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Define the Eras: Hitting or Pitching

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  • Define the Eras: Hitting or Pitching

    define the eras in baseball history for me - this is for both the statistician and the historian

    don't leave any year out 1876-today - don't just say 1880s or 90s etc. that doesn't mean anything - give exact years - we basically know that the dead ball era was a pitchers era but what are the specific years of flucuation since 1876? - were there any years that weren't specifically pitcher or hitter dominant?

    example (completely w/o thought or basis):
    1876-1892 pitching
    1893-1900 hitting
    1901-1919 pitching
    1920-1942 hitting
    1943-1948 pitching
    1949 neutral, etc.

  • #2
    Without breaking down every single year or trying to figure which was neutral

    1876-1894 hitting
    1895-1908 pitching
    1909-1930 hitting
    1931-1938 pitching only for NL
    1939-1946 pitching for both
    1947-1950 hitting
    1951-1968 pitching
    1969 to date hitting
    Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
    Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

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    • #3
      Originally posted by RuthMayBond
      Without breaking down every single year or trying to figure which was neutral

      1876-1894 hitting
      1895-1908 pitching
      1909-1930 hitting
      1931-1938 pitching only for NL
      1939-1946 pitching for both
      1947-1950 hitting
      1951-1968 pitching
      1969 to date hitting
      Since yours is probably the overall scholarly opinion that matches my pedestrian one the most, (outside of the whole peak thing) I'm curious as to why you have the current hitters era going so far back. I personally think it took a few years for the hitters to catch up with the pitchers after the lowering of the mound in 1968.
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      • #4
        --RMB, the hitters had the best of it for all the 1890s. Hitters had the edge in the 1950s. Pitchers ruled through the 1970s and the 1980s were pretty nuetral. The current hitters era didn't get underway until the early 90s.

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        • #5
          the mound was pushed back beginning in 1893 - did that change anything

          outrageous pitching stats put up in the 1880s and 1910s - unsure how they could be hitter's eras

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          • #6
            Originally posted by bkmckenna
            the mound was pushed back beginning in 1893 - did that change anything
            Not right away, but hitting cooled off after 1894

            <outrageous pitching stats put up in the 1880s and 1910s - unsure how they could be hitter's eras>

            You mean like a league ERA of 6.08 in 1887, and that's just EARNED runs.
            And 1911 and 1912 weren't bad. I basically start an era when the trend starts to reverse itself. I just haven't evaluated year-by-year
            Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
            Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

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            • #7
              Originally posted by RuthMayBond
              Not right away, but hitting cooled off after 1894

              <outrageous pitching stats put up in the 1880s and 1910s - unsure how they could be hitter's eras>

              You mean like a league ERA of 6.08 in 1887, and that's just EARNED runs.
              And 1911 and 1912 weren't bad. I basically start an era when the trend starts to reverse itself. I just haven't evaluated year-by-year
              yeah, i see what you're saying - i't hard to flat out classify a year - but it is hard to see incredible pitching numbers put up by hoss radbourne and a host of others and later mathewson, alexander, johnson and others during the teens and consider them hitter's eras - if they were actually hitter's eras - then those men must have come from mt. olympus

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              • #8
                The 50's wasn't a pitchers era nor the first part of the 60's.
                Nor would I call anything pre 1900's as a pitchers era. Way too primitive of a game.

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                • #9
                  1900-1919 pitchers
                  1920-1940 hitters
                  1941-1960 average
                  1961-1968 pitchers
                  1969-1993 average
                  1994-2004 hitters
                  2005-????
                  "There ain't much to bein' a ballplayer...if you're a ballplayer. "

                  --Honus Wagner

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by 85cards
                    1900-1919 pitchers
                    1920-1940 hitters
                    1941-1960 average
                    1961-1968 pitchers
                    1969-1993 average
                    1994-2004 hitters
                    2005-????
                    Both 1943 and 1950 were average? 1901 was pitcher but 1943 was average?
                    Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
                    Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by bkmckenna
                      outrageous pitching stats put up in the 1880s and 1910s - unsure how they could be hitter's eras
                      In the 1870s and 1880s most teams didn't have more than three to five pitchers (some had only one), and that caused the out of this world IP totals. That doesn't mean the pitchers were successful though. They pitched lots of innings, but not at a high level of effectiveness. Of course, until the 1890s it is completely unclear how good the pitchers were because they often pitched underhand and were asked to put the ball where the hitters wanted it. Defense back then was probably like 75% fielding and 25% pitching as opposed to the other way around today.

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                      • #12
                        Just off my head. Maybe a little off.
                        1870s-1890 Pitching
                        1891-1904 Hitting
                        1908-1919 Pitching
                        1920-1941 Hitting
                        WWII - Pitching?
                        1946-1962 Hitting
                        1963-1986 Pitching... seriously. Definitely the 70's.
                        1987 Hitting, with good pitching
                        1988-1992 Pitching
                        1993-present Hitting
                        (fantasy football)
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                        JM: I don't know where Lou is right now. He's probably fleeing the authorities [laughs].

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                        • #13
                          bill james analysis:

                          1876-77 normal era
                          1878-80 pitcher era (slightly weighted as such)
                          1881-86 normal or transition era
                          1887-97 hitters era (heavily weighted)
                          1898-02 normal or transitional era
                          1903-19 pitchers era (heavily weighted)
                          1920-28 transition era
                          1929-39 hitters era (moderately weighted)
                          1940-62 normal era
                          1963-72 pitchers era (moderately weighted)
                          1973-93 normal era
                          1994-05 hitters era (moderately weighted)

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by bkmckenna
                            bill james analysis:

                            1876-77 normal era
                            1878-80 pitcher era (slightly weighted as such)
                            1881-86 normal or transition era
                            1887-97 hitters era (heavily weighted)
                            1898-02 normal or transitional era
                            1903-19 pitchers era (heavily weighted)
                            1920-28 transition era
                            1929-39 hitters era (moderately weighted)
                            1940-62 normal era
                            1963-72 pitchers era (moderately weighted)
                            1973-93 normal era
                            1994-05 hitters era (moderately weighted)
                            I agree that '20-'28 was not a hitters era, but what does he mean by "transition era?" That the actual style of the game changed throughout the era, so he can't place a definate label on it?

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Sultan_1895-1948
                              I agree that '20-'28 was not a hitters era, but what does he mean by "transition era?" That the actual style of the game changed throughout the era, so he can't place a definate label on it?
                              NL, 1922, 23, 25, 28...actually had significantly higher scoring than 1933
                              AL, at least 1921, 25 had slightly higher scoring than 1929
                              Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
                              Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

                              Comment

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