Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Tony Perez vs. Gil Hodges?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #76
    Pitchers are a breed apart, to be sure. A more interesting cautionary tale might be Bob Johnson, the A's outfielder. He was a darned good player, yet he got a late start in the majors. I've seen indications the reason was it took him that long to convince major league teams he could hit a curve. In one way, it's hard to believe it took a guy that long to learn to hit a curve and then he turned in that kind of career. In another, if this case isn't true, I'm sure there's one somewhere more or less like it because of the highly individual nature of how players develop.

    Jim Albright
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

    Comment


    • #77
      Tony Perez vs. Gil Hodges?

      Originally posted by jalbright
      Pitchers are a breed apart, to be sure. A more interesting cautionary tale might be Bob Johnson, the A's outfielder. He was a darned good player, yet he got a late start in the majors. I've seen indications the reason was it took him that long to convince major league teams he could hit a curve. In one way, it's hard to believe it took a guy that long to learn to hit a curve and then he turned in that kind of career. In another, if this case isn't true, I'm sure there's one somewhere more or less like it because of the highly individual nature of how players develop.

      Jim Albright
      You are certainly right about pitchers, they are different. You know years ago from 1920-1960 some players stayed in the minors because they made more money. Chuck Connors and Steve Bilko were big names in the Pacific Coast League, the Pacific Coast League back then had alot of star players, the league was more then triple A. Where was Bob Johnson playing before he came up to the A's, he could have been making twice as much in the PCL and because of money reasons was satisfied there. Then later knowing he was major league quality wanted the prestige of playing in the majors.
      Last edited by kramer_47; 02-19-2006, 09:48 AM.
      Lets support Gil Hodges for The Hall of Fame, a true Hall of Famer.

      Comment


      • #78
        Johnson was in the PCL, but the source I saw indicated Johnson did indeed want to go to the majors throughout, but he couldn't impress them enough prior to actually signing with the A's. Regardless, the key point is that development isn't a straight-line, clearly predictable process, but that it has a large individual component, subject to all those variables which make each of us unique.

        Jim Albright
        Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
        Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
        A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

        Comment


        • #79
          Tony Perez vs. Gil Hodges?

          Originally posted by jalbright
          Johnson was in the PCL, but the source I saw indicated Johnson did indeed want to go to the majors throughout, but he couldn't impress them enough prior to actually signing with the A's. Regardless, the key point is that development isn't a straight-line, clearly predictable process, but that it has a large individual component, subject to all those variables which make each of us unique.

          Jim Albright
          You are right Jim, there isn't 2 people the same unless they are twins but even twins have differences. I can see watching my 2 grandsons born 3 weeks apart a year ago, even though the same age they are quite different in there development so far. The PCL is an interesting topic too, how some players asked to be shipped back there to make more money.
          Lets support Gil Hodges for The Hall of Fame, a true Hall of Famer.

          Comment


          • #80
            Don't get me started on identical twins. My wife is one. Suffice it to say, I don't think either my sister in law or I would consider each other suitable mates. I'll leave it at that.

            The PCL is an interesting topic, and it is the one league outside of Negro League ball in the US in this century which might have had a HOF caliber player for most or all of his career. The American Association might qualify in the 19th century. With my other interests/commitments, I haven't been able to do it, but I'd be interested in seeing work similar to my Japanese writings on the PCL.

            Jim Albright
            Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
            Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
            A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by kramer_47
              You are right Jim, there isn't 2 people the same unless they are twins but even twins have differences. I can see watching my 2 grandsons born 3 weeks apart a year ago, even though the same age they are quite different in there development so far. The PCL is an interesting topic too, how some players asked to be shipped back there to make more money.
              one just has to look at Jose and Ozzie Canseco...twins, yet!
              Johnny
              Delusion, Life's Coping Mechanism

              Comment


              • #82
                Tony Perez vs. Gil Hodges?

                Originally posted by johnny
                one just has to look at Jose and Ozzie Canseco...twins, yet!
                Johnny that is a very good example, they are identical twins, one was a superstar the other couldn't even stay in the majors. So when we try to figure out humans it is very difficult because there aren't 2 the same.
                Lets support Gil Hodges for The Hall of Fame, a true Hall of Famer.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by kramer_47
                  Johnny that is a very good example, they are identical twins, one was a superstar the other couldn't even stay in the majors. So when we try to figure out humans it is very difficult because there aren't 2 the same.
                  I watched them both with the Modesto B's the Athletics minor league team. There was a time when both Ozzie and Jose looked pretty much the same. Of course, then Jose took off!
                  Johnny
                  Delusion, Life's Coping Mechanism

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by johnny
                    I watched them both with the Modesto B's the Athletics minor league team. There was a time when both Ozzie and Jose looked pretty much the same. Of course, then Jose took off!
                    Wasn't Ozzie a pitcher in the Yankees farm system before he became an outfielder with the A's.
                    Lets support Gil Hodges for The Hall of Fame, a true Hall of Famer.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Coming into this thread, I assumed Perez was the better player, because he's the Hall of Famer. But I ended up voting for Hodges.

                      Though Perez's OPS+ was marginally higher (by two points), Hodges was a better slugger, he fielded slightly better, he walked more and posted a higher OPS. He was an All-Star more often and netted a few Gold Gloves, too (Perez never earned a Gold Glove). He also performed better in the postseason.

                      So, why is Perez in the Hall of Fame and not Hodges? Perez was part of the legendary Big Red Machine, so that helps his reputation. He also had better counting stats, eclipsing 2,700 hits and 500 doubles. Hodges didn't even reach 2,000 hits or 300 doubles.

                      But, if we are going to use an if-then argument, then if Tony Perez is in the Hall of Fame, Gil Hodges should be too.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        --I think you answered your own question. Perez played much longer and yet maintained slightly better rate stats (and much better counting ones). It would be extremely difficult to argue that Hodges had a better career as a hitter. Hodges almost certainly was a better defensive 1B, but Perez played a number of years as a 3B so picks up some ground in positional value.
                        --I see Perez as a very borderline selection who made it only due to his longevity. If Hodges had been able to play as long at the same level he would no doubt be in as well, but he fell well short.

                        Comment

                        Ad Widget

                        Collapse
                        Working...
                        X