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Pitcher/Hitter matchups: Post 1957

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  • #16
    And if Frank Lary was considered a Yankee killer it sure wasn't against Mantle and Maris.



    Mantle

    PA 122
    H 32
    2B 3
    3B 0
    HR 7
    RBI 20
    BB 19
    K 20
    BA .320
    OPS .990


    Maris

    PA 101
    H 31
    2B 6
    3B 1
    HR 8
    RBI 15
    BB 7
    K 9
    BA .330
    OPS 1.046

    Comment


    • #17
      It is well known that Brooklyn fans bestowed Stan Musial with his moniker "The Man", because he was particularly great against them, especially at Ebbets. When asked how he handled Musial, Preacher Roe once said "I throw him four wide ones, and then try to pick him off first."

      In any case, I thought you guys might find this interesting, and completely related to this topic. I found this on SABR-L yesterday, courtesy of Dave Smith of retrosheet.

      "As a followup to the data on Musial, Lyle Spatz sent me a note with a reminder that Musial was notorious for great results against the Dodgers and that the performance of Labine was very much better than most Dodger pitchers. He is absolutely correct and I just used our raw pre-1957 files with the more recent proofed ones and created the following report for Musial vs each of the 75 Dodger pitchers he faced from 1946-1963. Our holdings prior to 1946 are too sparse to be useful. That report is below and it is immediately apparent that did indeed like facing the Dodgers, with neither right nor left-handed pitchers causing much trouble for him. (See Newcombe, Erskine, Drysdale, Roe, Podres, Koufax). Notice also the huge numbers of at bats that he had against some pitchers, huge by today's norms
      at any rate. Labine really stands out here. By the way, the numbers for Labine in this report are different from what I sent to the Dodgers and MLB.com since Labine also pitched for the Pirates and Mets and those results were included in the earlier totals."


      Stan Musial vs Dodger pitchers, 1946-1963

      Report prepared by Retrosheet, March 3, 2007

      In the interest of space, I only included pitchers Stan faced a significant amount of times, or great/HOF caliber pitchers. Dave compiled Musial's entire post WWII career against all Dodger pitching.

      Code:
      Pitcher                AB   H 2B 3B HR  BB SO RBI    BA    OA    SA
      Erskine, Carl         116  39 10  2  8  18  4  23  .336  .430  .664
      Koufax, Sandy          38  13  1  0  2   6  5   7  .342  .432  .526
      Newcombe, Don         101  37  7  3  8   8  6  21  .366  .409  .733
      Podres, Johnny        108  38  8  1  5  11  8  18  .352  .418  .583
      Roe, Preacher         137  52  9  1 12  13 13  28  .380  .433  .723

      Comment


      • #18
        Moreover, I have Jackie Robinson's entire career in terms of pitcher/batter matchups (he faced 288 pitchers total). If people are interested in this stuff, let me know and I'll keep digging for different players. If not I won't bother to put in the time and re-post stuff here. This is courtesy of our (lamentably former) Dodger scribe Shlevine.

        Jackie Robinson's career matchups

        I don't know who compiled this information, given that the people at retrosheet like Dave Smith have noted that the information pre 1946 is "very scattered". I figure either the full PBP information exists or it does not; that's why we have full career info such as this, no?

        - Jackie had more AB (160) and hit more HR (9) against ROBERTS than against any other pitcher.
        - Jackie hit .317 against lefties and .309 against right-handed pitchers.
        - He hit .317 in Day games and .301 at night.
        - His best month was June (.346), the worst was August (.289).
        - He hit .268 with the bases loaded, including two home runs.
        - In "Late Innings, Close" situations (7th, 8th and 9th innings with his team either tied or one run behind), Jackie hit .341 with 30 home runs -- 22% of ALL his 137 HRs.

        - Of the pitchers whom he faced at least 50 times, GERRY STALEY of the Cards was his favorite patsy. Jackie scorched him for a .432 average.
        - Next was SHELDON JONES of the Giants (.409 average).
        - Jackie hit .310 against Maglie, .281 against Roberts and .275 against Spahn.
        - Jackie's had his lowest batting averages against JOHNNY KLIPPSTEIN (.204), BILL VOISELLE (.220) and HERM WEHMEIER (.242).
        - SPAHN and WEHMEIER each struck Jackie out 10 times -- more than any other pitcher.

        Comment


        • #19
          I believe that a service to ourselves would be good if we had a thread that showed the matchups of Hall of Famers since 1960, and the BB Reference feature will now let us.

          Here is a list of Hall of Fame Pitchers since 1959.

          Jim Bunning, Steve Carlton, Don Drysdale, Dennis Eckersley, Rollie Fingers, Whitey Ford, Bob Gibson, Catfish Hunter, Fergie Jenkins, Sandy Koufax, Juan Marichal, Phil Niekro, Jim Palmer, Gaylord Perry, Nolan Ryan, Tom Seaver, Warren Spahn, Don Sutton, Hoyt Wilhelm, Early Wynn.

          I would also think we'd be well-served if we had the Hall Hitters too.
          At the least.

          Aaron, Clemente, Mays, F.Robinson, E. Mathews, F.Thomas, Santo, B.Williams, Rose, Ashburn, B.Virdon, McCovey, D.Allen, J.Wynn, Morgan, Musial, T.Perez, Stargell

          I will insert the new thread into the Classic, Vintage Threads. If you know how to do this in a comprehensive way, that would be good.

          Bill

          Comment


          • #20
            "Stan Musial vs Warren Spahn -- The Irresistible Force vs The Immovable Object"

            This courtesy of Herm Krabbenhoft, longtime SABR researcher who has also written articles for The Sporting News and presented his work across the country.

            Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 20:29:19 EDT
            From: "Herman O. Krabbenhoft" <[email protected]>
            Subject: Batter (Musial) vs Pitcher (Spahn)

            In 1990, I carried out a comprehensive investigation of Stan Musial vs Warren Spahn -- "Stan Musial vs Warren Spahn -- The Irresistible Force vs The Immovable Object" [Baseball Quarterly Reviews, Volume 5, Number 4, pages 193-219 (Winter-1990)]. According to my research, Musial compiled the following batting record versus Spahn --

            Games (107)
            At Bats (329)
            Runs (61)
            Hits (106)
            Doubles (23)
            Triples (6)
            Home Runs (17)
            Runs Batted In (52)
            Walks (51)
            Hit by Pitches (2)

            NOTE -- At the time I did this research (which was 4 years before Retrosheet had it's first annual Board Meeting and 7 years before its first release of PBP information), I was unable to ascertain the result of one plate appearance -- Musial's second plate appearance against Spahn in the game on April 25, 1954. According to the information provided in the Milwaukee newspapers (i.e., The Journal and The Sentinel) and in the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, he did either of the following -- doubled, walked, or was retired. I just checked the Retrosheet site for this game -- only the boxscore is presently posted (i.e., no play-by-play).

            In browsing my article, I see that I did not itemize sacrifice flies (or hits). So, from the information provided in the article, it is not possible to state the number of plate appearances that Musial had in which he had a sacrifice hit or a sacrifice fly in the seasons from 1954 forward. So, at this point, I know that Musial had at least 383 plate appearances against Spahn -- 329 at bats + 51 walks + 2 HBP + 1 (from 1954, result as yet undetermined).

            Hope this information is useful.

            Herm

            Comment


            • #21
              GREAT resource here. You can view every pitcher batter matchup since 1957, and it includes information down to every single pitch!!!!

              http://www.thebaseballcube.com/statistics/head2head.asp

              Pitch Sequence Codes
              + following pickoff throw by the catcher
              * indicates the following pitch was blocked by the catcher.
              . marker for play not involving the batter
              1 pickoff throw to first
              2 pickoff throw to second
              3 pickoff throw to third
              > Indicates a runner going on the pitch
              b ball
              c called strike
              f foul
              h hit batter
              i intentional ball
              k strike (unknown type)
              l foul bunt
              m missed bunt attempt
              n no pitch (on balks and interference calls)
              o foul tip on bunt
              p pitchout
              q swinging on pitchout
              r foul ball on pitchout
              s swinging strike
              t foul tip
              u unknown or missed pitch
              v called ball because pitcher went to his mouth
              x ball put into play by batter
              y ball put into play on pitchout

              Comment


              • #22
                Willie Mays' record against some prominent pitchers.

                Code:
                ----------------------PA----AB---H-2B--3B-HR RBI BB  SO   BA   OBP   SLG   OPS   SH  SF IBB HBP GDP
                +-----------------+-------+---+---+--+--+--+---+---+---+-----+-----+-----+-----+---+---+---+---+---+------+-------+
                 Don Drysdale        230   216  70 17  3 11  27  12  29  .324  .365  .583  .948   0   0   1   2   5              
                 Larry Jackson       162   151  51 11  1  7  24  10  12  .338  .379  .563  .942   1   0   2   0   3              
                 Warren Spahn        154   144  37  4  0 11  27   7  12  .257  .286  .514  .800   0   3   2   0   2              
                 Lew Burdette        138   126  41  8  1 10  27  11   6  .325  .377  .643 1.020   0   1   1   
                 Sandy Koufax        118    95  25  7  1  4  13  23  20  .263  .407  .484  .891   0   0   1   0   2              
                 Bob Gibson          108    92  18  1  0  3   9  16  30  .196  .315  .304  .619   0   0   1   0   0                              
                 Curt Simmons         99    83  26  4  2  6  14  15   8  .313  .424  .627 1.051   0   0   0   1   1                            
                 Jim Bunning          95    89  19  4  1  2   8   4  17  .213  .255  .348  .603   1   0   0   1   2                 
                 Robin Roberts        92    86  26  6  0  2   6   6   7  .302  .348  .442  .790   0   0   4   0   0                              
                 Bob Veale            80    67  23  0  1  6  14  13  11  .343  .450  .642 1.092   0   0   3   0   1                              
                 Steve Carlton        75    62  11  3  0  2   7  12  15  .177  .307  .323  .630   0   1   0   0   0                            
                 Fergie Jenkins       71    60  18  3  0  4   8   8  14  .300  .394  .550  .944   0   1   1   2   1                
                 Dick Ellsworth       70    60  22  2  1  6  15   8   7  .367  .457  .733 1.190   0   0   1   2   4                                
                 Jim Maloney          66    58  10  5  0  1   6   8   9  .172  .273  .310  .583   0   0   0   0   2                                
                 Don Sutton           62    51  19  2  1  3  10   9  11  .373  .484  .627 1.111   0   0   0   2   1                
                 Phil Niekro          61    54  15  2  0  2   6   5   7  .278  .344  .426  .770   0   1   0   1   4                              
                 Don Newcombe         53    51  19  4  0  2   7   2   1  .373  .396  .569  .965   0   0   0   0   0              
                 Roy Face             52    46  17  5  1  3  13   5   4  .370  .423  .717 1.140   0   1   3   0   1                     
                 Ted Abernathy        29    28   5  0  1  3   7   1   1  .179  .207  .571  .778   0   0   0   0   1                                
                 Tom Seaver           26    24   5  0  0  0   2   1   9  .208  .231  .208  .439   0   1   0   0   0                               
                 Al Downing           17    11   4  1  0  2   3   6   1  .364  .588 1.000 1.588   0   0   1   0   0                             
                 Bobby Shantz         14    12   4  0  1  1   1   2   2  .333  .429  .750 1.179   0   0   0   0   0                
                 Ryne Duren           13    13   3  0  0  1   3   0   2  .231  .231  .462  .693   0   0   0   0   0                               
                 Joe Niekro           11     9   2  1  0  0   0   2   3  .222  .364  .333  .697   0   0   0   0   0                               
                 Whitey Ford          10     9   4  0  0  0   1   1   1  .444  .500  .444  .944   0   0   0   0   1                               
                 Juan Marichal         9     8   3  0  0  0   1   0   1  .375  .375  .375  .750   1   0   0   0   0                                
                 Bob Lemon             8     5   1  1  0  0   1   3   0  .200  .500  .400  .900   0                  
                 Tommy John            7     7   0  0  0  0   0   0   3  .000  .000  .000  .000   0   0   0   0   0                               
                 Hoyt Wilhelm          7     7   3  0  1  0   0   0   1  .429  .429  .714 1.143   0   0   0   0   0                               
                 Sam McDowell          4     1   0  0  0  0   0   3   1  .000  .750  .000  .750   0   0   0   0   0                               
                 J.R. Richard          4     3   0  0  0  0   0   1   3  .000  .250  .000  .250   0   0   0   0   0                               
                 Rollie Fingers        3     3   1  0  0  0   1   0   1  .333  .333  .333  .666   0   0   0   0   0                            
                 Mudcat Grant          3     2   0  0  0  0   0   1   0  .000  .333  .000  .333   0   0   0   0   0                
                 Dick Radatz           3     3   0  0  0  0   0   0   0  .000  .000  .000  .000   0   0   0   0   0                
                 Nolan Ryan            3     3   0  0  0  0   0   0   0  .000  .000  .000  .000   0   0   0   0   0
                Bill Burgess
                Registered User
                Last edited by Bill Burgess; 03-13-2008, 09:38 PM.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Look at Randy Velarde's #'s vs Randy Johnson
                  Code:
                  PA  AB  H  2B 3B HR RBI  BB  SO   BA   OBP   SLG   OPS   SH  SF IBB HBP GDP 
                  55  49  20  4  0  0   8   6  12  .408  .473  .490  .963   0    0   0  0  1
                  Geez, he hit .408 off of him in 55 plate appearances and got on base almost half those appearances...
                  "There are three things in my life which I really love: God, my family, and baseball. The only problem - once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit.
                  ~~Al Gallagher


                  God Bless America!

                  Click here to see my baseball tribute site!

                  Click here to see the best pitcher NOT in the HOF!

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                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by csh19792001 View Post
                    GREAT resource here. You can view every pitcher batter matchup since 1957, and it includes information down to every single pitch!!!!

                    http://www.thebaseballcube.com/statistics/head2head.asp

                    Pitch Sequence Codes
                    + following pickoff throw by the catcher
                    * indicates the following pitch was blocked by the catcher.
                    . marker for play not involving the batter
                    1 pickoff throw to first
                    2 pickoff throw to second
                    3 pickoff throw to third
                    > Indicates a runner going on the pitch
                    b ball
                    c called strike
                    f foul
                    h hit batter
                    i intentional ball
                    k strike (unknown type)
                    l foul bunt
                    m missed bunt attempt
                    n no pitch (on balks and interference calls)
                    o foul tip on bunt
                    p pitchout
                    q swinging on pitchout
                    r foul ball on pitchout
                    s swinging strike
                    t foul tip
                    u unknown or missed pitch
                    v called ball because pitcher went to his mouth
                    x ball put into play by batter
                    y ball put into play on pitchout
                    This needs to be in the Stat forum :applaud:
                    Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
                    Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      My favorite match-up is a small one, Bob Brenly vs. John Candelaria

                      Bob went 15-30 for a clean .500 average, which is great but not that unusual. what is pretty unique is that Bob went 8-8 in his first 8 at bats against the Candy Man. I so fondly remember Bob standing on first after his eighth hit in a row and both him an John laughing about it!
                      “Well, I like to say I’m completely focused, right? I mean, the game’s on the line. It’s not like I’m thinking about what does barbecue Pop Chips and Cholula taste like. Because I already know that answer — it tastes friggin’ awesome!"--Brian Wilson

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by [email protected] View Post
                        Willie Mays' record against some prominent pitchers.

                        Code:
                        ----------------------PA----AB---H-2B--3B-HR RBI BB  SO   BA   OBP   SLG   OPS   SH  SF IBB HBP GDP
                        +-----------------+-------+---+---+--+--+--+---+---+---+-----+-----+-----+-----+---+---+---+---+---+------+-------+
                         
                        Warren Spahn        154   144  37  4  0 11  27   7  12  .257  .286  .514  .800   0   3   2   0   2
                        Bill, Retrosheet recently added the complete 1956 and 1954 seasons. You should update these accordingly to correct the discrepancies. For instance:

                        Code:
                        Pitcher           AB   H  2B  3B  HR  BB IBB  SO HBP  SH  SF   AVG   OBP   SLG
                        Warren Spahn     177  52   7   1  14  17   4  14   0   0   4  .294  .348  .582
                        Don Drysdale     227  75  17   3  13  14   1  29   2   0   0  .330  .374  .604 
                        Bob Gibson        92  18   1   0   3  16   1  30   0   0   0  .196  .315  .304
                        Absolutely incredible. Mays had 75 hits against Drysdale!!! And they faced off for basically 14 seasons, yet went heads up 241 times. Mays truly clobbered Drydale, did really well against Spahn (for the years we have currently), but boy, did Bob Gibson OWN him.

                        Gibson has the ultimate bragging rights on Mays- I'm sure he's aware of his domination, if even not exactly the extent of it. I bet he never fails to give Mays a jab or two when they meet up....

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Would anyone else like to contribute to our collection of Hall of Fame Hitter/Pitcher match-ups?

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            From Retrosheet.org

                            Babe Ruth against AL greats, 1920-31:

                            Code:
                            Pitcher           AB   H  2B  3B  HR  BB IBB  SO HBP  SH  SF   AVG   OBP   SLG
                            Walter Johnson    63  19   6   1   5  14   0  12   0   0   0  .302  .429  .667 i
                            Stan Coveleski    47  13   4   0   2  28   0   7   1   0   0  .277  .553  .489 i
                            Urban Shocker     76  20   5   2   4  21   0  24   1   1   0  .263  .429  .539 i
                            George Uhle      110  37   6   1   4  20   0  25   0   0   0  .336  .438  .518 i
                            Wes Ferrell       33  10   2   0   1   7   0   6   0   0   0  .303  .425  .455 i
                            Red Ruffing       22   6   0   0   1   5   0   4   0   0   0  .273  .407  .409 i
                            Red Faber         98  23   4   2   4  22   0  15   0   0   0  .235  .375  .439 i
                            Ted Lyons         63  17   2   1   2  11   0  10   0   2   0  .270  .378  .429 i
                            Lefty Grove       59  18   2   0   1   5   0  18   0   0   0  .305  .359  .390 i
                            Note: A huge percentage of PBP data from before 1952 are still missing!!!

                            Ted Williams, 1953-60
                            Code:
                            Pitcher           AB   H  2B  3B  HR  BB IBB  SO HBP  SH  SF   AVG   OBP   SLG
                            Bob Feller        13   6   1   0   5   6   1   2   0   0   0  .462  .632 1.692 
                            Jim Bunning       61  23   5   0   8  15   5   7   0   0   0  .377  .500  .852 
                            Early Wynn        65  23   3   0   7  14   4   3   0   0   0  .354  .468  .723 i
                            Whitey Ford       42  16   3   0   1  12   1   4   0   0   1  .381  .509  .524 i
                            
                            Billy Pierce      62  14   1   1   1  20   2   7   0   0   0  .226  .415  .323 i
                            Jack Harshman     32   5   1   0   0   3   0   7   0   0   0  .156  .229  .188

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Would love to see more contributions to this excellent thread.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Wow, that is fascinating data on Ruth, Chris. I wonder if anything else has become avaiable in the past four years. So, I am getting a line of BA .285 OBP .420 and SLG .490 against the nine best pitchers from Ruth's prime. His slugging percentage against these guys is a bit underwhelming. Does anyone have similar data for Cobb and Williams?
                                cbenson5
                                Registered User
                                Last edited by cbenson5; 10-03-2013, 12:21 PM.
                                "I never saw anyone like Ty Cobb. No one even close to him. He was the greatest all time ballplayer. That guy was superhuman, amazing."
                                -Casey Stengel

                                Comment

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