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yaz vs kaline

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  • PVNICK
    replied
    Yaz may have peaked higher but Kaline had a 12 or so year run (55-68ish) vs. 7-8 for Yaz (63-70). Also Kaline had to contend with a peak form Mickey Mantle during his best years for the title of ALs best and that was a battle only a handful of players that ever played could win.

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  • Jackaroo Dave
    replied
    I chose Kaline because he was always good. He did have two below average seasons at the end, but Yaz had 6. Yaz had a higher peak and a longer career, but Kaline had more good-to-very-good years.

    One thing that doesn't get mentioned about Yaz is that for a lot of Boston fans he was an annual disappointment for about 15 years. It's not fair; he set himself an impossible standard in 67. And there was no pleasing those fans, who were understandably bitter. But his decline started early and went on and on, while Kaline never seemed to have a down year until the end.

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  • Cowtipper
    replied
    Guess I'm in the minority, but I went with Al Kaline.

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  • 64Cards
    replied
    Originally posted by oscargamblesfro
    It's been an interesting poll so far, and I've learned a lot of things. Never saw Kaline play, but I did catch Yastremski toward the end of his career, he had good though not great years in '77 and '79, but frankly hurt the club from 80-83 by sticking around too long. Both guys are considered to be legends/icons by fans of their respective clubs for playing a long time with 1 team, both are HOF'ers, and I think few people would argue with either guy's selection. Yaz and Kaline are similar in that they hold a place as not the best Red Sox or Tiger ever, but as a strong and beloved symbol of their franchises. Got a couple of questions/ concerns..

    1. Was Kaline ever considered at any point to be the best all-around player in the league, if not all of baseball? Because in the late 60's and start of the 70's, some people, rightly or wrongly, considered Yaz as such. Maybe because Yaz had such a great peak, it elevated him in the eyes of the general public: whereas Kaline, outside of Detroit, was always highly respected, but still flew under the radar a little bit, possibly because he never had the monster seasons that Yaz had?

    2. Was Kaline, toward the end, criticized for hanging around too long and thwarting the progress of the minor leaguers in his organization like Yaz was? Was Kaline's decline as steep as Yaz's was at the end?
    1]I can't remember Kaline ever being considered the best player in the AL. Mantle was, without a doubt, the best till 65. And Maris may have gotten some support in consecutive MVP seasons of 60 & 61. The NL really had quite a few players who were better than Kaline during the peak of his career, say from his great rookie season till mid-60's. I'll toss out Mays, Aaron, Frank Robinson, Mathews, Cepeda, Clemente, Boyer, Banks, Snider [til the LA move] and Tommy Davis [early 60's]
    2]not sure about this part, looking at the numbers, they still weren't too bad at the plate, no doubt their careers were extended by being a DH. They were both total pros, I would think their presence on a roster would benefit younger players.

    Yaz had much more recognition than Kaline during their careers, after his monster MVP season in 67. But as stated earlier, both were similar players who both had long careers and a lot of good, but not neccesarily great seasons. Both are worthy HOFers.

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  • Victory Faust
    replied
    I'm a lifelong Tiger fan, so I'm prejudiced. I'll go with Kaline. Every time he threw the baseball, half of Detroit drooled.

    I'll never forget one game where Kaline's greatness didn't show up in the box score, but was on display for all to see. It was late in the game, if I remember correctly, with the tying run at third and less than two out.

    There was a flyout to medium-deep right field -- deep enough for the runner to score in most cases. But Kaline threw an absolute bullet home, one bounce, right on the money. Catcher Bill Freehan didn't have to move his mitt. The runner scampered back to third base, and the knowledgeable Detroit fans gave Mr. Kaline a standing O.

    Yaz was great, but I'll go with Kaline.

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  • Edgartohof
    replied
    Originally posted by EricGotMunsoned
    I'll take Kaline

    Better BA, Slg Pct., better fielder.

    Plus he has the almighty ring that eluded Mr. Yastrzemski.
    Could he really help playing on a team that had a curse?

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  • Tram2Lou
    replied
    I'll take Kaline

    Better BA, Slg Pct., better fielder.

    Plus he has the almighty ring that eluded Mr. Yastrzemski.

    Leave a comment:


  • oscargamblesfro
    replied
    It's been an interesting poll so far, and I've learned a lot of things. Never saw Kaline play, but I did catch Yastremski toward the end of his career, he had good though not great years in '77 and '79, but frankly hurt the club from 80-83 by sticking around too long. Both guys are considered to be legends/icons by fans of their respective clubs for playing a long time with 1 team, both are HOF'ers, and I think few people would argue with either guy's selection. Yaz and Kaline are similar in that they hold a place as not the best Red Sox or Tiger ever, but as a strong and beloved symbol of their franchises. Got a couple of questions/ concerns..

    1. Was Kaline ever considered at any point to be the best all-around player in the league, if not all of baseball? Because in the late 60's and start of the 70's, some people, rightly or wrongly, considered Yaz as such. Maybe because Yaz had such a great peak, it elevated him in the eyes of the general public: whereas Kaline, outside of Detroit, was always highly respected, but still flew under the radar a little bit, possibly because he never had the monster seasons that Yaz had?

    2. Was Kaline, toward the end, criticized for hanging around too long and thwarting the progress of the minor leaguers in his organization like Yaz was? Was Kaline's decline as steep as Yaz's was at the end?
    Last edited by oscargamblesfro; 01-18-2006, 08:21 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • RuthMayBond
    replied
    Originally posted by pretorius
    Kaline was a more efficient base runner SB wise. He hit alot more triples then Yaz did.
    OK, but if we're going to dock Yaz because he got assists because of a short field, then he shouldn't be docked on triples because they wouldn't roll as far

    Leave a comment:


  • RuthMayBond
    replied
    Originally posted by ElHalo
    Sorry; my internet experience grew up on the old UseNet newsgroups where nettiquette was key, and I was taught from an early age that there are only two things in online discussions that just aren't allowed... one is changing around people's quotes, the other is invoking Godwin's Law (i.e., comparing someone to Hitler).
    You weren't taught that saying "If something didn't happen in New York it isn't important" isn't bad etiquette?

    <As far as the other goes... I view Kaline as a top 40 all time guy.>

    A corner OF with a 134 OPS+ and an excessive home advantage at his home park?

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  • pretorius
    replied
    Kaline was a more efficient base runner SB wise. He hit alot more triples then Yaz did.

    Kaline was even in the top 10 for stolen bases 5 times. Yaz never was in the top 10.

    Granted that people weren't swiping bases in the 50's really so Kaline's 5 top 10 finishes aren't really impressive.

    I would still say that Kaline hold's a clear base-running edge.

    Leave a comment:


  • ElHalo
    replied
    Originally posted by RuthMayBond
    My bad, shouldn't'a dunnit, but will you stop proclaiming "facts" that ain't necessarily so?
    Sorry; my internet experience grew up on the old UseNet newsgroups where nettiquette was key, and I was taught from an early age that there are only two things in online discussions that just aren't allowed... one is changing around people's quotes, the other is invoking Godwin's Law (i.e., comparing someone to Hitler).

    As far as the other goes... I view Kaline as a top 40 all time guy. I don't really view Yaz as a top 80 all time guy. So they're not really close, to me.

    Leave a comment:


  • yanks0714
    replied
    Kaline.
    Yaz had 3 outstanding years that were better than Al's best. But Kaline was remarably consistent. Yaz was not. I prefer to know what someone is going to produce and produce on a regular basis. Kaline did that and Yaz did not.

    Yaz was not a good base runner. He wasn't as good as HE thought he was. Yaz got gunned down more than a few times. Kaline, OTOH, was known as good smart base runner.

    Yes, Yax was good LF'er and played the Green Monster extremely well. I suspect he got a fair share of assists courtesy of that wall from runners trying to make it two. Don't forget that Fenway's LF did exactly require a long accurate throw either. I'd really like to see Yaz' Home'Road assist splits if possible. I'd be willing to bet they strongly favor Fenway.
    Kaline was a solid but unspactacular outfielder. He had a strong arm accurate arm.

    Leave a comment:


  • oscargamblesfro
    replied
    even in years when yaz didn't hit 20, he was still by the standards of the time often hitting a pretty decent amount of homers, for instance, in the 70's guys could have only 25 homers and be , say 4th in the league. dick allen led with only 32 once. and i'm not sure if kaline was really faster, yaz was no speed demon but could steal bases when he was younger.

    Leave a comment:


  • oscargamblesfro
    replied
    Originally posted by ElHalo
    Kaline comes out waaaaaay ahead in my view. One, there's the fact that he's arguably the best defensive corner outfielder of all time. Two, there's the fact that he was actually a legitimately great player, unlike Yaz, who was a legitimately pretty good player who had a fluky Brady Anderson couple of seasons where he played over his head. Plus, Yaz didn't have a battery named after him. Gotta go with Kaline.

    With all due respect, and I don't mean this as a remonstrance, can't stand when people flip out over opinions and such.. i realize personal observation only means so much, but to compare yaz to brady anderson is kinda insulting to yaz. not that anderson was awful, but yaz is generally regarded as a top 10 lf.

    Leave a comment:

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