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Dimaggio's 56 the best sports streak ever?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by SHOELESSJOE3
    A while back I checked some stats on some of the longer consecutive game hitting streaks in the history of the game. All except one if I recall had low strikeouts... I think Paul Molitor had a fairly high number, high that is compared to the rest on that list.

    Makes sense to me, if a hitter strikes out twice in one game, theres two at bats with no chance of getting a hit.

    In 1941 Joe Dimaggio had a total of 13 strikeouts for the entire season and I believe only 5 strikeouts during that 56 game streak.
    I think BB also makes a difference. In that 1941 season, Ted Williams had 147 bases on balls in 143 games (just over one BB per game). Joe had 76 BB in 139 games. Fewer walks = more chances to get a hit.
    Luke

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Appling
      I think BB also makes a difference. In that 1941 season, Ted Williams had 147 bases on balls in 143 games (just over one BB per game). Joe had 76 BB in 139 games. Fewer walks = more chances to get a hit.
      I was never thinking of a comparison of these two or what Ted might have done with less walks.

      That was Ted's choice, known to all. He would rather take a pitch an inch off the plate even with runners on in some game situations, some hitters did not. Certainly not faulting him, one of the greatest hitters in the game. On the other hand not taking anything away from Joe for his style. I'm sure Joe struck fear in many a pitcher and could have drawn more walks in his career.

      In the end I don't quarrell with your point, lots of walks, less opportunities to hit safely. In my prevouis post I was only pointing out that most on the list with long hitting streaks had low strikeout totals, Paul Molitor being one exception.
      Last edited by SHOELESSJOE3; 02-16-2006, 05:16 PM.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by SHOELESSJOE3
        In 1941 Joe Dimaggio had a total of 13 strikeouts for the entire season and I believe only 5 strikeouts during that 56 game streak.
        Isn't it ironic that Joe DiMaggio had so few strikeouts, while older brother Vince (with 134 strikeouts in 1938) held the MLB record for most strikeouts in a season for 18 years (until Vince was edged out by Jim Lemon with 138 strikeouts in 1956)?

        Prior to 1950, only ten hitters ever had 110 or more strikeouts in a season; Vince DiMaggio contributed three of those ten seasons. Yet Joe DiMaggio never reached 40 in a season.
        Last edited by Appling; 02-16-2006, 05:33 PM.
        Luke

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        • #34
          Originally posted by SHOELESSJOE3
          John Holway, sounds like sour grapes. I can't recall the games he made note of off hand. It was quite a while ago when I did some research on those games, if I can recall he may have cited a few, I think his "too many" questionable calls is an exaggeration, in fact it is an exaggeration. "Too many" leads the reader to assume there were a great number.

          There were as there are in most streaks what some would consider questionable, whats new.

          One that I did find. June 17, Dimaggio hit a ground ball that took a bad hop and hit SS Luke Appling in the shoulder. That may be some luck but I don't see that being a favorable call for Joe. Appling never got a glove on the ball, I've seen plays similar to this in the 40 years I've been watching this game and have seen it called a hit almost all the time.

          No glove on the ball, how do you call that an error, it may have been a cheap hit but it's a hit. Either it's a hit or an error and theres no way they can charge the fielder with an error. You can bet that all those on the list of the longest streaks had some luck along the way.
          Another one Holway points out, on the very next day, June 18. Again it's Appling. That it was questionable is Holway's view. The game recaps describe it as a hard ground ball that Appling could only knock down, not even make a throw.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Captain Cold Nose
            West and Chamberlin, shortly after Elgin Baylor retired in 1972.
            They were the 'stars' but that team was weel rounded. Gail Goodrich, Happy Hairston, and Jimmy McMillan. Pat Riley was a guard off the bench.

            If I'm not mistaken Wilt and Happy each pulled down over 1,000 rebounds, the first time that two teammates had done that. If the opposing team missed a shot they weren't getting a second chance.

            BTW, the team that finally snapped the 33 game winning streak wasn't too shabby. Kareem's Milwaukee Bucks.

            Yankees Fan Since 1957

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            • #36
              A long hitting streak requires the same things it takes to hit a successful Sac Fly:
              * Put the ball in play -- Don't strike out!
              * Don't take a walk
              * Be lucky
              Luke

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              • #37
                Originally posted by wamby
                John Holway has an interesting take on DiMaggio's streak in The Last .400 Season. In not so many words he calls the streak a fraud that was assisted by too many questionable calls by official scorers (most notably Dan Daniel). I looked at Mike Seidel's book and the Sporting News to try to corroborate someof this but wasn't able to. Holway has a pro-Boston bias, but his claim was interesting and he isn't vague about which games he thinks have tainted calls. I've never seen it cited in a subsequent book, so I don't know if anyone takes his claim seriously, but it was an interesting perspective
                Funny, so much of what I've read from several Boston authors bashes Yankees and lauds Sox greats. Hmm... I wonder if there's even a tinge of sour grapes at play here. :o

                Ed Linn goes out of his way to bash Dimaggio as a player and person incessantly in his Williams bio, while discounting all of the vitriol Williams had for the press, his weaknesses as a ballplayer, while jumping through statistical hoops to augment Teddy Ballgame at every turn.

                Linn also goes out of his way to discredit any streak, ascribing steaks to nothing more than complete luck. This only serves to further diminish Dimaggio's the accomplishment.

                Journalistic integrity (save guys like Peter Gammons) goes somewhat out the window when we're talking writers who're dyed-in-the-wool Sox fans discoursing on Yankees and Yankeedom. Even some of Shaughnessy's work has that tinge to it. I've lived Yanks-Sox my entire life- all people, all ages, men and women. The rancorous envy is seemingly universal.

                You can take the Yankee hating Sox fan out of Boston....(you finish the adage).

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by SHOELESSJOE3
                  Another one Holway points out, on the very next day, June 18. Again it's Appling. That it was questionable is Holway's view. The game recaps describe it as a hard ground ball that Appling could only knock down, not even make a throw.
                  Nice work Joe. Check out that second link in post #28. There were a couple other close calls. Luck was definately on Joe's side.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Sultan_1895-1948
                    Nice work Joe. Check out that second link in post #28. There were a couple other close calls. Luck was definately on Joe's side.
                    I don't doubt anyone hitting in a long streak needs some luck. Who knows how many astroturf hits Molitor or Rose cashed in on. When Keeler was playing fouls balls were not counted as strikes.

                    Joe may have had some luck but when you don't take many walks and you seldom strike out your going to generate some breaks all those balls put in play. After they stop him , he goes on another 16 or 17 game hiiting streak, theres more than luck at play here.

                    In that one game where there was a supposed close call, bad bounce off of Appling's shoulder later in the game, Taft Wright robbed Joe with a leaping catch. crashing into the barrier.

                    Again, I say to Holway, whats so questionable about a bad bounce that strikes the fielder in the shoulder. The official scorer did no favor to Joe, he had no choice, it's a hit a lucky hit but a hit.

                    .
                    Last edited by SHOELESSJOE3; 02-16-2006, 07:10 PM.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Appling
                      I wonder which achievement would cause more excitement if equalled again next season:
                      • .406 batting average?
                      • 56-game hitting streak?
                      How about a .424 BA since that is the modern record.
                      Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by SHOELESSJOE3
                        I don't doubt anyone hitting in a long streak needs some luck. Who knows how many astroturf hits Molitor or Rose cashed in on. When Keeler was playing fouls balls were not counted as strikes.

                        Joe may have had some luck but when you don't take many walks and you seldom strike out your going to generate some breaks all those balls put in play. After they stop him , he goes on another 16 or 17 game hiiting streak, theres more than luck at play here.

                        In that one game where there was a supposed close call, bad bounce off of Appling's shoulder later in the game, Taft Wright robbed Joe with a leaping catch. crashing into the barrier.

                        Again, I say to Holway, whats so questionable about a bad bounce that strikes the fielder in the shoulder. The official scorer did no favor to Joe, he had no choice, it's a hit a lucky hit but a hit.

                        .
                        We're both on the same page. There had to be some breaks in there, but that's baseball. His approach gave him the best chance for success like you said, by not walking and striking out much. He was able to put a ton of balls in play, and on top of that, he wasn't a fly ball hitter. He was definately a feared hitter, so the streak speaks volumes for just how much plate coverage he must have had, to hit that many balls hard for so long.

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