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What might have been . . .The Black Sox

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  • #46
    Let's see how they stack up:

    1B: Gandil/Daubert: Reds
    2B: Collins/Rath: Sox
    SS: Risberg/Kopf: push
    3B: Weaver/Groh: Reds
    LF: Jackson/Duncan: Sox
    CF: Roush/Felsch: Reds
    RF: Liebold/Neale: Sox
    C: Schalk/Wingo: Sox

    Pitching:

    Chicago had a better one-two punch with Cicotte and Williams over the Reds' Eller and Reuther, but the Reds' third-best pitcher, Salee, was better in 1919 than Chicago's counterpart, Red Faber. Overall, it looks like the Reds may have had a deeper staff.


    I'd say the Reds stack up okay against the Sox. That doesn't mean Chicago wasn't the more talented team, but I don't think it's an absolute slam dunk that they'd have beaten the Reds if the Series hadn't been fixed.
    "Hey Mr. McGraw! Can I pitch to-day?"

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Victory Faust View Post
      I don't think it's an absolute slam dunk that they'd have beaten the Reds if the Series hadn't been fixed.
      That was my point.

      Sure the Sox may have beaten them, they may even have had better odds of winning, but this thread began with posts that just assumed they could have taken the Reds with ease- and I don't think you should assume that a team with a nearly .700 winning percentage is just going to be a walk over....





      ...then again, look at the '54 Indians.
      "Here's a crazy thought I've always had: if they cut three fingers off each hand, I'd really be a great hitter because then I could level off better." Paul Waner (lifetime .333 hitter, 3,152 lifetime hits.

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      • #48
        Obviously we cannot say with 100% certainty that the White Sox would win a series had they played honestly, but I do believe what actually did happen significantly strengthens the chances that they would win the series if played honestly. The White Sox were able to win 3 games despite the fact that they were throwing games and were able to keep several games close in thrown games.

        But really the Sox winning or losing the 1919 series is besides the point of this thread. It doesn't matter whether or not they win that series.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Ubiquitous View Post
          They lost the series 5-3 with Dickie Kerr who nobody expected anything out of winning 2 games. Cicotte wins his third game. That leaves the White Sox needing to win 2 games out of the 5 games they lost with at least 4 of them fixed games. Is it really unreasonable to assume that had the White Sox not thrown all those gamese they would have picked up those two games?
          Let us not forget that the WSox were without Red Faber for the Series as well. Faber may well have strengthened an already good pitching staff. maybe not have to with Lefty Williams in what turned out to be the final game.
          I've long felt Cicotte pitched well in his 3rd start to offset suspicions, knowing that would have left Williams holding the bag to throw the last game.

          Yankees Fan Since 1957

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          • #50
            Not to get this thread off the intended track but Cicotte's third game and the 7th game of the series was supposedly played on the level. The Sox were trying to win that game because by that point they had supposedly called off the fix since they were not getting paid. Which is why Williams was supposedly approached before game 8 and threatened that if he didn't take a dive there would be repercussions.

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            • #51
              You mean Red Faber and his 83 ERA+ during the regular season? The Reds must have been terrified.
              "Here's a crazy thought I've always had: if they cut three fingers off each hand, I'd really be a great hitter because then I could level off better." Paul Waner (lifetime .333 hitter, 3,152 lifetime hits.

              Comment

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