Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

yaz vs kaline

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • yaz vs kaline

    Rather similar guys in many ways. Who's better?
    49
    yaztremski
    59.18%
    29
    kaline
    40.82%
    20

  • #2
    --Their career lines are very similar. How they got there is very different though. Kaline was very good for a long time, but didn't really have a disernable peak. Yaz had a monster peak, but was merely pretty good outside it. I like Yaz's profile a lttle better.

    Comment


    • #3
      Kaline comes out waaaaaay ahead in my view. One, there's the fact that he's arguably the best defensive corner outfielder of all time. Two, there's the fact that he was actually a legitimately great player, unlike Yaz, who was a legitimately pretty good player who had a fluky Brady Anderson couple of seasons where he played over his head. Plus, Yaz didn't have a battery named after him. Gotta go with Kaline.
      "Simply put, the passion, interest and tradition surrounding baseball in New York is unmatched."

      Sean McAdam, ESPN.com

      Comment


      • #4
        --I'm not sure you can fluke your way into leading the league in OPS+ 4 times.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by ElHalo
          Kaline comes out waaaaaay ahead in my view. One, there's the "fact" that he's arguably the best defensive corner outfielder of all time.
          The other is the "fact" that he's arguably not even in the top 15 among defensive RF ,whereas Yaz is probably in the top 10 of defensive LF

          <Two, there's the fact that he was actually a legitimately great player, unlike Yaz, who was a legitimately pretty good player who had a fluky Brady Anderson couple of seasons where he played over his head.>

          Leave it to a New Yorker to give you an "accurate" picture of a BoSoxer

          <Plus, Yaz didn't have a battery named after him.>

          And believe me, New Yorkers know about throwing batteries
          Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
          Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

          Comment


          • #6
            Wow..I agree with EH. Kaline is the best defensive RF in the game's history by PCA...and I have no idea how Yaz can be seen as anywhere close to Kaline as a player.

            Comment


            • #7
              Yaz is a player with a monster peak and very good career value, but was only okay outside of his peak. Kaline was a player who was very consistent and basically put up the same numbers every year. He ended up with lots of great years, but not a really great peak (ironically the opposite of Yaz).

              My two main criteria are career value and peak value, in which Yaz is probably better than Kaline in both, so I go with Yaz, although I could be persuaded to go the other way.

              Yaz had a huge home/road split, Kaline had a pretty big one but not as big. I'm not willing to drop Yaz below him for that, like I do with Raines and Stargell and actuallly got into a debate about before.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by RuthMayBond
                The other is the "fact" that he's arguably not even in the top 15 among defensive RF ,whereas Yaz is probably in the top 10 of defensive LF
                RMB,

                I know we all like to argue and kid around and have a good time, but please, [U]DO NOT[/I] change quotations when you're quoting things. I didn't have quotation marks around the word "fact" in my earlier post. Alterating quotations is just about the worst ettiquette breach you can make in online discussion groups. As a fellow loyal BBFeverite, I'd ask you: Please don't do that again.
                "Simply put, the passion, interest and tradition surrounding baseball in New York is unmatched."

                Sean McAdam, ESPN.com

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by SABR Matt
                  Wow..I agree with EH. Kaline is the best defensive RF in the game's history by PCA...and I have no idea how Yaz can be seen as anywhere close to Kaline as a player.
                  Similar production for 2400 more plate apps?
                  Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
                  Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ElHalo
                    RMB,

                    I know we all like to argue and kid around and have a good time, but please, [U]DO NOT[/I] change quotations when you're quoting things. I didn't have quotation marks around the word "fact" in my earlier post. Alterating quotations is just about the worst ettiquette breach you can make in online discussion groups. As a fellow loyal BBFeverite, I'd ask you: Please don't do that again.
                    My bad, shouldn't'a dunnit, but will you stop proclaiming "facts" that ain't necessarily so?
                    Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
                    Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by SABR Matt
                      Wow..I agree with EH. Kaline is the best defensive RF in the game's history by PCA...and I have no idea how Yaz can be seen as anywhere close to Kaline as a player.
                      It's when it's not enough that you think Yaz wasn't as good, you make it sound like he wasn't good enough for Kaline to wipe his shoes on
                      Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
                      Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        My vote was Kaline, but I have no strong feelings about it.
                        Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I'll take Kaline in a blow out.

                          Yaz had 3 fluke seasons in an era littered with alot of marginal players (with a high caliber top end) putting up bizarre and abnormally high seasons. You take away those 3 years that he cracked 40 plus home runs and take the other 20 full seasons he played in MLB you are not going to see alot of top 5-10 finishes in stats other then average, runs and walks. Which are important but taken as a whole Yaz was Al Oliver/Robin Yount with the bat not Billy Williams, Roy Sievers, Bobby Bonds, Rocky Colavito, Norm Cash, Lee May or any other hitter that you might think Yaz has more power then but doesn't.

                          Jim Gentile, Leon Wagner, Jimmie Hall, Jim Ray Hart, Mack Jones, Ken Harrelson, Paul Blair, Bill Melton, Nate Colbert, Rico Petrocelli, Tommy Harper, Bob Robertson, Bob Bailey, Dick Dietz, Cito Gaston, George Scott, Willie Montanez, Bobby Darwin, Earl Williams, Dave May, Charlie Spikes, Jeff Burroughs, John Milner, Rick Monday, Bill Robinson, Joe Ferguson, Dave Johnson.

                          From say 1960 to 1975 these guys were all like Yaz in alot of ways. Strange large home run totals in a season or two or 3. That whole era was unstable in my opinion. Very few continually good players...that includes pitchers. Players would have years where they would have fluke seasons. Yaz simply had 3 fluke power years. He did not have 40 Home Run power. He didn't have 30 home run power. Just like Kluszewski didnt have 40 Home Run pop. Tony Perez, George Foster and Darrell Evans also had similiar fluke power seasons. Yaz's average was helped a great deal by Fenway.

                          You take away his short top end and he is Rusty Staub with the bat.

                          Kaline was consistent and wasn't hitting in Fenway.

                          Kaline never had sub 400 slugging years in his prime. Kaline never hit 250 and 260 during his prime years.

                          Looking at them and judging. Here is what I see. Power? tie. Average Kaline big. Slugging Kaline. Base running? Kaline was a little better. Outfield? Kaline was better. Consistency? Kaline big.
                          "If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn't thinking"

                          Gen. Patton

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by pretorius
                            I'll take Kaline in a blow out.

                            Yaz had 3 fluke seasons. Yaz simply had 3 fluke power years.
                            So we should just pretend they never happened.

                            <He did not have 40 Home Run power.>

                            Actually he did three times but you seem intent on ignoring it

                            <He didn't have 30 home run power.>

                            Um, Kaline never actually did

                            <Looking at them and judging. Power? Tie>

                            Power, defined as ?

                            <Average Kaline big.>

                            If you call 1.14 to 1.08 "big"

                            <Slugging Kaline.>

                            Slugging, defined as ??

                            <Outfield? Kaline was better.>

                            Kaline 0x PO king, 2x A king, 101 adjusted production rate, 152 adjusted fielding runs above replacement, 11 adjusted fielding runs above average

                            Yaz 4x PO king, 9x A king, 102 adjusted production rate, 208 adjusted fielding runs above replacement, 36 adjusted fielding runs above average

                            If you guys want to call that a big advantage for Kaline, I can't stop ya
                            Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
                            Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Not pretend they never happened just not credit them as a skill trait as if Harmon Killebrew hit them.

                              Throughout his massively long career Yaz showed he was not a 40 Home Run hitter.

                              Just as Brady Anderson and Luis Gonzalez are not fifty Home Run Hitters and Ed Walsh isn't a 40 win pitcher. Is Norm Cash a 360 hitter?

                              You do not define and label someone based upon their anomalies.

                              Michael jackson isn't a white man.

                              Yaz was not a 40 Home Run slugger. A full 23 year career and he only broke the 30 HR plateau 3 times and only cracked 20 8 times in all. 4 of those times just barely.

                              If a man hits this 19, 22, 14, 16, 17, 19, 19, 44, 13, 17, 20,18 for his Home Run totals over a 12 year career what kind of power did he have? Like 18 HR power. I do not dismiss the 44 HR year but it isn't indicative of his actual home run hitting ability.

                              Kaline had consistent 20-22 Home Run power. Yaz had about the same...actually a little less.

                              Kaline finished in the top 10 for Home Runs 8 times in his career.

                              Yaz had 6 top 10 finishes for Home Runs.

                              Kaline broke the 20 Home Run plateau more times then Yaz did.

                              Power is Home Runs and slugging as I see it and I do not judge players on their abberations. I do not call Hack Wilson the greatest RBI man ever. I do not call Earl Webb the best doubles man of all-time.

                              As for average. Yaz played in Fenway and was extremely inconsistent. A man who could hit 308 one year and 265 the next and did it often. Kaline batted below 270 twice in his entire career. Yaz did it 8 times and nearly did it several more times.

                              Kaline's average is 12 points higher. Despite not playing in Fenway and he get's extra points for being consistently around 300 or better his whole career.

                              What would you rather have? A guy who hits 310 one year and 270 the next or a guy who hits 303 one year and 297 the next?

                              Kaline by reputation and observation despite playing in Detroit and not Boston is regarded as 1 of the greatest outfielders of all-time.

                              I think Kaline has a clear lead or is at the very least even on every concievable facet of the game when compared to Yaz.
                              "If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn't thinking"

                              Gen. Patton

                              Comment

                              Ad Widget

                              Collapse
                              Working...
                              X