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just what did walter johnson mean to the washington nationals? where would they have been without him? is he the most valuable player to his team than perhaps any other athlete? where would griffith have been without him?
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In general pitchers are simply not as valuable as everyday position players But Johnson might be an exception. Of course through most of his career the Senators sucked. But he did have some HoF teammates (Goose Goslin, Sam Rice, and Stan Coveleski).Originally posted by bkmckennaStrikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis -
actually i don't buy that the senators sucked - after griffith came over in 1912 they had the best record of the 1910s other than boston and chicago - the nationals were also very successful in the 1920s - the team really sucked before 1912 (never topping 6th pace) and after the 1933 pennantComment
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The nickname Big Train says it all.Originally posted by bkmckenna
Just imagine if he had A) more run support and B) the mentality of most pitchers back then
Has any other pitcher won two MVP's or Cy Young's so far apart? His was 11 years apart.
Also, does anyone know where to find a breakdown of Johnson's yearly salaries?Comment
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1913 - $10K With A $2K Bonus
1914 - $12K
1915 - $12.5K
1916-20 - $16KComment
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They were up and down after 1912. They had a dip in 1916-17 and 1919-20.Originally posted by bkmckennaStrikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash DavisComment
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Cool, thanksOriginally posted by bkmckennaComment
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yeah - that's what happens in sports - there are actually others out there competing against your every moveOriginally posted by Honus Wagner RulesComment
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Wow, I've already made more this year than The Big Train made in 1920!Originally posted by bkmckenna
Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash DavisComment
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------Originally posted by Sultan_1895-1948
Historical Player Salaries:
All salaries are express in thousands; all figures under a person's name apply to that person until another name appears. The corresponding year appears at the collumn at the left.Code:Wagner 1898 1,5 1899 Lajoie 1900 6,0 Matty 2,1 1901 8,0 1,5 4,2 1902 8,0 3,0 5 McGraw 1903 5,0 5 11 1904 5 11 1905 Cobb 9,0 5 11 1,8-Bobby Lowe 2,7-S.Crawford 1906 1,8 W.Johnson 5 15 6,5-Bobby Wallace 3,0 1907 2,4 2,7 5 15 1908 4,8 3,5 10 15 4,0 1909 4,8 4,5 9 10 18 1910 9,0 7,0 9 10 18 Alexander 1911 9,0 7,0 M.Brown 9 10 18 Chase 1,5 Wheat 1912 9,0 7,0 7,0 Speaker 9 10 18 6 5,0 2,0 3,3 1913 12,0 12 9,0 9 10 30 D.Lewis 5,0 Hooper 1914 15,0 Ruth 12,5 Collins 18 pkg. 12,0 10 30 5 3,5 5 1915 20 3,5 16 15 18 pkg. Hornsby 10 30 Roush 5 7,5 3,5 5 1916 20 3,5 16 15 15 2,0 10 30 5,0 5 7,5 3,5 5 6,0 1917 20 5 16 15 15 3,0 40 Huggins 7,5 12,5 6,8 1918 20 7 16 15 15 4,0 40 12,5 8,0 1919 20 10 16 15 18 4,0 40 10 12,5 9 1920 20 20 16 5,0 40 Heilmann 10 Landis 1921 35 p/m 30 11 40 7,5 13,75 50,0 1922 35 p/m 52 18,5 Gehrig 50 8,8 12.5 13,75 50,0 1923 35 p/m 52 18,5 3,5 50 10,0 R.Youngs 13,75 Frisch Gehringer 50,0 1924 38 p/m 52 16-20 15-20 30? 18,5 3,0 50 19,0 16 15-20 10,0 17,5 3,5r 50,0 1925 50 p/m 52 20 40 p/m 33,3 3,75 50 16 Foxx 10,0 15,0 50,0 1926 50 p/m 52 20 35 33,3 6,5 50 Pennock 2 16,6-Dazzy Vance 50,0 1927 105* 70 20 20 35? 37 8,0 50 23,3 37,5 17,5 2,5 16,6 65,0 1928 35 70 retired 30? 40,6 25 50 23,3 8,0-O'Doul 3 16,6 65,0 1929 70 25-manager 40 25 23,3 8,5 5 65,0 1930 80 25-manager 40 25 held out 22,6-H.Wilson 20 Simmons 25,0 65,0 1931 80 25-manager 40 25 70 15,0 33 25-Terry 16,6 33,33 22,5 50,0 1932 75 40 25 70 16,5 15 16,6 33,33 1933 52 15 23 Klein Cochrane Hubbell 16,6 B.Rickey 33,33 30 1934 36,696 15 23 30 30,0 17,5 27,5 18 39,470 20 1935 DiMaggio 35 24 18 31 17,289 30,0 20 44,919 35 Greenberg 1936 7,5 20 24 18,33 31 45 30 43,907 16,5 25 1937 15 25 18,33 36 22,5 30 42,340 18,5 1938 25 Williams 40 5,0 36 1939 27,5 6,5 40 8,0 36 1940 32,5 12 55 1941 37,5 20 1942 43,75 35 9,0 1943 WWII military 1944 WWII military 1945 WWII military 6,0 Reiser 1946 43,75 50 12,5 1947 43,75 75 100 1948 70 90 30-Kiner 1949 100 100 J.Robinson Stengel 49,470 1950 100 100 65 35 18 50 1951 100 100 20manager 65 1952 100 40 10,36 1953 100 20,36 1954 100 18 1955 100 60 1956 100 61 1957 100 Musial 62 1958 125 100 1959 125 1960 90 1961
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johnson actually received his meager raise to 12,500 after the federal league tried to lure him away in december 1914 which would be for the 1915 season
that was after he had signed with the chicago feds for $17,500 - he did received a $6,000 signing bonus from the feds which i don't think he repaid - rather griffith found they money to pay back the feds
the incident caused problems between griffith and the club president ben minor - grif was the largest stockholder in the club (since 1912) but he had to answer to the club officers and was limited in his moves - griffith eventually gained voting control of 80% of the club in 1920Last edited by Brian McKenna; 03-03-2006, 10:32 AM.Comment
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Walter never did repay the money. He had taken it and gave it to his brother to buy a ranch or something like that. The money was gone.Originally posted by bkmckenna
Clark Griffith got Charles Comiskey to pay the Federals back. Griffith told Commie, "You don't want Walter across town pitching for the Feds, do you?" Comiskey gave the Feds the money. Griff was pretty cagey when he wanted to be. Or should we say deceitfully cunning.
BBComment
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hey, lets do a little time value of money analysis. you may be a little short compared to the Big Train. or maybe not, in which case 'can you loan me $50 until Tuesday?'Originally posted by Honus Wagner RulesWow, I've already made more this year than The Big Train made in 1920!Johnny
Delusion, Life's Coping Mechanism
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Walter Johnson was one of the most respected players to ever play baseball.
He was a symbol of what a great athlete was at a time when baseball was struggling with the addition of the American League and also a main stay for 20+ seasons in the nations capitol.
He was the backbone for many great Washington teams but I am sure the fox would have found someone else to spend his money on if Johnson had not panned out.Comment
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He meant nothing to the Nationals as he played for the Senators!!Originally posted by bkmckenna
I think he meant alot to the game. Arguably the greatest pitcher ever.1968 and 1984, the greatest ever.Comment
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