Best Position Players of All Time - #26

[leecemark]

--Alex Rodriguez claimed the 25th spot in our polls. Elected so far;
1) Babe Ruth
2) Ty Cobb
3) Willie Mays
4) Honus Wagner
5) Ted Williams
6) Barry Bonds
7) Tris Speaker
8) Stan Musial
9) Lou Gehrig
10) Hank Aaron
11) Mickey Mantle
12) Rogers Hornsby
13) Eddie Collins
14) Mike Schmidt
15) Oscar Charleston
16) Josh Gibson
17) Joe DiMaggio
18) Frank Robinson
19) Joe Morgan
20) Jimmie Foxx
21) Nap Lajoie
22) Johnny Bench
23) Mel Ott
24) Rickey Henderson
25) Alex Rodriguez
--Please vote for your next 10 best, numbered 1-10. Votes will be counted MVP style in a week or so.

[mac195]

1. Yogi Berra - co-favorite as best MLB catcher, should not fall much farther behind Bench
2. Pop Lloyd - some contemporaries called him the best ever
3. George Brett - with Mathews just a step behind Schmidt
4. Eddie Mathews
5. Ken Griffey Jr. - a Mays/Aaron type in his prime
6. Carl Yastrzemski - AL's best in toughest era for hitters
7. Turkey Stearns - Negro League greatness well documented
8. Cal Ripken Jr. - much more than just the streak
9. Arky Vaughan - short career but arguably the best SS ever in his prime
10. Cap Anson - the greatest player of the 19th century

[leecemark]

My ballot

1) Cap Anson - time to honor the best of the pioneer generation
2) Pop Lloyd - best Negro League IFer
3) Yogi Berra - #2 catcher and AL player of the 50s
4) Eddie Mathews - #2 3B ever
5) George Brett - disagrees with above statement
6) Turkey Stearnes - underrated NeL great
7) Reggie Jackson - best AL player of the 70s
8) Charlie Gehringer - great all around player
9) Carl Yastrzemski - best AL player of the 60s
10) Cal Ripken - top offensive and defensive SS for two decades
--my 2nd team
C) Piazza
1B) Murray
2B) Robinson
3B) Boggs
SS) Vaughan
LF) Delahanty
CF) Griffey
RF) Crawford
DH) Thomas
Utl) Rose

[Bothrops Atrox]

1. Cap Anson
2. Dan Brouthers
3. Joe Jackson
4. Ed Delehanty
5. Yogi Berra
6. Pop Lloyd
7. Ken Griffey Jr.
8. George Brett
9. Al Simmons
10. Charlie Gehringer

11. Carl Yastremzki
12. Hank Greenberg
13. Cal Ripken Jr.
14. Tony Gwynn
15. Eddie Mathews
16. George Sisler
17. Sam Crawford
18. Pete Rose
19. Harry Heilmann
20. Martin Dihigo

[leecemark]

Form Chart

--Taking a page from my old pal Bill Burgess, here is my take on the best remaining players;
C) Berra.....Piazza, Cochrane
1B) Anson, Murray, McCovey (or Greenberg or Mize)
2B) Gehringer, Robinson.......Frisch
3B) Mathews, Brett, Boggs
SS) Lloyd, Ripken, Vaughan
LF) Yaz, Delahanty......Simmons
CF) Stearnes, Griffey, Snider (or Hamilton?)
RF) R. Jackson, Crawford, Gwynn (or Kaline?)
DH) Thomas, Brouthers, Stargell (or Suttles?)
Utl) Rose, Killebrew, Carew

[Cyclone792]

1) Eddie Mathews
2) Pete Rose
3) Arky Vaughan
4) Pop Lloyd
5) Joe Jackson
6) George Brett
7) Yogi Berra
8) Carl Yastrzemski
9) Turkey Stearnes
10) Christobal Torriente

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Wow A-Rod was #25! I haven't been participating in these polls because I simply do not have the time to do the needed research and I just don't want to scrap my picks wily-nilly, especially since a lot of my BBF buddies are putting in a lot of effort. I have been keeping a close eye on the voting though. A-Rod at #25 is a little surprising but it really shouldn't be I guess.

[Blackout]

1-Pop Lloyd
2-Frank Thomas
3-Yogi Berra
4-Joe Jackson
5-Ed Delahanty
6-Wade Boggs
7-Cap Anson
8-Tony Gwynn
9-George Brett
10-Jeff Bagwell

[Blackout]

Wow A-Rod was #25! I haven't been participating in these polls because I simply do not have the time to do the needed research and I just don't want to scrap my picks wily-nil, especially since a lot of my BBF buddies are putting in a lot of effort. I have been keeping a close eye on the voting though. A-Rod at #25 is a little surprising but it really shouldn't be I guess.

yeah, A-rod should've gone ALOT higher than 25

[Wee Willie]

yeah, A-rod should've gone ALOT higher than 25

How so? Don't get me wrong - I think he'll end up a lot higher than 25th, but to put him already say, in the top-15 after he's played just 10 seasons as a starter seems a little premature to me. Too many other players have both put in much more time AND had great peaks. 25th is pretty darn impressive for this stage of his career. It's only a couple of spots higher than I have him.

[mac195]

I agree that A-Rod should have been higher. It's possible that he'll go into rapid, early decline, move to first base, retire after 6-8 more mediocre to poor seasons, and wind up with career numbers similar to Ernie Banks (he's already surpassed Bank's peak). It's possible, but it just isn't very likely. And that's what it would take for him to wind up ranked #25 or less. To rank him that low, you have to assume that he is pretty much going to stink from here on out. Chances are he won't, and he'll wind up at least top 15, maybe top 10.

[538280]

1.Pop Lloyd-2nd best SS, 3rd greatest Negro Leaguer
2.Arky Vaughan-very underrated, 3rd best SS, probably best NL player of 1930s
3.Frank Thomas-3rd best hitter ever.
4.Christobal Torriente-one of the most complete players ever, all time great glove and very good bat as well. DiMaggio light.
5.Eddie Mathews-first really great hitting 3B
6.Jeff Bagwell-Great hitter and fielder from 1B. He just wasn't as good a hitter as Thomas
7.Reggie Jackson-my favorite player, I think he's underrated here at BBF. Best AL player of the 1970s.
8.Jackie Robinson-Joe Morgan for half as long.
9.George Brett-By far the best Royal ever, very balanced player. His offense was about 50/50 between primary skills (contact) and secondary skills (power, walks).
10.Turkey Stearnes-Negro League hitting machine. Like Manny Ramirez, but much better fielder

Next up:
11.Pete Rose
12.Yogi Berra
13.Tony Gwynn
14.Tim Raines
15.Ron Santo
16.Willie McCovey
17.Robin Yount
18.Charlie Gehringer
19.Gary Sheffield
20.Mike Piazza

I don't understand the Cap Anson thing. He did stick around forever and was a very good player, but I really don't see what separates him from Eddie Murray, who I haven't seen on any ballots yet. He did have lots of intangible contributions, but he also had lots of negative intangibles. To me, him "saving the game" by stealing players from other teams in the early 1880s is completely negated by the fact he was at least partly responsible for the color barrier in MLB. I have a hard time giving him any intangible credit.

[Chisox]

1) Babe Ruth
2) Ty Cobb
3) Willie Mays
4) Honus Wagner
5) Ted Williams
6) Barry Bonds
7) Tris Speaker
8) Stan Musial
9) Lou Gehrig
10) Hank Aaron
11) Mickey Mantle
12) Rogers Hornsby
13) Eddie Collins
14) Mike Schmidt
15) Oscar Charleston
16) Josh Gibson
17) Joe DiMaggio
18) Frank Robinson
19) Joe Morgan
20) Jimmie Foxx
21) Nap Lajoie
22) Johnny Bench
23) Mel Ott
24) Rickey Henderson
25) Alex Rodriguez
----------------------------
01.JEFF BAGWELL
02.KEN GRIFFEY, JR.
03.Eddie Mathews
04.George Brett
05.Yogi Berra
06.Cal Ripken, Jr.
07.Eddie Murray
08.Robin Yount
09.Roberto Alomar
10.Dave Winfield

Eddie Murray, who I haven't seen on any ballots yet.

You obviously missed my last ballot.

[leecemark]

--I have made the Anson-Murray comp previously, but I think that undersells Cap. He is probably better comparable to Hank Aaron. He was only the best player in the league a few times over his career, but he was amoung the best ALOT of times and ended up owning virtually every career hitting mark when he retired.
--Blaming Anson for the color line is I think greatly overstated. He was a racist, but whether he was much more racist than the average man of his time, I'm not sure. He wasn't more racist than Cobb thats certain. He was vocal about not playing with Afro-Americans and he did have some influence in the league, but he wasn't actual in a decision making position.
--His active racisism is not an unreasonable thing to factor in against him. I thonk it is pretty effective counterbalanced by his long and successfull career as a player manager.
--P.S. HWR, please feel free to cast a vote. I don't think most of us are doing alot of new research for this project, just relying on past conconclusions/lists, tempered by new info on players as they emerge as top contenders. Your vote will be far from the least thoughtfull no matter how qucikly it may be thrown together.

[Freakshow]

1.E.Mathews
2.Brett
3.Ripken
4.Anson
5.Berra
6.Lloyd
7.Yastrzemski
8.Gehringer
9.Delahanty
10.Griffey