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Best Dodger 1B-Garvey vs Hodges

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  • Best Dodger 1B-Garvey vs Hodges

    By the offensive numbers, per the Baseball Almanac analysis it looks like Garvey has an edge. Of course, defensively, Hodges has the edge as he does in the 'totality' of his career in managing a 9th place Mets team to the World Series.

    Steve Garvey
    Black Ink: Batting - 12 (187) (Average HOFer ~ 27)
    Gray Ink: Batting - 142 (106) (Average HOFer ~ 144)
    HOF Standards: Batting - 31.5 (251) (Average HOFer ~ 50)
    HOF Monitor: Batting - 130.5 (99) (Likely HOFer > 100)


    Gil Hodges

    Black Ink: Batting - 2 (571) (Average HOFer ~ 27)
    Gray Ink: Batting - 128 (135) (Average HOFer ~ 144)
    HOF Standards: Batting - 31.7 (247) (Average HOFer ~ 50)
    HOF Monitor: Batting - 83.0 (197) (Likely HOFer > 100)
    52
    Jake Daubert
    5.77%
    3
    Steve Garvey
    17.31%
    9
    Gil Hodges
    65.38%
    34
    Eric Karros
    3.85%
    2
    Wes Parker
    0.00%
    0
    Other
    7.69%
    4
    Johnny
    Delusion, Life's Coping Mechanism

  • #2
    I won't vote for him, but I think Karros deserves mention. Do you want a poll for this?
    Johnson and now Goligoski gone.
    I hope that's all.

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    • #3
      Good post, I think Garvey and Hodges were very similar, tough call between them

      Chisox - my reaction when you included Karros was that he wasn't on the Dodgers that long, but looking him up, he was on the team 12 years, and actually played more games at first for the Dodgers then Garvey did. I hadn't realized that. But he still falls below Garvey / Hodges

      Tough call between Garvey and Hodges, but I'd give Hodges the edge. Had more power, better defensive, better OBP despite lower BA, and played a significant amount more games at 1B then Garvey did - 1851 - 1470. Garvey came up as a 3Bmen, and really only played 10 years ast he Dodgers 1Bmen (as noted above, less than Karros). Hodges was essentially their starting 1Bmen for 14 years, with some other positions sprinkled in.

      I might be splitting hairs with the time spent at 1B for the Dodgers, but I think they are close enough that the longevity, extra power and defense would give Hodges the title of "best Dogers 1Bmen", IMO.

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      • #4
        I'd take Hodges, then Garvey, and then Karros for the guys mentioned already, but for Dodgers 1B, if you include Karros, shouldn't Jake Daubert be in the mix too? He was better than Karros, at least in the context of his own time, and played for them for 9 years, which should be long enough to qualify.

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        • #5
          I, also, like Hodges. It is not by a wide margin and defense does make a difference.
          Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball

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          • #6
            --Several people have mentioned Hodges defense as a big advantage. He does have a good defensive rep, but Garvey was also a top defender. Not sure that the difference is very large or who it favors. Probably a pretty tiny factor in this comparison of firstbasemen. Its not like we're talking about Kieth Hernandez and Dick Stuart here.

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            • #7
              how does wes parker fall

              man, nice point regarding karos. i was also surprised regarding karos's longevity as a dodger.
              so how about wes parker. for 9 years (out which he got 6 gold gloves) he was considered one of the best defensive players and did have one strong year at the plate.
              of all the 1B's mentioned, he is probably the best defensively. i guess how high you rank him depends upon the value you have on defense vs offense. so maybe gil comes done as the best of the lot since he did more things well.

              here is wes's stats from baseball almanac:
              Black Ink: Batting - 3 (495) (Average HOFer ~ 27)
              Gray Ink: Batting - 22 (906) (Average HOFer ~ 144)
              HOF Standards: Batting - 10.3 (1556) (Average HOFer ~ 50)
              HOF Monitor: Batting - 15.5 (872) (Likely HOFer > 100)
              Overall Rank in parentheses.
              Johnny
              Delusion, Life's Coping Mechanism

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              • #8
                Garvey started as a third baseman, and couldn't make the throw across the infield. I saw them both, and in my opinion, Hodges had a better arm, and was also better defensively. Plus, he was more of a "Team Player" than holier-than-thou Garvey.

                Bob

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                • #9
                  Where's Dolph Camilli? He was pretty darn good player in his own right and may be better than any of those listed.

                  Yankees Fan Since 1957

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by yanks0714
                    Where's Dolph Camilli? He was pretty darn good player in his own right and may be better than any of those listed.
                    I second that (but voted for Hodges in the poll).

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                    • #11
                      What is this? A poll between the two least deserving players who have somewhat of a HOF campaign? Looking at some things, I'm inclined to go with Hodges. Garvey's SLG and OBP weren't that good from first base. Hodges is overrated as a slugger because of a variety of factors but is still better than Garvey.

                      Dolph Camilli may just be better than both of them.

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                      • #12
                        some Dolf talk then

                        Well, then throw in your opinion on Dolf. He is lesser known than Hodges or Garvey so illumination on the subject will help the rest of us.
                        Johnny
                        Delusion, Life's Coping Mechanism

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by johnny
                          Well, then throw in your opinion on Dolf. He is lesser known than Hodges or Garvey so illumination on the subject will help the rest of us.
                          I was in the middle of making a rather large post which gave an overview of the baseball career of Dolph Camilli, but my computer crashed and I lost all the data. But, to try my best to give you the same image....

                          Camilli was the anti-Garvey. Garvey was overrated as a player because although he was a very good contact hitter he almost never walked and had only fair power for a first baseman. Dolph was a walking machine (top five in walks five times, led twice), who had big time power (top 10 in HRs eight times, led once, also had a 124 rel. SLG). However, his BA over his career was below league average.

                          Camilli played the first part of his career mostly with the Phillies (and played very well) until he was traded to the Brooklyn Dodgers in 1938 for Eddie Morgan. It proved to be a great trade for the Brooklynites as Morgan never even played a game for the Phillies and Camilli became the great slugger the Dodgers needed. He finished top 5 in home runs for the next five years and was the key player for the great 1941 Dodgers (he was MVP that year and led the league in home runs and RBI).

                          Looking things over, though, he's not as good as Garvey. Although Camilli did have a better peak with the '41 MVP, he didn't play nearly as long, and also played in the NL at a time when it was considerably weaker than the AL. Camilli also played his entire career in very favorable parks, the Baker Bowl in Philadelphia and Ebbets Field in Brooklyn. It is reasonable to claim had he played in another place he would not have been nearly as good. He also wasn't a very good fielder as struck out a ton. Garvey, although he couldn't walk, was a very good fielder and played in what I think was probably the toughest league of all time, and played in Dodger Stadium and Jack Murphy, which are a LONG way from the Baker Bowl and Ebbets Field. He wasn't as good per game, but he played for much longer. Camilli is very underrated, Garvey is very overrated, but that doesn't mean Camilli was better.
                          Last edited by 538280; 01-21-2006, 07:21 PM.

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                          • #14
                            Although I am too young to have been at the Baker or Ebbets locales from what I have read I think your spot on in regards to the Baker Bowl/Ebbets Fields and Dodger/Murphy Stadiums remarks.
                            Nice to read a thoughtful description on Mr. Camilli.
                            Johnny
                            Delusion, Life's Coping Mechanism

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                            • #15
                              I, too, think Camilli should be included in the discussion, but he only played six of his twelve seasons with the Dodgers.
                              Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball

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