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Would Babe Have Hit 104 Home Runs?

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  • Originally posted by White Knight View Post
    Not true, he hit a HR every 10.6 at-bats, the highest in the history of the game.
    I used PA, not AB's. Notice I said "13 times up"

    Comment


    • Originally posted by [email protected] View Post
      1. He would need to switch to a lighter stick, and adopt a much more compact stroke, to get around on the much faster pitching.
      2. As his hitting efficiency improved, he would stop being pitched to, like Bonds in his best seasons. And the reduced ABs would work against his raw HR totals.
      As we know from quotes on the other 'Ruth thread' Ruth often swung at bad pitches that were stated to be a foot or more outside. He gave up the base on balls on many occasions in an attempt to create a more productive at bat. He would garner more bases on balls today due to a longer season. If Ruth had taken the more selfish route he would have hit fewer home runs in his own day and probably hit .400 more than once, Which Bonds has not come close to.
      According to Bill Jenkinson Ruth once hit a long home run with a lighter bat but still chose to continue with his heavier one. My guess is he would find a way today to continue using a heavier bat, but would not drop below the 37 oz. club he finished up with, heavier bat = ball goes farther

      Comment


      • toga . . .togA . . .toGA . . .tOGA . . .TOGA . . . TOGA . . .TOGA . . .

        Babe Ruth had a zest for life and an extrodinary, well documented, appitite for anything and everything that he felt would enhance it.

        Take a good look at the arc of Darryl Strawberry's career and you have The Babe in modern times.

        His name would be synonomus with excess, debaunchery and wasted talent. All of you who are so fond of variables leave out the fact, the very, very big fact that
        The Babe was the all time party animal.

        Comment


        • Algebraically Speaking

          Originally posted by SBBL View Post

          Take a good look at the arc of Darryl Strawberry's career and you have The Babe in modern times.

          Take a good look at one of Ruth's towering homers and you have the arc of Strawberry's career, SBBL .. except for Darryl's abbreviated distance.

          Comment


          • Algebraically Speaking

            Originally posted by SBBL View Post

            Take a good look at the arc of Darryl Strawberry's career and you have The Babe in modern times.

            Take a good look at one of Ruth's towering homers and you have the arc of Strawberry's career, SBBL .. except for Darryl's far more abbreviated height and distance.
            Attached Files
            Last edited by TRfromBR; 09-08-2007, 01:15 AM.

            Comment


            • On home run distances.

              I stumbled upon a really interesting site. Apparently they track homerun distances for MLB games. I think it is clearly germane to this conversation and wanted to see what the constituency here thought, apropos to Babe Ruth's potential playing in this era.

              Home Run Distances

              Discussion Forum

              The longest homerun listed in the past 3 seasons was hit by Matt Holliday on 9/19/06. It is listed at 496 feet. Since Coors is kind of a joke in terms of slugging/HR hitting, look at what people did in normal parks resembling sea level in elevation/air density....the longest homerun hit in the past three years was by Alex Rodriguez on 6/15/06 (488 feet). I believe I saw this live- IIRC, the HR hit the trash bin out past monument park.Of note, the average homerun in the past three years has been hit about 395ft (exact averages are listed).

              1. I suppose one question is, how did Jenkinson's methodology differ from that of this site?

              2. More importantly, it states that not a single player in the past three years (who are on average much bigger and stronger than ever before) has hit a ball 500 feet, even with the litany of advantages today's sluggers are conferred with. No to mention steroids...

              Three seasons with 30 teams is what, 7,000 games? If this is true, and indeed the conditions/equipment made it more difficult to hit homeruns for incredible distance, then how is it Ruth was able to hit at least 50 homeruns 500 feet in his career? How about 187 balls hit 450+ feet?
              Last edited by csh19792001; 09-08-2007, 02:52 PM.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by SBBL View Post
                Babe Ruth had a zest for life and an extrodinary, well documented, appitite for anything and everything that he felt would enhance it.

                Take a good look at the arc of Darryl Strawberry's career and you have The Babe in modern times.

                His name would be synonomus with excess, debaunchery and wasted talent. All of you who are so fond of variables leave out the fact, the very, very big fact that
                The Babe was the all time party animal.


                That's bullcrap. There were a lot of players during Ruth's time and before who partied themselves out of the game. Babe Ruth was no Bugs Raymond.
                "Hey Mr. McGraw! Can I pitch to-day?"

                Comment


                • Moo

                  Originally posted by Victory Faust View Post
                  That's bullcrap.
                  With a start like that, no reason to take you seriously. There are better ways to begin your completely incorrect, flawed assumptions. Please try to act more mature, only then can you hope to be taken seriously.

                  The statement is not crap. Niether from a bull or any other creature.
                  Have a nice day.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by csh19792001 View Post
                    I stumbled upon a really interesting site. Apparently they track homerun distances for MLB games. I think it is clearly germane to this conversation and wanted to see what the constituency here thought, apropos to Babe Ruth's potential playing in this era.

                    Home Run Distances

                    Discussion Forum

                    The longest homerun listed in the past 3 seasons was hit by Matt Holliday on 9/19/06. It is listed at 496 feet. Since Coors is kind of a joke in terms of slugging/HR hitting, look at what people did in normal parks resembling sea level in elevation/air density....the longest homerun hit in the past three years was by Alex Rodriguez on 6/15/06 (488 feet). I believe I saw this live- IIRC, the HR hit the trash bin out past monument park.Of note, the average homerun in the past three years has been hit about 395ft (exact averages are listed).

                    1. I suppose one question is, how did Jenkinson's methodology differ from that of this site?

                    2. More importantly, it states that not a single player in the past three years (who are on average much bigger and stronger than ever before) has hit a ball 500 feet, even with the litany of advantages today's sluggers are conferred with. No to mention steroids...

                    Three seasons with 30 teams is what, 7,000 games? If this is true, and indeed the conditions/equipment made it more difficult to hit homeruns for incredible distance, then how is it Ruth was able to hit at least 50 homeruns 500 feet in his career? How about 187 balls hit 450+ feet?

                    By and large, csh, Jenkinson estimates the distances of Ruth's home runs through detailed study of all available press accounts. Because of his vast popularity, throughout the League and nation, the Babe's achievements are extremely well documented. Accordingly, Jenkinson was able to get a good fix on each and every relevant homer Ruth ever hit - in regular and post season, spring season, exhibition games, and, where exceptional, even in BP. In the case of extraordinarily long homers, press accounts often provided significant details of direction, trajectory, and, most importantly, location of landing or impact.

                    Naturally, not all of this data is perfectly precise, but to a large degree it is good enough to estimate home run distances within a few feet.

                    As far as Ruth hitting so many moonshots over 450-feet - including dozens over 500, and a few over 550 -it's certainly hard to explain. But the fact is that he did. The evidence is incontrovertible. Essentially, he was close to superhuman. A few ballplayers - like Foxx, Mantle, and Allen - could hit somewhat close to his distances, but none quite as far as Ruth, and none with such frequency. He had the most unique and powerful physical and psychological makeup of any batter to date. Even the great Baseball physicist, Robert Adair, has admitted that distance restrictions applicable to other batters do not apply to Ruth. He was one-of-a-kind.
                    Attached Files
                    Last edited by TRfromBR; 09-08-2007, 06:22 PM.

                    Comment


                    • 36" bat

                      http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/news/...=.jsp&c_id=cin

                      CINCINNATI -- The Cincinnati Reds Hall of Fame and Museum announces "Babe Ruth in Cincinnati," a special temporary display in the Home of Professional Baseball Gallery, May 14-Oct. 1, 2005. This exhibit will feature a rare Babe Ruth ball and bat, both with Cincinnati connections.
                      The bat, used by Ruth in 1921 to hit his 52nd home run of the season, was presented personally by the Bambino to Harry Borgman, who was voted the city's best amateur player, in January 1922. Babe Ruth was touring the country in the offseason, appearing on stage at theaters in a program highlighting his remarkable career, personality and legacy. He was appearing at the Keith Theater in downtown Cincinnati and agreed to present the 36-inch-long club to the young Cincinnati slugger. At the presentation, Ruth autographed the bat, and young Harry carried home a prize that left him the envy of every boy in Cincinnati. It has remained in the Borgman family ever since.

                      There are only a handful of Ruth bats that have been authenticated as bats used by the Babe to hit a home run. The bat is schedule to be auctioned off later this fall by Lelands in New York.

                      The Ruth ball dates to 1935, and was hit into the Sun Deck at old Crosley Field by Ruth during batting practice in the final days of his career. Al Kramer from Ludlow, Ky., caught the ball in the bleachers during Ruth's final season when the Babe was playing in Cincinnati as a member of the Boston Braves. After the game Al took the ball to Ruth, and the Babe gladly signed it. The trophy has been in the Kramer family ever since.

                      "I'm sure the baseball fans in Cincinnati will appreciate the chance to see these relics from the greatest player of all time," said Greg Rhodes, executive director of the Cincinnati Reds Hall of Fame and Museum. "To have a Ruth ball and bat, both with Cincinnati connections, is an amazing story. We are thrilled to have them on display; it's one more great reason to visit the Reds Hall of Fame."

                      This will be the first public display of both the ball and the bat.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Victory Faust
                        That is such a bogus argument, and it rankles me whenever I hear it.

                        Tell me: How many great black pitchers are there in the American League that would have materially affected Babe Ruth's records?

                        Contrast that with how many pitchers of all races are in the majors now because of expansion, and it's no comparison.

                        If we're going to attach a mental asterisk to Babe Ruth's accomplishments because blacks didn't play baseball during his career, then we have to do the same to Kareem Abdul-Jabbar's accomplishments because he didn't play against European players.

                        It's a bogus argument. Politically correct, perhaps -- but bogus.
                        I know you made this argument 2 months ago and I am sorry I came late to the discussion but I think your argument is bogus.

                        There were very strong black leagues during Ruth's time, and there was pitching he never faced. When the Negro League All-Stars played the Major League All-Stars the Negro league all-stars were as good or better. On the other hand for years the US won medals in basketball in the olympics using their college players against other countries professionals....then when the Dream Team came along they mopped the floor with every other country. It wasn't until at least 10 years later that the international teams made it to the level of the US.

                        with the small sizes of pitching staffs of the time, adding 1 good black pitcher could have made a huge difference. Today there is expansion and more teams and larger pitching staffs so the difference would not be as noticable. At the same time, however, it would be different for teams like Cleveland without C.C. Sabatiha or Fausto Carmona on their teams this season.
                        Last edited by sturg1dj; 09-20-2007, 04:55 PM.
                        "Batting stats and pitching stats do not indicate the quality of play, merely which part of that struggle is dominant at the moment."

                        -Bill James

                        Comment


                        • 104 is like a 104 MPH fastball consistently (give or take 2 MPH), I just doubt it.

                          So he's getting 416 TB just from homers? He had 417 in 1927.

                          That's an .808 slugging (in 500 generous AB, 200 BB) with no singles, doubles, or triples added and you know he's hitting .320. So 4/5 of a base with titanic run-scoring force. Wouldn't it be better to just walk him for one "soft" base every time after he broke 90 or so?
                          (fantasy football)
                          JM: Only did that for a couple of years and then we had a conspiracy so it kind of turned me sour. Our league's commissioner, Lew Ford(notes) at the time, was doing some shady things that ... I'd rather not talk about [laughs].
                          DB: Isn't he in Japan right now?
                          JM: I don't know where Lou is right now. He's probably fleeing the authorities [laughs].

                          Comment


                          • It is a rather and simple question to answer. The prolem is that most people when they wish to counter it ask the wrong question. The question isn't how many great black pitchers played in Ruth's day. No the real question is how many bad white pitchers played in the AL during Ruth's day.

                            Here is simple math to prove the point.
                            First let us say that we can rate all the pitchers on a skill level from 0-100. Let us then say that the average white AL pitcher in Ruth's day was a 75 and let us also say that there were 60 pitcher slots in the AL. Then let us also say that the 10 worst pitchers in the AL at any given year were on average a 60 skill. Now then let us say that the 10 best black pitchers are between 80 and 75 on the same skill level. Now replace the 10 worst white pitchers with the 10 best black pitchers and what is the average skill level of the AL now? With all white it was a 75 rated skill level. With the 10 best black pitchers it is now a 78. And that is being conservative and only saying that the best black pitchers (the best of the best) were only slightly above the average white pitcher. If you move it up to the best of the best are between 85 and 80 then the average AL pitcher becomes a 79 skill rated.

                            So does anyone really want to argue that no black pitcher was better then the worst white pitcher? So the real question is how many black pitchers were better then the worst white pitchers? How white pitchers would lose their jobs to black pitchers?

                            The second part of integration and Babe Ruth that is generally ignored when trying to dispute integration is the other hitters. A big chunk of the reason Babe Ruth is BABE RUTH! is because of the extreme difference between Ruth and everybody else in the league. Having a fully integrated league would shrink that difference.


                            Now of course I have to post that Babe Ruth is a great player, probably the greatest player of all time. Because if I don't somebody will try and argue that what I just said was somehow slander towards Babe.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Ubiquitous View Post
                              The second part of integration and Babe Ruth that is generally ignored when trying to dispute integration is the other hitters. A big chunk of the reason Babe Ruth is BABE RUTH! is because of the extreme difference between Ruth and everybody else in the league. Having a fully integrated league would shrink that difference.


                              Now of course I have to post that Babe Ruth is a great player, probably the greatest player of all time. Because if I don't somebody will try and argue that what I just said was somehow slander towards Babe.
                              Yes it would shrink the difference in his time but what about Ruth's numbers compared to those from later time periods, he still looks good. Don't compare his numbers to those in his time, compare him to any era.

                              Who gets the spot here. The guy has nothing in the way of offensive numbers after 6 seasons in MLB. His career one quarter over and he has 49 career home runs and some how he winds up near the top in a bunch of cumulative career numbers.


                              By your close it appears that your not expressing your true feelings because you think those with a different opinion will get on you. Doesn't sound like your style, you can tell us what you really think.
                              Last edited by SHOELESSJOE3; 09-20-2007, 06:43 PM.

                              Comment


                              • My true feelings are exactly what I said. My true feelings are that unless you genuflect at the altar of Babe Ruth you will get blasted for not loving the deity. Babe Ruth was a great player, perhaps the greatest player of all time. But unless you say that at all times and don't talk about the possible smudges at the elbow and behind the ears you will be accused of heresy. For whatever reason players of old need to come off as even more pure then Lancelot.

                                Anyway as to the first paragraph. The problem is of course integration. Every other power period possible has integration. So every other possible power player (outside of Ruth's era that is) had to deal with integration and the problems of separation and quality of opposition.

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