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Top Pitchers of All Time Poll-#17

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  • Top Pitchers of All Time Poll-#17

    This is the 15th installment of the pitcher polls. The rules are simple, submit your top 10 pitcher list (minus already elected pitchers, which I"ll get to in a minute). Lists must be clearly numbered 1-10 and please make it easy to identify who you're voting for. 12 points will be awarded to your #1 selection, 9 to #2, 8 to #3, 7 to #4, and so on. The pitcher with the most points will win the poll. In the event of a tie, the pitcher with the most first place votes will win. In the event that they have the same amount of first place votes as well, we'll have a runoff poll that lasts two days between the two tied pitchers. Also, if you make any really strange decisions, you'll be asked to justify them. If you don't justify them, then your ballot won't be counted. So far we have elected these 10 pitchers:

    1.Walter Johnson
    2.Roger Clemens
    3.Lefty Grove
    4.Cy Young
    5.Pete Alexander
    6.Christy Mathewson
    7.Greg Maddux
    8.Tom Seaver
    9.Warren Spahn
    10.Satchel Paige
    11.Randy Johnson
    12.Bob Feller
    13.Kid Nichols
    14.Bob Gibson
    15.Steve Carlton
    16.Pedro Martinez

    Last time it was a complete landslide in favor of Pedro. He almost doubled the total of the second place man. Here are the top 10 vote getters from last poll (first place votes in parenthesis):

    Pedro Martinez-159 (10)
    Smokey Joe Williams-90 (2)
    Sandy Koufax-84 (1)
    Carl Hubbell-84 (1)
    Juan Marichal-75 (1)
    Mordecai Brown-55
    Whitey Ford-43
    Jim Palmer-36
    Robin Roberts-35
    Nolan Ryan-28

  • #2
    1 Whitey Ford
    2 Sandy Koufax
    3 Mordecai Brown
    4 Juan Marichel
    5 Mariano Rivera
    6 "Bullet" Joe Rogan
    7 Jose Mendez
    8 Carl Hubbel
    9 Smokey Joe Williams
    10 Nolan Ryan

    Comment


    • #3
      1) Juan Marichal
      2) Smokey Joe Wiliams
      3) Sandy Koufax
      4) Carl Hubbell
      5) Robin Roberts
      6) Jim Palmer
      7) Dazzy Vance
      8) Hal Newhouser
      9) Ed Walsh
      10) Nolan Ryan
      --in queue; John Clarkson, Miner Brown, Whitey Ford and Gaylord Perry.

      Comment


      • #4
        1-Joe Williams
        2-Mordecai Brown
        3-Juan Marichal
        4-Nolan Ryan
        5-Robin Roberts
        6-Dazzy Vance
        7-Carl Hubbell
        8-Ed Walsh
        9-Rube Foster
        10-Sandy Koufax

        Comment


        • #5
          1. Joe Williams
          2. Juan Marichal
          3. Sandy Koufax
          4. Whitey Ford
          5. Jim Palmer
          6. Carl Hubbell
          7. Robin Roberts
          8. Dazzy Vance
          9. Nolan Ryan
          10. Ed Walsh
          "The numbers are what brought me here; as it appears they brought you."
          - Danielle Rousseau

          Comment


          • #6
            1. Tim Keefe
            2. Joe Williams
            3. John Clarkson
            4. Nolan Ryan
            5. Whitey Ford
            6. Eddie Plank
            7. Carl Hubbell
            8. Al Spalding
            9. Sandy Koufax
            10. Mordecai Brown

            Comment


            • #7
              1. Koufax
              2. Brown
              3. J. Williams
              4. Marichal
              5. Hubbell
              6. Walsh
              7. Clarkson
              8. Roberts
              9. Keefe
              10. Rogan
              Dave Bill Tom George Mark Bob Ernie Soupy Dick Alex Sparky
              Joe Gary MCA Emanuel Sonny Dave Earl Stan
              Jonathan Neil Roger Anthony Ray Thomas Art Don
              Gates Philip John Warrior Rik Casey Tony Horace
              Robin Bill Ernie JEDI

              Comment


              • #8
                1. Smokey Joe Williams
                2. Sandy Koufax
                3. Carl Hubbell
                4. Jim Palmer
                5. Juan Marichal
                6. Ed Walsh
                7. Whitey Ford
                8. Robin Roberts
                9. Nolan Ryan
                10. Three Finger Brown

                Comment


                • #9
                  I am curious just what criteria is being used to put Joe Williams on this list. Negro league players cannot be fairly evaluated against MLB players there is simply no statistical measure available. I guess there is the "enlightenment" factor that such an inclusion gives the perception of.... might as well put some of the alltime great female softball pitchers on the list too.
                  My eyes perceive the present, but my roots are imbedded deeply in the grandeur of the past. "Chief Meyers"


                  MLBC

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Jestre
                    .... might as well put some of the alltime great female softball pitchers on the list too.
                    Actually, I could see that happening. I can't knock female pitching.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Jestre
                      I am curious just what criteria is being used to put Joe Williams on this list. Negro league players cannot be fairly evaluated against MLB players there is simply no statistical measure available.
                      This is true, but Williams pitched for over 20 years against both black and white competition, and everyone who saw him came away impressed (such as John McGraw). Williams would have been a superstar in any league.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by blackout805
                        let me guess, your name is Dave Duke?

                        Brilliant.... nope just an average dude that doesnt subscribe to the PC, metrosexual, touchy feely, leftwing crap that abounds today. You want to have a thread dedicated to rating the Negro League Pitchers then fine, but there is just no way to realistically compare Negro League pitchers to MLB pitchers. Including Negro League players in a list is simply pretentious and tokenistic.
                        Last edited by Jestre; 01-24-2006, 08:42 AM.
                        My eyes perceive the present, but my roots are imbedded deeply in the grandeur of the past. "Chief Meyers"


                        MLBC

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by abacab
                          This is true, but Williams pitched for over 20 years against both black and white competition, and everyone who saw him came away impressed (such as John McGraw). Williams would have been a superstar in any league.
                          Granted that is probably true, but that has no bearing on rating the top pitchers because there is no way to rate him against the top pitchers. It would actually be easier to rate how pitchers like Joe Wood, Mark Fidrych and Herb Score would have been sans injury. I feel pretty safe in assuming that nobody that included Williams on their list ever saw him pitch or has any substantial body of statistics on how Williams fared against MLB lineups in a meaningful game.
                          My eyes perceive the present, but my roots are imbedded deeply in the grandeur of the past. "Chief Meyers"


                          MLBC

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Jestre
                            Brilliant.... nope just an average dude that doesnt subscribe to the PC, metrosexual, touchy feely, leftwing crap that abounds today. You want to have a thread dedicated to rating the Negro League Pitchers then fine, but there is just no way to realistically compare Negro League pitchers to MLB pitchers. Including Negro League players in a list is simply pretentious and tokenisitc.
                            First of all, blackout's comment was uncalled for. Second, several studies have been done to assess the greatness of Negro League players, and several experts on baseball history have made lists including Negro Leaguers against major leaguers, so this is not "leftwing crap," it's an honest attempt to put Negro Leaguers in historical context. Third, yes it is very subjective, but so is comparing a 1890s player to a 1990s player. The whole exercise is subjective by nature.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by abacab
                              First of all, blackout's comment was uncalled for. Second, several studies have been done to assess the greatness of Negro League players, and several experts on baseball history have made lists including Negro Leaguers against major leaguers, so this is not "leftwing crap," it's an honest attempt to put Negro Leaguers in historical context. Third, yes it is very subjective, but so is comparing a 1890s player to a 1990s player. The whole exercise is subjective by nature.
                              Comparing 1890's players to 1990's players at least has some base points from which to make a statistical analysis. The Negro Leagues were not only completely separate from the MLB but statistics from the Negro Leagues are incomplete. Many of the Negro League Stars rely on anecdotal supplementation to make their case for greatness. Its simply a case of apples and oranges. One cannot make a comparison of MLB players and Negro League players and state with any confidence that one is better than or worse than the other.
                              My eyes perceive the present, but my roots are imbedded deeply in the grandeur of the past. "Chief Meyers"


                              MLBC

                              Comment

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