Would Babe Have Hit 104 Home Runs?

[SHOELESSJOE3]

McGwire wasn't a "so-so" home run hitter. Unlike Sammy Sosa, Big Mac hit for home runs his entire career. His rookie year he hit 49, hit 500 in fewest at-bats, and has the all-time home run to at-bat ratio. This whole time travel thing is a bit unfair. How many would McGwire hit in 1880, if he could time travel and bring his steroids and personal trainer with him? I'm guessing 130.

What I meant was Mark and Sammy were so so as hitters, all around hitters. That Mark was one of the most powerful sluggers in the history of the game, no debate. That in my time he was easily a match for anyone hitting them as far as any hitter, hiitting them as consistantly I agree.
As an all round hitter he is down on the list.

[BoSox Rule]

I wouldn't call McGwire a so-so hitter. He didn't hit for a high average but he had a career OBP of .394.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

I wouldn't call McGwire a so-so hitter. He didn't hit for a high average but he had a career OBP of .394.

I'm not going to discount walks because it is a part of the offensive package but that is where the bulk of Mac's .394 OBA was made up of. As for actually hitting making contact he was number 21 on the list of the highest batting averages from 1986-2001.

If he didn't walk or hit one out, don't expect very much. not putting him down but he was as one dimensional as they come. Home runs and great at that, forget about doubles or even a triple now and then.

[fenrir]

No, but I'd certainly put Mac as the more consistant HR hitter throught his career. Besides when he missed lots of games being on the DL, his only bad HR year was 1991, when he hit 22. His final year in 2001 he hit 29 in half the season, and still managed a HR ratio of 10.3. I cried like aq baby when he retired. I so wanted him to be the one to break Aaron's record. He should be just retiring now, with 900 career home runs. But nooooooooooooo, someone has to get hurt and retire early!

he retired because he took massive amounts of steroids and injured himself. when you cheat for as long as mcgwire did, it's bound to bite you in the a$$.

[csh19792001]

I wouldn't call McGwire a so-so hitter. He didn't hit for a high average but he had a career OBP of .394.

OBP in isolation is not "hitting ability" though. Do you think Eddie Yost was a great hitter because he drew lots of walks? How about Eddie Stanky? Career OBP .410, below average at actual hitting ability.

McGwire's OBP was drawing a ton of walks, largely because conditions have never been nearly this conduscive to homeruns. Add to that McGwire's obvious steroid use, and you get one of the few guys that (appears) to approach Ruth in homerun/slugging prowess.

If they moved the fences in another 50 feet and some guy had a career OBP of .500 as a result of all the "fear walks", would that make him possibly the best hitter ever?

McGwire wasn't a truly great hitter. He was very valuable in the batters box only. Hit a homerun once every 13 times up, walk, or strike out. But really, how valuable were those walks and that lofty OBP? He couldn't run at all, so if he did get on he had to rely on the people after him when he was standing on first base after the pitcher dispatched him. He was atrocious in the field- a liability. His Gold Glove was as much a joke as Palmeiro's was in 99' or Abreu's was a couple of years ago.

McGwire wasn't nearly as valuable to his teams as his OBP or OPS+ would indicate. He was one of the most limited, one dimensional players I've ever seen regularly and after his comportment in light of the scandal- which he and his flagrant cohorts brought upon themselves- I'm glad he got snubbed by the Hall of Fame.

[Iron Jaw]

The ballpark dimensions isn't the only variable. How many homers would Barry Bonds hit if he went back in time and teed off against a bunch of pitchers who couldn't make the majors today? If Ruth was transported to the future, how many homers do you really think he'd hit?

Probably, some of today's pitchers couldn't have made the majors in Babe's time either. No way either of us can prove it one way or another.

Barry would have had to get used to dirty baseballs (umps didn't change out balls every five minutes), getting thrown at on a regular basis (minus a batting helmet), which was really, only enforced by the players themselves (primarily the pitchers throwing at the other team stars), along with legal spitters thrown by many pitchers in the league (the spitter was outlawed the year before except for pitchers who used it as the primary pitch - it was "grandfathered" out of the league eventually).

The thing about Babe in 1921, wasn't that he hit 59 homeruns, but that he was the only player in both leagues who hit over 24. Nobody leads the league in this day and age by 35 over the next player. The previous year, Babe hit 54 and Dick Sisler was second with 19 (the other league leader, Cy Williams, hit 15. Babe outhomered every other team in both leagues except one (the Phillies hit 64 homeruns).

Now with Babe, it was pure homerun domination.

[TRfromBR]

I think you're right all the way around, csh. Despite my feelings that McGwire is likely a pretty good guy, he was an instrumental accomplice in one of Baseball's biggest farces, fiascos and tragedies. I was really disappointed in him at the Congressional Hearings. He should have stepped up to the plate and told the truth about his own steroid use. I think most people would have respected that. Instead, he's become a joke. What a shame.

[White Knight]

McGwire wasn't a truly great hitter. He was very valuable in the batters box only. Hit a homerun once every 13 times up, walk, or strike out.

Not true, he hit a HR every 10.6 at-bats, the highest in the history of the game.

[White Knight]

I think you're right all the way around, csh. Despite my feelings that McGwire is likely a pretty good guy, he was an instrumental accomplice in one of Baseball's biggest farces, fiascos and tragedies. I was really disappointed in him at the Congressional Hearings. He should have stepped up to the plate and told the truth about his own steroid use. I think most people would have respected that. Instead, he's become a joke. What a shame.

Steroids or not, him and Sosa brought baseball unpresidented popularity in 1998. Everyone was rooting for him, unlike Barry who was always hated for being a racist and a jerk in general.

[TRfromBR]

Everyone was rooting for him ...

Not everyone, White Knight.

[Iron Jaw]

Steroids or not, him and Sosa brought baseball unpresidented popularity in 1998. Everyone was rooting for him, unlike Barry who was always hated for being a racist and a jerk in general.

I wasn't rooting for the record to be broken - and I'm a Cardinal fan. But my reasons were different. I always thought that Roger Maris received a raw deal in 1961, with the two-records being posted in the books as a way to demean Roger's efforts. And he was harassed more than Bonds ever dreamed of. Roger didn't just break a record. He broke Mr. Baseball's most cherished record. And I wanted him to hold the official record for longer than 7-years. Roger Maris set the record in 1961, but wasn't given full credit until 1991 - six years after he passed from this world.

Of course, Roger was on the Yankees in those days - and I'm a longtime Yankee hater. But he was traded to the Cardinals in 1967 (and had a great WS against the Red Sox).

I remember when Henry Aaron broke the all-time mark with 715 in 1974. I was thinking, why not another dual record considering the fact that Henry went to bat about 5,000 more times than the Babe. I liked Aaron though - classy player in my eyes. As was Maris. Then, I figured since Aaron didn't get one it would convince Bowie to dispose of the invisible asterisk for Maris. It didn't happen. Bowie let us down. But then, that wasn't uncommon. I was completely anti-Bowie after he allowed the degerated hitter to enter MLB a year earlier.

1n 1998 I thought that McGwire and Sosa had been on 'roids for years. McGwire may well have broken the record before 1998 if he hadn't had so many stints on the DL during his career. I did like McGwire's personality (and even Sosa's). But I wanted Roger to keep the record awhile longer. Now that the steroid info is out, I still consider him as the record holder anyway.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

No, but I'd certainly put Mac as the more consistant HR hitter throught his career. Besides when he missed lots of games being on the DL, his only bad HR year was 1991, when he hit 22. His final year in 2001 he hit 29 in half the season, and still managed a HR ratio of 10.3. I cried like aq baby when he retired. I so wanted him to be the one to break Aaron's record. He should be just retiring now, with 900 career home runs. But nooooooooooooo, someone has to get hurt and retire early!

Yes he may have been more consistent than Sammy but Mac made most of his gains around the middle of the 1990s when all of baseball was hitting home runs like never before, the phony home run derby of the 1990s, any wonder that eyebrows were raised.

Where was the "Mac like" years before 1996.

Some injuries 1986-1995 but also some years with a fairly good number of at bats and he is no where near the production in home runs or AB/HR ratio he was at from 1996-2001.

---------AB----HR--------
1987----557---49 I'll give you that one but MLB hit 4458 home runs that year.
1988----550---32
1989----490---33
1990----523---39
1991----483---22
1992----467---42 thats more like it.
His AB/HR ratio in those years a respectable 13.20
His AB/HR ratio 1996-2001 at 8.26 all of a sudden he's superman, that drop in his ratio off the chart. BTW in 1996 there were 17 hitters with season totals of 40 or more in that one season. In the entire 1980s decade 1980-1989 there were only 13 seasons with 40 or more.

The point I'm making and showing he was not that consistent over his whole career, not at the post 1995 level.

[elmer]

[COLOR="Blue"]
With respect to Ruth's gifts, I do suspect he was better naturally than most if not all players before or since. But, if he wasn't, this adds even more mystery to why he was able to out slug everyone before or since.*

There are roughly a dozen swings shown on the Ken Burns Baseball docu.
careful study reveals many techniques Ruth perfected. His natural ability allowed him this luxury of trial. He never doubted this ability and knew there would be another at bat in a half hour or so.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

1n 1998 I thought that McGwire and Sosa had been on 'roids for years. McGwire may well have broken the record before 1998 if he hadn't had so many stints on the DL during his career. I did like McGwire's personality (and even Sosa's). But I wanted Roger to keep the record awhile longer. Now that the steroid info is out, I still consider him as the record holder anyway.

Nothing will change in the books, Bond's 73, Mac's 70 and his 65 in 1999 and Sammy's multiple 60+ home run seasons but after some of the things we have found out in recent years, Roger's 61 looks better than ever.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

There are roughly a dozen swings shown on the Ken Burns Baseball docu.
careful study reveals many techniques Ruth perfected. His natural ability allowed him this luxury of trial. He never doubted this ability and knew there would be another at bat in a half hour or so.

Two quotes from the big guy.
" Never let the fear of striking out get in your way."
" Every strike out takes me closer to my next home run."

I've also seen that second one worded this way, " Every strike brings me closer to my next home run."

A real optimist every time he stepped up to the plate. I don't think he knew the meaning of the word pressure.

1932 World Series two strikes down and he's still talking giving the Cub bench some taunting of his own, then he hits one a mile.

1928 World Series the " quick pitch" by Cards Sherdel. Programs bottles thrown on the field by the Card's fans. Card players and Ruth exchange insults. Again two strikes down and still talking then he hits his second home run of the game over the right field pavillion. When he takes his place in left field the bottle throwers now stand and cheer the enemy in their own park. They know their baseball in St. Louis.

This guy is on the big stage, the World Series and he's acting like a kid playing a sandlot game, no fear at all, everything is just a fun game.