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Mike Schmidt and the DH

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  • Mike Schmidt and the DH

    I was reading the post about the DH and it got me to thinking about Schmitty. I looked up the stats on the 10 players above him on the HR all time list and it made me appreciate his play even more. Of the guys ahead of him only Ruth, and who knows how many he'd have if he was a full time player with the Bosox, Bonds,Mays,and Sosa (only 48 games in his career, 8 when with Texas and ChiSox) and surprisingly McGwire( roughly 40 games total) have less than 1.5 seasons as a DH. Even Henry Aaron hit 22 over a season and a half with the Brewers.Robbie had just over 2 full seasons with the Angels and Tribe,Killer had roughly a season and a half and Reggie roughly 3 full seasons. and Raffy about 3( he also won a GG as a DH, now that is not easy) It makes you appreciate Schmidts totals of 548 playing third, ss, and 1b on the superheated Veterans Stadium carpet while many peers were padding the totals as a DH.Should there be a distinction between stats like Hrs and Ribbies , runs scored etc between Al and NL All timers?

  • #2
    Originally posted by Lindseynelson
    I was reading the post about the DH and it got me to thinking about Schmitty. .Should there be a distinction between stats like Hrs and Ribbies , runs scored etc between Al and NL All timers?
    I completely agree. The historical distortion of numbers is one of the biggest pitfalls of the designated hitter rule- it allows post 1973 AL players to artificially extend their careers, and also allows for the stat padding you speak of above. DH's have the luxury of expending much less energy, time, study, and effort on fielding (if any)- in many cases, almost all goes into hitting.

    Also, (for obvious reasons) designated hitters are also less prone to injury. Injuries shorten, marr, and even end careers entirely.

    I'm of the opinion that the offensive numbers of designated hitters have to be taken into context (and discounted) in proportion to how much they were at that "position".

    The comprehensive metrics like Win Shares take care of this (since the player contributes nothing in the field, he should get nothing), but in the end, 99% of people are only interested in the basic offensive stats.

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    • #3
      Yeah, let's put an asterisk by there name!!

      And what about NL pitchers who don't have to face a DH? Those blaggards are getting away with murder. Better revise all their numbers upwards by 10%.
      Last edited by KCGHOST; 02-01-2006, 12:02 PM.
      Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball

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      • #4
        Originally posted by KCGHOST
        Yeah, let's put an asterisk by there name!!

        And what about NL pitchers who don't have to face a DH? Those blaggards are getting away with murder. Better revise all their numbers upwards by 10%.
        Why don't we just get rid of the ridiculous item known as the DH and be done with it.

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        • #5
          Second that.:radio

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          • #6
            thirdsies.
            "you don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. just get people to stop reading them." -ray bradbury

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            • #7
              Originally posted by west coast orange and black
              thirdsies.
              fourthsies

              http://www.baseball-fever.com/poll.p...ts&pollid=2529

              http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=19156

              http://www.baseball-fever.com/showth...ed+hitter+rule
              Last edited by csh19792001; 02-02-2006, 02:28 PM.

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              • #8
                Such closed minded arrogant self-assuredness that your form of baseball is the right form...

                I'm digusted.

                HOORAY FOR THE DH!!!!!

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                • #9
                  well, this current poll means something, right?
                  "you don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. just get people to stop reading them." -ray bradbury

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by SABR Matt
                    Such closed minded arrogant self-assuredness that your form of baseball is the right form...

                    I'm digusted.
                    Speak for yourself. Such closed minded arrogant self-assuredness that your form of analysis (stats alone) is the only correct one...

                    This is a baseball history forum.

                    There's an entire universe of information and experience far beyond the realm of statistics and "value". Hopefully someday you'll come to understand and appreciate that.
                    Last edited by csh19792001; 02-02-2006, 03:44 PM.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by SABR Matt
                      Such closed minded arrogant self-assuredness that your form of baseball is the right form...

                      I'm digusted.

                      HOORAY FOR THE DH!!!!!
                      It was created to fix a problem that no longer exists, not to mention all the other bogus stuff DH brings to the table.

                      1) Allowing non-ballplayers to step onto the field, or to extend their "should be" over careers
                      2) Unfair batting cage/video work DURING games
                      3) Beanball issues with the pitcher not batting
                      4) Eliminates subtle strategic maneuvers
                      5) Throws a wrench into formulas that saber guys try to come up with

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                      • #12
                        This thread has nothing whatsoever to do with sabermetrics...and if you really knew me at all csh...you'd understand that not everything is about statistics in my world...particularly not this thread.

                        I'm very VERY tired of people acting as though the DH is a pox on the game...I've observed both leagues for a long time...the AL has better pitching, better fielding, and better hitting...for a REASON. Just because something is different, doesn't mean it's evil.

                        Oh and one other thing...this is a baseball history forum...and for closed minded zealots like you csh...I offer this FACT...statistics are a major part of the history of this game. Deal with it.
                        Last edited by SABR Matt; 02-02-2006, 03:53 PM.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Sultan_1895-1948
                          It was created to fix a problem that no longer exists, not to mention all the other bogus stuff DH brings to the table.

                          1) Allowing non-ballplayers to step onto the field, or to extend their "should be" over careers
                          2) Unfair batting cage/video work DURING games
                          3) Beanball issues with the pitcher not batting
                          4) Eliminates subtle strategic maneuvers
                          5) Throws a wrench into formulas that saber guys try to come up with
                          Yes, the DH should go away.
                          Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            The DH itself doesn't really disturb me -- in fact, it makes it possible for aging stars to extend their careers a few more years. That's why most MLB players will end their careers in the American League. We who live near AL cities can see these former great NL players "in the flesh" -- even if their best seasons are now long in the past.

                            What does disturb me is the fact that the AL uses the DH and the NL does not. I would like to see both leagues follow the same rules, whatever they may be. But who is really "out of step" here? The DH is not just an American League rule; high schools, colleges and all minor leagues use the DH.

                            If the DH were to be eliminated at any level I would prefer that it be eliminated first in amatuer baseball (American Legion, high school and college) so that young pitchers can get a few years of hitting experience before someone determines (at age 14?) that they can't hit. It's a shame if a kid doesn't get a turn at bat because someone decided to DH for them all the time.
                            Luke

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Appling
                              The DH itself doesn't really disturb me -- in fact, it makes it possible for aging stars to extend their careers a few more years. That's why most MLB players will end their careers in the American League. We who live near AL cities can see these former great NL players "in the flesh" -- even if their best seasons are now long in the past.

                              What does disturb me is the fact that the AL uses the DH and the NL does not. I would like to see both leagues follow the same rules, whatever they may be. But who is really "out of step" here? The DH is not just an American League rule; high schools, colleges and all minor leagues use the DH.

                              If the DH were to be eliminated at any level I would prefer that it be eliminated first in amatuer baseball (American Legion, high school and college) so that young pitchers can get a few years of hitting experience before someone determines (at age 14?) that they can't hit. It's a shame if a kid doesn't get a turn at bat because someone decided to DH for them all the time.


                              THANK YOU

                              Comment

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