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Is Sadaharu Oh a top 100 player?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by scottmitchell74 View Post

    Good question.

    The best hitter by some margin in a very good professional league he probably would have been and MLB great...but maybe that jump does him in? I love the thought experiment. Fun!
    I think he'd make an adjustment to succeed. Not that he'd put up the same numbers. Not sure about his approach and mindset to be honest.
    Last edited by GoslinFan; 03-14-2022, 10:23 PM.

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    • #32
      Wow a 16 year old thread that I started has come back to life!
      Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules View Post
        Wow a 16 year old thread that I started has come back to life!
        Does that make you feel old or proud?
        Last edited by GoslinFan; 03-14-2022, 10:30 PM.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by GoslinFan View Post

          Does that make you feel old?
          Yes!

          By the way Jim Albright has tallied Oh's stats vs major league teams. In 110 exhibition games vs major league teams Oh hit .260/.413./524, 25 HR, 88 BB. Oh hit home runs off of Steve Carlton, Jim Palmer, Pat Dobson, Jerry Koosman, John Matlack, Tom Seaver, and Tom Hume to name a few..
          Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules View Post

            Yes!

            By the way Jim Albright has tallied Oh's stats vs major league teams. In 110 exhibition games vs major league teams Oh hit .260/.413./524, 25 HR, 88 BB. Oh hit home runs off of Steve Carlton, Jim Palmer, Pat Dobson, Jerry Koosman, John Matlack, Tom Seaver, and Tom Hume to name a few..
            Legit. What stadiums?

            Was just thinking could he have hit homers off any more common first names? Steve, Jim, Jerry, John, Tom...he's only missing a Joe, Bill and Bob.
            Last edited by GoslinFan; 03-14-2022, 10:34 PM.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by GoslinFan View Post

              Legit. What stadiums?

              Was just thinking could he have hit homers off any more common first names? Steve, Jim, Jerry, John, Tom...he's only missing a Joe, Bill and Bob.
              I believe these games were mostly in Japan in the fall after the NPB and MLB seasons ended, From Jim Albright's Sadaharu Oh page.


              Exhibitions Against Major Leaguers

              Oh played 110 exhibition games against major leaguers, either in October or November or during spring training. He had 338 at bats and hit for a .260 average with 88 walks for a .413 on-base percentage. He also slugged 14 doubles, no triples and 25 homers among his hits, for a .524 slugging average. (I’ll list the pitchers he took out of the park below). These numbers include a 6 for 54 in 1971 against the Orioles, and an 0 for 12 in 1960. We won’t make any discount for the 1971 performance, as it may or may not represent a slump, but it would be appropriate to eliminate the 1960 results, since we do not project Oh to have been ready for the majors at that time. If you eliminate the 1960 results, his average will rise to .270, his on base percentage to .414, and his slugging percentage to .543. It is likely this performance came at least mostly in parks which were not of major league dimensions. However, it is a dominant performance against pitching which appears be above the average of pitching he would have faced in the majors, for reasons which will be demonstrated when we list the MLB pitchers Oh hit his homers against.

              The pitchers (and the year) Oh hit his homers off of were (lefties are denoted with an asterisk[*], and if a pitcher gave up multiple homers to Oh, the number appears in parentheses): Hank Aguirre*, 1962; Nick Willhite*, 1966 (2); Alan Foster, 1966; Joe Moeller, 1966; Jim Brewer*, 1966; Steve Carlton*, 1968; Dick Hughes, 1968; Nelson Briles, 1968; Ray Washburn, 1968; Larry Jaster*, 1968; Wayne Granger, 1968; Frank Reberger, 1970; Frank Linzy, 1970; Pat Dobson, 1971; Jim Palmer, 1971; Dick Hall, 1971; Jerry Cram, 1974 (2); Jerry Koosman*, 1974; John Matlack*, 1974 (3); Tom Seaver, 1978; and Tom Hume, 1978. Further, the same data tells us Oh was pulling even this group of pitchers: 4 to left, 1 to left center, 3 to center, 5 to right center, and 12 to right.

              If you looked at the teams Oh played against, you’d think he should have faced some pretty good pitching. Oh and the Giants faced three league champions from the majors. Also, if you took the major league won/loss records of the teams Oh and the Giants faced and weighted them by the number of games against Oh and the Giants, then took the resulting won/loss percentage out to a major league schedule of 162 games, the team would have a 92-70 record. The list of pitchers Oh homered off of supports the belief he was facing good major league pitching. For those of you who need more proof, let’s look at the median (the middle of the group) pitchers Oh homered against. Since we don’t have the full record, it only seems fair to be conservative in our estimate. We’ll use the pitcher’s ERA the actual year the homer occurred unless the pitcher had less than 50 IP. In that case, we take the ERA for both the season the homer occurred and the next season as well. If a pitcher remains under 50 IP after adding in a second season, so be it (Dick Hall and Jerry Cram wound up with less than 50 IP under these rules). Oh hit two against guys with ERAs of 5 or more, and there were only 4 more homers off of a pitcher with an ERA over 4. Anyway, the median lefty yielding a homer had a 2.92 ERA, the median righty yielding a homer had a 2.80 ERA, and the overall median pitcher yielding a homer had a 2.85 ERA. The average ERA was 3.55 in the majors during the period 1962-1975, and the lowest it got for any season for the whole majors was 2.98 in 1968. Thus, one can reasonably say in the exhibitions against major leaguers, Oh got his homers off a better than average group of major league pitchers. When all factors are considered, this segment of data outweighs the All-Star data and keeps Oh’s record the way we would expect a HOFer’s record in his circumstances to be.


              http://baseballguru.com/jalbright/an...lbright12.html
              Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

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              • #37
                Great stuff!!

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