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Aaron and Greenies

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  • Aaron and Greenies

    Okay it has been a while since I posted in here, but I figure this is a good place to start. For the past year, especially recently with Bonds positive test, I have seen quite a few people on here make statements about Aaron's use of Greenies as if it is a commonly accepted fact that he used them on a regular basis. I wanted to start this thread seeking information on the topic. I know the argument that greenie use was rampant during Aaron's playing days, but this is far from clear evidence of his use as many indicate on here. For those that believe Aaron diduse greenies, can you please provide me with some facts about Aaron's greenie use?
    I signed with the Milwaukee Braves for three-thousand dollars. That bothered my dad at the time because he didn't have that kind of dough. But he eventually scraped it up.~Bob Uecker


    "While he had a total of forty home runs in his first two big-league seasons, it is unlikely that Aaron will break any records in this department." ~ Furman Bisher, Atlanta Journal and Constitution "journalist"

  • #2
    Due to the lack of response can i assume that no one can provide me the information I am looking for or is it just that no one in this forum cares to respond?
    I signed with the Milwaukee Braves for three-thousand dollars. That bothered my dad at the time because he didn't have that kind of dough. But he eventually scraped it up.~Bob Uecker


    "While he had a total of forty home runs in his first two big-league seasons, it is unlikely that Aaron will break any records in this department." ~ Furman Bisher, Atlanta Journal and Constitution "journalist"

    Comment


    • #3
      I think that the only reason Aaron has been mentioned on this site in conjunction with greenies is to deflect criticism from Barry Bonds. The argument goes something like this:

      Aaron played in the 50's-70's.
      Many players in the 50's-70's used greenies.
      Therefore Aaron must have used greenies.
      If Aaron used greenies then his records are tainted.
      If Bonds surpasses Aaron, it's OK because one tainted player is replacing another.

      I don't have his autobiography but others on here state that in his autobiography, Aaron admits something to the effect that he tried greenies once, he didn't like them, and he never tried them again.

      When some of the accusations were brought up, I looked up every possible combination that I could think of on ProQuest to see if there were any contemporaneous accounts of Aaron being linked to amphetimines. I found zero.

      In my opinion there's no reason to dirty the good name of Hank Aaron to link him to greenies.
      "Batting slumps? I never had one. When a guy hits .358, he doesn't have slumps."

      Rogers Hornsby, 1961

      Comment


      • #4
        "Actually the 1968 season wasn't the best time to present my case. It was the first time since my rookie year that I didn't drive in or scored 100 runs. I was so frustrated that at one point I tried using a pep pill-a greenie-that one of my teamates gave me. When that thing took hold, I thought I was having a heart attack. It was a stupid thing to do, and besides that, I shouldn't have been so concerned about my hitting in the first place. Nobody was hitting in 1968. That was the year of the pitcher - Drysdale's streak of scoreless innings and Bob Gibson's 1.12 earned run average."

        That is an excerpt from Lonnie Wheeler's, "I Had a Hammer: The Hank Aaron Story"

        I used to have the exact citation with the page number and everything but I can't seem to find it right now. The number 168 is creeping into my mind, but I really have no idea.

        Aaron simply admitted to experimenting with a greenie. There was no admission of long term, regular use.
        THE REVOLUTION WILL NOT COME WITH A SCORECARD

        In the avy: AZ - Doe or Die

        Comment


        • #5
          Hey, Jpenrod, time to change the tagline under your username, huh...
          THE REVOLUTION WILL NOT COME WITH A SCORECARD

          In the avy: AZ - Doe or Die

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by digglahhh
            Hey, Jpenrod, time to change the tagline under your username, huh...
            Ha Ha, yeah I guess you are right. I kind of forgot about it.

            In regards to your I had a hammer quote, I am very familiar with that section of the book (great read btw). and I have stated my opinion in other threads, that taking that quote along with other quotes I truly believe this was Aaron's only experimentation with Greenies.

            Bench 5, I understand your point but I am looking for some serious hard evidence not pure speculation. Like I said I am just wondering why people seem so convinced Aaron took Greenies outside of speculation and conjecture.
            I signed with the Milwaukee Braves for three-thousand dollars. That bothered my dad at the time because he didn't have that kind of dough. But he eventually scraped it up.~Bob Uecker


            "While he had a total of forty home runs in his first two big-league seasons, it is unlikely that Aaron will break any records in this department." ~ Furman Bisher, Atlanta Journal and Constitution "journalist"

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by digglahhh
              "Actually the 1968 season wasn't the best time to present my case. It was the first time since my rookie year that I didn't drive in or scored 100 runs. I was so frustrated that at one point I tried using a pep pill-a greenie-that one of my teamates gave me. When that thing took hold, I thought I was having a heart attack. It was a stupid thing to do, and besides that, I shouldn't have been so concerned about my hitting in the first place. Nobody was hitting in 1968. That was the year of the pitcher - Drysdale's streak of scoreless innings and Bob Gibson's 1.12 earned run average."

              That is an excerpt from Lonnie Wheeler's, "I Had a Hammer: The Hank Aaron Story"

              I used to have the exact citation with the page number and everything but I can't seem to find it right now. The number 168 is creeping into my mind, but I really have no idea.

              Aaron simply admitted to experimenting with a greenie. There was no admission of long term, regular use.

              Look, he would have been HOF caliber even without the greenie, but you have to try to figure out how much of a hit his stats would have taken

              By the way, Sudafed tablets would have had the same effect-though they are banned today. Some Hockey players were known to pop an entire bubble pack of 24 sudafed tablets before games, though if you've never taken them, just 1 can give jitters, and increase BP and heart rate and keep you up for 12 hours-for some people.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by jpenrod
                Ha Ha, yeah I guess you are right. I kind of forgot about it.

                In regards to your I had a hammer quote, I am very familiar with that section of the book (great read btw). and I have stated my opinion in other threads, that taking that quote along with other quotes I truly believe this was Aaron's only experimentation with Greenies.
                Jpen - I agree. After all, he did confess to it, so I don't have a reason not to believe he didn't use it more than once. But what was his reason for stopping? He didn't like them?

                I'm not calling Aaron a cheat - But he didn't stop because he felt guilty about trying to artificially enhance his performance, he stopped because it apparently didn't make him feel good.

                I think Aaron's intentions were pretty clear - He saw others using and benefitting from Greenies, so he tried to " join in " to keep up with his peers.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Skin & Bones
                  Jpen - I agree. After all, he did confess to it, so I don't have a reason not to believe he didn't use it more than once. But what was his reason for stopping? He didn't like them?

                  I'm not calling Aaron a cheat - But he didn't stop because he felt guilty about trying to artificially enhance his performance, he stopped because it apparently didn't make him feel good.

                  I think Aaron's intentions were pretty clear - He saw others using and benefitting from Greenies, so he tried to " join in " to keep up with his peers.
                  He stopped because "it almost gave him a heart attack". I think you're really grasping for straws if you claim Aaron is cheating in any way when he just decided to half heartedly try it to get out of a slump.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by 538280
                    He stopped because "it almost gave him a heart attack". I think you're really grasping for straws if you claim Aaron is cheating in any way when he just decided to half heartedly try it to get out of a slump.
                    You apparently are missing the point.

                    I never said he cheated, infact I've never seen anyone call him a cheater.

                    However, there's pretty much no way to deny his intentions - He was in a slump, so he looked to artificially enhance his game - He didn't like it, so he stopped. That's not " owning up " to anything - It's like me stealing a piece of candy, eating it, and not liking it.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Skin & Bones
                      You apparently are missing the point.

                      I never said he cheated, infact I've never seen anyone call him a cheater.

                      However, there's pretty much no way to deny his intentions - He was in a slump, so he looked to artificially enhance his game - He didn't like it, so he stopped. That's not " owning up " to anything - It's like me stealing a piece of candy, eating it, and not liking it.
                      S&B, All I can say is Read "I Had a Hammer". You are partially correct about his motives and his intentions, but he did admit that the whole thing was stupid and wrong. I can try and difg up some quotes from the book if you want, but I think if you read the entire book you would not question his "owning up" as you call it.

                      As far as accusing people of missing the point I could say the same to you. People on this site suggest and imply quite often that Aaron was a hibitual user of Greenies and that the record is tainted already because of it. To use your ownexample it would be like me accusing you of being a career criminal and someone who could not be trusted simply because you stole a candy bar one time and then decided you would never do it again regardless of your motives.
                      I signed with the Milwaukee Braves for three-thousand dollars. That bothered my dad at the time because he didn't have that kind of dough. But he eventually scraped it up.~Bob Uecker


                      "While he had a total of forty home runs in his first two big-league seasons, it is unlikely that Aaron will break any records in this department." ~ Furman Bisher, Atlanta Journal and Constitution "journalist"

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by jpenrod
                        As far as accusing people of missing the point I could say the same to you. People on this site suggest and imply quite often that Aaron was a hibitual user of Greenies and that the record is tainted already because of it. To use your ownexample it would be like me accusing you of being a career criminal and someone who could not be trusted simply because you stole a candy bar one time and then decided you would never do it again regardless of your motives.

                        I agree. I've never seen someone call Aaron a habitual user of Amphetamines, but if you have, I agree they are wrong.

                        Wally Joyner is an admitted steroids user, but I wouldn't call him an " abuser " like I would Canseco because he only admits to using them for a short period in 1997.

                        I don't see how I'm missing the point though, since I already said that I agree Aaron's admisson to using Greenies once isn't proof that he used it frequently.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Also its important to remember that Amphetamines were not a govermentally controlled substance until 1970 and that many in the military were given these drugs during their service to combat fatigue. There was not anywhere near as much negative conotations behind their use at the time.
                          Get out the Vote!!!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            S&B's point, and a valid one, is what if Aaron went 4 for 4 that day with three dingers?

                            Would he have then developed a different perspective about the greenies? Would he have stopped?

                            A renouncing of PEDs on the basis of physical condition or lack of effect is the not the same as a TRUE renouncement based upon ethics. I'm sure ethics did play a part in Aaron's decision to cease experimenting, but crediting physical uneasiness for he decision is not as admirable, or pure, as crediting an ethical awakening. I'm not bashing Aaron, I have tremendous respect for him as a man and as a player, but I think this small point is important.

                            In that respect, intention is a legitimate question. However, intent has no bearing on the status of the record as "tainted" or "pure."

                            The intention to cheat IS the action- the outcome is irrelevant. So, on that day Hank Aaron was a cheater. It is completely unjustified to sully his reputation at large because of one gaffe, though.
                            THE REVOLUTION WILL NOT COME WITH A SCORECARD

                            In the avy: AZ - Doe or Die

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              In my opinion there is not a single former drug user who gave up any kind of stuff because of ethics. The reasons that make them stop are either health, law, lack of money or personal catastrophies.

                              Comment

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