if they weren't a clubhouse problem:Lefty Grove, Rogers Hornsby.
                  Edit: Looking over it again, I see the Biggest problem on the team is the racism, Ty Cobb and Tris Speaker were racists. That is a bit of a problem, for I have Mays,Charleston,Gibson,Morgan,Dihigo,Mackay,Paige, and Mariano Rivera on the team. As Mr. James said: "Ty Cobb didn't invent racism, it was taught to him." I believe if both Cobb and Speaker were born in the Post-1970 they would have different feelings.

                  25 man roster (B team), Personality factored in.

                  Lineup:
                  Dh:Rickey Henderson
                  3b:Eddie Mathews
                  Rf:Mickey Mantle
                  Lf:Stan Musial
                  1b:Jimmie Foxx
                  Cf:Tris Speaker
                  SS:Arky Vaughan
                  C: Yogi Berra
                  2b:Nap Lajoie

                  Bench:

                  SS/3b:Alex Rodriguez
                  If:Jackie Robinson
                  Of:Hank Aaron
                  Of:Cristobal Torriente
                  C2/1b:Mike Piazza

                  Pitching Staff:

                  SP:Kid Nichols(R)
                  SP:Bob Gibson(R)
                  SP:Bob Feller(R)
                  SP:Satchel Paige(R)
                  SP:Sandy Koufax(L)
                  Relief:Steve Carlton(R)
                  Relief:Robin Roberts(R)
                  Relief:Christy Mathewson(R)
                  Relief:Pedro Martinez(R)
                  SU:Rich Gossage(R)
                  CP: Dennis Eckersley(R)

                  Manager:Casey Stengel

                  UPDATE -12/27/06

                  Most Commited Opinions

                  1. Babe is the best hitter, position player, and all-around player ever, career wise and maybe peak-wise, although Charleston may have been able to challenge him.
                  2.Mathews IS ahead of Brett.
                  3.Bonds is the best player in my lifetime as of now.
                  4.Manny will be a top 30 player.
                  5.A-Rod should get into top 15, but probably not ahead of Wagner.
                  6.Mays is the most balanced player ever.
                  7.Mantle might of had the best peak ever.
                  8.Hal Chase was a terrible tangilble player. Not top 40 1bmen.
                  9.Rickey Henderson is the best leadoff hitter off all time.
                  10.Mel Ott is underrated here.
                  11. Dick Allen is underrated here.
                  Last edited by -Kyle-; 12-27-2006, 06:44 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    top players

                    ruth
                    cobb
                    aaron
                    mays
                    musial
                    wagner
                    speaker
                    bonds
                    winfield
                    murray


                    hm- snider, campanella, henderson, mantle, etc

                    top pitchers

                    koufax
                    w. johnson
                    clemens
                    young
                    maddux
                    alexander
                    carlton
                    seaver
                    drysdale
                    mathewson

                    hm- martinez, m.brown, k. brown, r. johnson, newcombe, paige


                    1. any player with a average under .300 is overrated
                    2. any players who played less than 15 years overrated
                    3. too many hof inductees
                    4. joe d/foxx most overrated
                    5. the 63 dodgers best team in history
                    6. koufax greater than all

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Top Position Players

                      1. Ty Cobb
                      2. Honus Wagner
                      3. Babe Ruth
                      4. Willie Mays
                      5. Tris Speaker
                      6. Ted Williams
                      7. Mickey Mantle
                      8. Stan Musial
                      9. Hank Aaron
                      10. Rogers Hornsby
                      11. Lou Gehrig
                      12. Eddie Collins
                      13. Joe Dimaggio
                      14. Mike Schmidt
                      15. Johnny Bench
                      16. Nap Lajoie
                      17. Joe Jackson
                      18. Roberto Clemente
                      19. Eddie Mathews
                      20. Frank Robinson

                      Top Pitchers

                      1. Walter Johnson
                      2. Greg Maddux
                      3. Christy Mathewson
                      4. Cy Young
                      5. Lefty Grove
                      6. Pete Alexander
                      7. Warren Spahn
                      8. Randy Johnson
                      9. Steve Carlton
                      10. Tom Seaver
                      11. Kid Nichols
                      12. Bob Gibson
                      13. Bob Feller
                      14. Roger Clemens
                      15. Pedro Martines
                      16. Sandy Koufax
                      17. Whitey Ford
                      18. Nolan Ryan
                      19. Juan Marichal
                      20. Jim Palmer

                      All Time All Star Teams

                      Team A

                      Lineup

                      1. Tris Speaker CF
                      2. Honus Wagner SS
                      3. Ty Cobb LF
                      4. Babe Ruth RF
                      5. Ted Williams DH
                      6. Lou Gehrig 1B
                      7. Rogers Hornsby 2B
                      8. Mike Schmidt 3B
                      9. Johnny Bench

                      Rotation

                      1. Walter Johnson
                      2. Christy Mathewson
                      3. Greg Maddux
                      4. Lefty Grove
                      5. Cy Young

                      Closer

                      Mariano Rivera

                      Team B

                      Lineup

                      1. Eddie Collins 2B
                      2. George Sisler 1B
                      3. Joe Dimaggio LF
                      4. Mickey Mantle RF
                      5. Willie Mays CF
                      6. Eddie Mathews 3B
                      7. Joe Jackson DH
                      8. Yogi Berra C
                      9. Cal Ripken Jr. SS

                      Rotation

                      1. Pete Alexander
                      2. Steve Carlton
                      3. Warren Spahn
                      4. Tom Seaver
                      5. Bob Feller

                      Closer

                      Sandy Koufax

                      Dream Team (simply players I would like to see most)

                      Lineup

                      1. Tris Speaker CF
                      2. Honus Wagner SS
                      3. Ty Cobb RF
                      4. Joe Dimaggio LF
                      5. Joe Jackson DH
                      6. George Sisler 1B
                      7. Pie Traynor 3B
                      8. Eddie Collins 2B
                      9. Buck Ewing C

                      P Christy Mathewson

                      Positional Ranks

                      C

                      1. Johnny Bench
                      2. Yogi Berra
                      3. Buck Ewing
                      4. Mickey Cochrane
                      5. Mike Piazza
                      6. Roy Campanella
                      7. Ivan Rodriguez
                      8. Gary Carter
                      9. Bill Dickey
                      10. Carlton Fisk

                      1B

                      1. Lou Gehrig
                      2. George Sisler
                      3. Jimmie Foxx
                      4. Frank Thomas
                      5. Johnny Mize
                      6. Eddie Murray
                      7. Jeff Bagwell
                      8. Hank Greenberg
                      9. Willie McCovey
                      10. Harmon Killibrew

                      2B

                      1. Rogers Hornsby
                      2. Eddie Collins
                      3. Nap Lajoie
                      4. Joe Morgan
                      5. Craig Biggio
                      6. Charlie Gehringer
                      7. Rod Carew
                      8. Ryan Sandberg
                      9. Roberto Alomar
                      10. Jackie Robinson

                      SS

                      1. Honus Wagner
                      2. Cal Ripken Jr.
                      3. Arky Vaughan
                      4. Robin Yount
                      5. Alex Rodriguez
                      6. Ernie Banks
                      7. Joe Cronin
                      8. Derek Jeter
                      9. Luke Appling
                      10. Ozzie Smith

                      3B

                      1. Mike Schmidt
                      2. Eddie Mathews
                      3. George Brett
                      4. Wade Boggs
                      5. Chipper Jones
                      6. Frank Baker
                      7. Ron Santo
                      8. Pie Traynor
                      9. Jimmy Collins
                      10. Brooks Robinson

                      LF

                      1. Ted Williams
                      2. Barry Bonds
                      3. Stan Musial
                      4. Joe Jackson
                      5. Carl Yastremski
                      6. Rickey Henderson

                      CF

                      1. Ty Cobb
                      2. Willie Mays
                      3. Tris Speaker
                      4. Joe Dimaggio
                      5. Mickey Mantle
                      6. Ken Griffey Jr.
                      7. Duke Snider
                      8. Billy Hamilton
                      9. Kirby Puckett
                      10. Richi Ashburn
                      11. Hugh Duffy

                      RF

                      1. Babe Ruth
                      2. Hank Aaron
                      3. Frank Robinson
                      4. Roberto Clemente
                      5. Mel Ott
                      6. Tony Gwynn
                      7. Sam Crawfor
                      8. Redggie Jackson
                      9. Paul Waner
                      10. Al Kaline
                      11. Harry Heilman
                      12. Gary Sheffield
                      Last edited by cbenson5; 04-11-2011, 03:22 PM.
                      "I never saw anyone like Ty Cobb. No one even close to him. He was the greatest all time ballplayer. That guy was superhuman, amazing."
                      -Casey Stengel

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        My Top 28 Positional Players

                        1. Ty Cobb
                        2. Babe Ruth
                        3. Honus Wagner
                        4. Ted Williams
                        5. Rogers Hornsby
                        6. Mickey Mantle
                        7. Tris Speaker
                        8. Willie Mays
                        9. Barry Bonds
                        10. Lou Gherig
                        11. Stan Musial
                        12. Oscar Charleston
                        13. Nap Lajoie
                        14. Hank Aaron
                        15. Mike Schmidt
                        16. Eddie Collins
                        17. Frank Robinson
                        18. Jimmie Foxx
                        19. Joe DiMaggio
                        20. Joe Jackson
                        21. Dan Brouthers
                        22. Biz Mackey
                        23. Alex Rodriguez
                        24. Sadaharu Oh
                        25. Mel Ott
                        26. Josh Gibson
                        27. Carl Yastrzemski
                        28. Rickey Henderson


                        My Top 20 Pitchers

                        1. Pedro Martinez
                        2. Walter Johnson
                        3. Lefty Grove
                        4. Christy Mathewson
                        5. Roger Clemens
                        6. Pete Alexander
                        7. Greg Maddux
                        8. Sandy Koufax
                        9. Tom Seaver
                        10. Warren Spahn
                        11. Bob Gibson
                        12. Tom Seaver
                        13. Cy Young
                        14. Bob Feller
                        15. Randy Johnson
                        16. Nolan Ryan
                        17. Joe Williams
                        18. Steve Charlton
                        19. Juan Marichal
                        20. Rube Waddell



                        Team A

                        C - Johnny Bench
                        1B - Lou Gherig
                        2B - Rogers Hornsby
                        3B - Mike Schmidt
                        SS - Honus Wagner
                        CF - Ty Cobb
                        LF - Ted Williams
                        RF - Babe Ruth

                        RHP - Pedro Martinez
                        LHP - Lefty Grove


                        My All-Time Team B
                        C: Yogi Berra
                        1B: Jimmie Foxx
                        2B: Eddie Collins
                        3B: Wade Boggs
                        SS: Arky Vaughn
                        LF: Mickey Mantle
                        CF: Willie Mays
                        RF: Stan Musial

                        RHP: Walter Johnson
                        LHP: Sandy Koufax




                        Most Committed Opinions:


                        The closer is the most overrated role in baseball.

                        Teams that wins the World Series are ALWAYS the best team.

                        The Wild Card should be eliminated from baseball.

                        The DH is a good thing.

                        World Series play matters, but I won't take away from players that were not given the opportunity.
                        Last edited by EvanAparra; 01-07-2007, 11:27 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Rickey's Thoughts

                          All-Time Teams

                          Team A

                          C Yogi Berra/Buck EWing/

                          1B Lou Gehrig

                          2B Eddie Collins

                          SS Honus Wagner

                          3B Alex Rodriguez

                          RF Babe Ruth

                          CF Ty Cobb

                          LF Ted Williams

                          SP Satchel Paige

                          CL Mariano Rivera

                          MGR John McGraw


                          Team B


                          C Johnny Bench

                          1B Jimmie Foxx

                          2B Rogers Hornsby

                          SS Alex Rodriguez

                          3B Mike Schmidt

                          RF Hank Aaron

                          CF Mickey Mantle

                          LF Stan Musial

                          SP Walter Johnson/Pete Alexander

                          CL Hoyt Wilheim

                          MGR Ned Hanlon

                          All-Time AL Team


                          C Yogi Berra

                          1B Lou Gehrig

                          2B Eddie Collins

                          SS Alex Rodriguez

                          3B Alex Rodriguez

                          RF Babe Ruth

                          CF Ty Cobb

                          LF Ted Williams

                          SP Walter Johnson

                          CL Mariano Rivera

                          MGR Connie Mack

                          All-Time NL Team


                          C Johnny Bench

                          1B Willie McCovey

                          2B Rogers Hornsby

                          SS Honus Wagner

                          3B Mike Schmidt

                          RF Hank Aaron

                          CF Willie Mays

                          LF Stan Musial

                          SP Grover Cleveland Alexander

                          CL Bruce Sutter

                          MGR John McGraw


                          All-Time Offensive Team


                          C Mike Piazza

                          1B Lou Gehrig

                          2B Rogers Hornsby

                          SS Honus Wagner

                          3B Alex Rodriguez

                          RF Babe Ruth

                          CF Ty Cobb

                          LF Ted Williams

                          All-Time Defensive Team


                          C Buck EWing

                          1B Keith Hernandez

                          2B Bill Mazeroski

                          SS Honus Wagner

                          3B Brooks Robinson

                          RF Willie Mays

                          CF Dom DiMaggo

                          LF Tris Speaker

                          P Greg Maddux


                          Greatest Position Players of All-Time


                          1) Babe Ruth

                          2) Honus Wagner

                          3) Ty Cobb

                          4) Mickey Mantle

                          5) Willie Mays

                          6) Ted Williams

                          7) Lou Gehrig

                          8) Hank Aaron

                          9) Barry Bonds (Pre 1999)

                          10) Stan Musial

                          11a) Tris Speaker

                          11b) Oscar Charleston

                          13a) Eddie Collins

                          13b) Alex Rodriguez

                          15a) Joe DiMaggio

                          15b) Rogers Hornsby

                          17) Joe Morgan

                          18) Rickey Henderson

                          19) Nap Lajoie

                          20a) Jimmie Foxx

                          120b) Mel Ott

                          22) Frank Robinson

                          23a) Josh Gibson

                          23b) Yogi Berra

                          25) Buck EWing

                          26) Johnny Bench

                          27) John Lloyd

                          28) George Brett

                          29) Joe Jackson

                          30) Eddie Mathews

                          31) Carl Yastrzemski

                          32) Arky Vaughn

                          33) Cal Ripken Jr.

                          34a) Roberto Clemente

                          34b) George Sisler

                          36) Cap Anson

                          37) Turkey Stearnes

                          38) Reggie Jackson

                          39) Frank Thomas/ Ed Delahanty

                          41)

                          42)

                          43)

                          44)

                          45)

                          Top Five Pitchers of All-Time


                          1) Grover Cleveland Alexander

                          2) Walter Johnson

                          3) Roger Clemens

                          4) Lefty Grove

                          5) Christy Mathewson


                          Strongly Held Opinions
                          • If more hitters had attempted to hit HR in the 1920's then 20-30 HR seasons would have been common
                          • Kevin Brown is arguably the most underrated pitcher of all-time
                          • Ground Ball Percentage is an excellent measure of pitchers skills
                          • Mariano Rivera is the greatest reliever of all-time
                          • People here are more knowledgeable about baseball than the average ESPN writer
                          • With a few exceptions Japanese pitchers are very risky because of overuse
                          • Roger Clemens has no shot of catching Pete Alexander or Walter Johnson unless he continues to pitch at this level for about 5 more years after 2007
                          • Teams should use 4 man rotations in the regular season but carefully watch pitch counts
                          • Teams should use 3 man rotations in the postseason but carefully watch pitch counts
                          • The DH is a great part of the game
                          • Bonds, Sosa, McGuire, Palmeiro and the other steroid users should not be included in rankings
                          • Deadball OF are overrated defensively but Tris Speaker is still an all-time great fielder
                          Last edited by Mariano_Rivera; 06-11-2007, 02:37 PM.
                          2009 World Series Champions, The New York Yankees

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Top 20 MLB Position Players
                            1.Babe Ruth
                            2.Willie Mays
                            3.Ted Williams
                            4.Mickey Mantle
                            5.Pre-'01 Barry Bonds
                            6.Ty Cobb
                            7.Honus Wagner
                            8.Stan Musial
                            9.Hank Aaron
                            10.Rogers Hornsby
                            11.Lou Gehrig
                            12.Tris Speaker
                            13.Jimmie Foxx
                            14.Frank Robinson
                            15.Mike Schmidt
                            16.Joe Morgan
                            17.Joe DiMaggio
                            18.Mel Ott
                            19.Eddie Collins
                            20.Nap Lajoie

                            Top 20 MLB Pitchers
                            1.Walter Johnson
                            2.Roger Clemens
                            3.Lefty Grove
                            4.Grover Cleveland Alexader
                            5.Greg Maddux
                            6.Randy Johnson
                            7.Tom Seaver
                            8.Christy Mathewson
                            9.Pedro Martinez
                            10.Cy Young
                            11.Steve Carlton
                            12.Bob Gibson
                            13.Warren Spahn
                            14.Sandy Koufax
                            15.Mordecai Brown
                            16.Juan Marichal
                            17.Carl Hubbel
                            18.Robin Roberts
                            19.Kid Nichols
                            20.Bob Feller

                            Best Position Player By Decade
                            1900’s: Nap Lajoie, Honus Wagner
                            1910’s: Ty Cobb, Gavy Cravath
                            1920’s: Babe Ruth, Rogers Hornsby
                            1930’s: Lou Gehrig, Mel Ott
                            1940’s: Ted Williams, Stan Musial
                            1950’s: Mickey Mantle, Willie Mays
                            1960’s: Carl Yastrzemski, Frank Robinson
                            1970’s: Reggie Jackson, Joe Morgan
                            1980’s: George Brett, Mike Schmidt
                            1990’s: Frank Thomas, Barry Bonds

                            Best Pitchers By Decade
                            1900’s: Rube Waddell, Christy Mathewson
                            1910’s: Walter Johnson, Pete Alexander
                            1920’s: Herb Pennock, Dazzy Vance
                            1930’s: Lefty Grove, Carl Hubbel
                            1940’s: Hal Newhouser, Mort Cooper
                            1950’s: Early Wynn, Robin Roberts
                            1960’s: Whitey Ford, Sandy Koufax
                            1970’s: Jim Palmer, Tom Seaver
                            1980’s: Dave Stieb, Orel Hershiser
                            1990’s: Roger Clemens, Greg Maddux

                            Top 10 Catchers(0)
                            1.Johnny Bench
                            2.Yogi Berra
                            3.Mike Piazza
                            4.Gary Carter
                            5.Carlton Fisk
                            6.Ivan Rodriguez
                            7.Gabby Hartnett
                            8.Bill Dickey
                            9.Ted Simmons
                            10.Mickey Cochrane

                            Top 10 First Basemen(2)
                            1.Lou Gehrig
                            2.Jimmie Foxx
                            3.Frank Thomas
                            4.Willie McCovey
                            5.Jeff Bagwell
                            6.Johnny Mize
                            7.Eddie Murray
                            8.Dick Allen
                            9.Hank Greenberg
                            10.Harmon Killebrew

                            Top 10 Second Basemen(4)
                            1.Rogers Hornsby
                            2.Joe Morgan
                            3.Eddie Collins
                            4.Nap Lajoie
                            5.Craig Biggio
                            6.Ryne Sandberg
                            7.Roberto Alomar
                            8.Rod Carew
                            9.Charlie Gehringer
                            10.Bobby Grich

                            Top 10 Third Basemen(1)
                            1.Mike Schmidt
                            2.Eddie Matthews
                            3.George Brett
                            4.Wade Boggs
                            5.Ron Santo
                            6.Brooks Robinson
                            7.Frank Baker
                            8.Chipper Jones
                            9.Sal Bando
                            10.Ken Boyer

                            Top 10 Shortstops(1)
                            1.Honus Wagner
                            2.Alex Rodriguez
                            3.Robin Yount
                            4.Cal Ripken Jr
                            5.Arky Vaughn
                            6.Ernie Banks
                            7.Barry Larkin
                            8.Alan Trammell
                            9.Derek Jeter
                            10.Ozzie Smith


                            Top 10 Left Fielders(3)
                            1.Ted Williams
                            2.Pre-'01 Barry Bonds
                            3.Stan Musial
                            4.Rickey Henderson
                            5.Carl Yastrzemski
                            6.Willie Stargell
                            7.Tim Raines
                            8.Manny Ramirez
                            9.Joe Jackson
                            10.Billy Williams


                            Top 10 Center Fielders(5)
                            1.Willie Mays
                            2.Mickey Mantle
                            3.Ty Cobb
                            4.Tris Speaker
                            5.Joe DiMaggio
                            6.Ken Griffey Jr
                            7.Duke Snider
                            8.Jimmy Wynn
                            9.Larry Doby
                            10.Dale Murphy


                            Top 10 Right Fielders(4)
                            1.Babe Ruth
                            2.Hank Aaron
                            3.Frank Robinson
                            4.Mel Ott
                            5.Reggie Jackson
                            6.Tony Gwynn
                            7.Gary Sheffield
                            8.Al Kaline
                            9.Roberto Clemente
                            10.Pete Rose
                            Last edited by The Toy Cannon; 11-04-2006, 05:11 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Top 50 Position Players:

                              1. Babe Ruth
                              2. Ty Cobb
                              3. Willie Mays
                              4. Honus Wagner
                              5. Mickey Mantle
                              6. Ted Williams
                              7. Tris Speaker
                              8. Hank Aaron
                              9. Oscar Charleston
                              10. Barry Bonds
                              11. Rogers Hornsby
                              12. Stan Musial
                              13. Joe DiMaggio
                              14. Lou Gehrig
                              15. Eddie Collins
                              16. Joe Morgan
                              17. Frank Robinson
                              18. Pop Lloyd
                              19. Rickey Henderson
                              20. Mike Schmidt
                              21. Nap Lajoie
                              22. Jimmy Foxx
                              23. Johnny Bench
                              24. Alex Rodriguez
                              25. Mel Ott
                              26. Jackie Robinson
                              27. Eddie Mathews
                              28. Joe Jackson
                              29. Josh Gibson
                              30. Carl Yastrzemski
                              31. George Brett
                              32. Yogi Berra
                              33. Arky Vaughn
                              34. Johnny Mize
                              35. Dan Brouthers
                              36. Al Kaline
                              37. Sam Crawford
                              38. Ken Griffey, Jr.
                              39. Roberto Clemente
                              40. Dick Allen
                              41. Ed Delehanty
                              42. Tony Gywnn
                              43. Willie McCovey
                              44. Buck Ewing
                              45. George Sisler
                              46. Frank Thomas
                              47. Turkey Stearnes
                              48. Robin Yount
                              49. Charlie Gehringer
                              50. Cal Ripken


                              Top 15 Pitchers
                              1. Walter Johnson
                              2. Lefty Grove
                              3. Gred Maddox
                              4. Cy Young
                              5. Tom Seaver
                              6. Satchel Paige
                              7. Pete Alexander
                              8. Pedro Martinez
                              9. Christy Mathewson
                              10. Warren Spahn
                              11. Randy Johnson
                              12. Kid Nichols
                              13. Bob Gibson
                              14. Sandy Koufax
                              15. Bob Feller

                              All-Time All-Star Teams

                              A-Team

                              C - Johnny Bench
                              1B - Lou Gehrig
                              2B - Rogers Hornsby
                              3B - Mike Schmidt
                              SS - Honus Wagner
                              LF - Ted Williams
                              CF - Ty Cobb
                              RF - Babe Ruth
                              SP - Walter Johnson
                              RP - Mariano Rivera

                              B-Team

                              C - Josh Gibson
                              1B - Jimmy Foxx
                              2B - Eddie Collins
                              3B - Eddie Mathews
                              SS - Pop Lloyd
                              LF - Barry Bonds
                              CF - Willie Mays
                              RF - Hank Aaron
                              SP - Lefty Grove
                              RP - Hoyt Wilhem
                              Last edited by mwiggins; 01-10-2009, 08:22 PM.

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