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Another ride through the space/time continuum

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  • Another ride through the space/time continuum

    Let's hop in the DeLorean again for another trip back in time. Just for fun, let's see if we can alter certain events in order to disrupt the space/time continuum, and forever change the course of baseball history.

    Strap on your seatbelt...we'll punch in September, 1919 on the dashboard panel. Making sure the flux capacitor is fluxing...stepping on the gas...now, close your eyes when we hit 88 miles per hour...

    BOOM!

    Open your eyes. Here we are in post-WWI Cincinnati, Ohio. The World Series pitting the Chicago White Sox against the hometown Reds is going to start in a few days.

    After we hide the DeLorean behind a Bull Durham sign, let's find the nearest diner, ask for some stationery, and scribble a quick note:


    9/29/19

    Dear Buck,

    I'm writing this letter to you in the hopes you will come to your senses and forget about throwing the World's Series.

    I know all about the fix you're planning with both Arnold Rothstein, via his mouthpiece Abe Attell, and with Sport Sullivan, also. I know all the details of the fix, including the $10,000 promised to Eddie Cicotte for throwing the first game. I even know that Eddie plans to hit the Reds' leadoff batter to signal to the gamblers that the fix is on.

    I have proof about every facet of this fix, and if you do not play the Series on the level, I will go to the newspapers with my information.

    I plan to send similar letters to Comiskey and Gleason. So they will be watching you closely for any misplays.

    If you don't heed my warning, the entire fix will soon become public knowledge, and your life will be ruined, along with the lives of your teammates. Show this letter to your teammates, as well as to Attell and Sport Sullivan. Tell them this thing is too hot, and they had better drop it.

    Signed,

    A baseball bug

    Now, let's suppose Buck Weaver and his teammates got spooked by this letter, heeded our advice, and played the Series on the level?

    In what ways would we have altered the space/time continuum?

    One way that comes to mind is: If there was no Black Sox scandal, there would have been no need for a Judge Landis. And, without the bigoted Landis in the Commissioner's seat, there is a good chance baseball would have integrated sooner than it did, and Josh Gibson, Satchel Paige, etc. would have likely had several years to show their stuff in fast company.

    And, of course, we'd still be operating under the National Commission system.

    What other ways wouild we have altered the space/time continuum with our little trip to September, 1919?

    And when else should we visit? What crucial point in baseball history can we tamper with, in order to watch the dominoes of history fall askew? We've got a full tank of gas in the DeLorean, Mr. Fusion is full of garbage...so let's roll!
    Last edited by Victory Faust; 02-15-2006, 09:53 PM.
    "Hey Mr. McGraw! Can I pitch to-day?"

  • #2
    Nice topic and well written. So many possible things to alter, oh boy oh boy

    It's possibe that if the Series were played on the square, that baseball would never have been altered to fit the slugging of Babe.

    It's also possible that the Reds could easily have won the Series if it was on the square. The Reds won seven more games than the Sox, they had three starters who were a combined 60-22. The Reds staff only gave up 20 runs and held the Sox to a .224 BA. The only two guys they couldn't stop were Jackson and Weaver. Collins didn't hit well with .226 and Nemo Leibold pooped the bed at .056.

    Maybe if we travel back, we should give Frazee one of those Sports Almanacs, so he can bet on races and win tons of cash. The chain of events that his Ruth deal set off, was titanic. We could take that all away.

    ps. Or go back and give Kenny Keltner the flu so he can't rob Joe D from getting 57
    Last edited by Sultan_1895-1948; 02-16-2006, 01:10 AM.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Sultan_1895-1948
      It's possibe that if the Series were played on the square, that baseball would never have been altered to fit the slugging of Babe.
      Yeah, that's right! Although the Babe was well into his historic 1920 season by the time the scandal broke.


      Originally posted by Sultan_1895-1948
      It's also possible that the Reds could easily have won the Series if it was on the square. The Reds won seven more games than the Sox, they had three starters who were a combined 60-22. The Reds staff only gave up 20 runs and held the Sox to a .224 BA. The only two guys they couldn't stop were Jackson and Weaver. Collins didn't hit well with .226 and Nemo Leibold pooped the bed at .056.

      I totally agree. The poor Reds have been shafted by history. I love the fact that, in "The Glory of Their Times," Edd Rousch insists that his team would have won the Series, no matter what. The Reds had a crackerjack team, and most people just accept as a given that the Sox would have beaten them.
      "Hey Mr. McGraw! Can I pitch to-day?"

      Comment


      • #4
        The thing about the fix is, whether the players would have had a change of heart or not, the gamblers knew about it, and the line by series time made a crazy jump. The suspicion would still very much be there.
        The Black Sox scandal was the nadir of a very dishonest period, where quite a few probably got away with it simply because they were not as greedy as Hal Chase nor playing in such a public spectacle as the World Series.

        Me, I'd go after the Rothsteins of the world, tell the gamblers I'll blow up that gravy train.
        Dave Bill Tom George Mark Bob Ernie Soupy Dick Alex Sparky
        Joe Gary MCA Emanuel Sonny Dave Earl Stan
        Jonathan Neil Roger Anthony Ray Thomas Art Don
        Gates Philip John Warrior Rik Casey Tony Horace
        Robin Bill Ernie JEDI

        Comment


        • #5
          Maris wouldn't have a * next to his record, thats for sure.

          I don't really know if we would have free agency now, or even if the leagues would've lasted this long with no commisioner. Gambling would still be a major part of the sport, with no reason to clean it up.
          I like cranberry sauce.

          "The Babe was a great ballplayer, sure, but Ty Cobb was even greater. Babe could knock your brains out, but Cobb would drive you crazy." - Tris Speaker

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Twisted Wicker
            Gambling would still be a major part of the sport, with no reason to clean it up.
            I tend to agree, the Roaring Twenties were about to begin, unprecedented wealth floating around, prohibition, the golden age of gangsters, etc., if 1919 didn't happen, something even worse could have happened in the early 20s.

            If Buck gets our letter, calls it off and manages to tell the gamblers in time, then they'd learn a lesson and perhaps keep it quieter the next time.

            Comment


            • #7
              The cleaning up of the sport would have happened regardless of the Black Sox. The explosion in popularity of the sport and the money involved was getting to great to keep businessmen from ignoring a black mark that could wreck their investment. Remember the black sox were not the flashpoint that caused all of this to happen but the end result.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Ubiquitous
                The cleaning up of the sport would have happened regardless of the Black Sox. The explosion in popularity of the sport and the money involved was getting to great to keep businessmen from ignoring a black mark that could wreck their investment. Remember the black sox were not the flashpoint that caused all of this to happen but the end result.
                Agreed, it would have gotten cleaned up, but don't you think that in the absence of the 1919 WS, some scandal at least as big would have had to have taken place in order for a "no tolerance" policy to be adopted?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Barnstormer
                  Agreed, it would have gotten cleaned up, but don't you think that in the absence of the 1919 WS, some scandal at least as big would have had to have taken place in order for a "no tolerance" policy to be adopted?
                  There would not have been a rush to put a Landis figure in place. Eventually like Ubi said, S would have hit the fan and it would have needed to be dealt with anyway. So maybe it's good it happened the way it did, and it got handled sooner rather than later.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I think a Landis like figure would have been put in the place and they probably would have gone to Landis regardless of the black sox. It is a natural reaction to events like this ones that highlight lack of discipline or morals to go and find a real fire-eater disciplinarian to straighten the course. Its practically not it is a movie cliche now. Movies like Lean on Me, and pretty much half the westerns ever made. We tend to look for these guys in these situations and the owners had a favorable history with LAndis and Landis was because of the Trusts, WWI and the Kaiser had some notoriety and credibility with the American people.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      There wouldn't have been the sudden rush without the Black Sox though. What other extreme event would have garnered such extreme action? There were certainly issues, and eventually the water would have boiled over, which is why it's probably good that it happened the way it did. Hard to imagine anything worse than the 1919 scandal, but who knows. Bad things left untreated could have built into something far worse.

                      Landis banned, suspended, or blacklisted more than 20 players. He also got rid of contending teams "rewarding" non-contending teams for beating their opponent.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I think that with all of the problems the National Commision was having, Judge Landis was inevitable. Before the Black Sox scandal Landis was reportedly mulling over an invite to join the National Commission. It should be remembered that Landis was the owners fair-haired boy after the Federal League decsion.

                        Instead of urging Weaver to try to stop the fix, I would have urged him to tell someone about it. He could have saved his career that way.

                        I think that even if the fix were called off, another series fix would hit the news. Maybe pre-1919, maybe post-1919.

                        Also regarding Landis: unless the 1930s commssioner was a reader of The Daily Worker, I don't think baseball would have integrated sooner than it actually did. What does surprise is that certain owners didn't try to buy into Negro League franchises. Especially in Washington and Pittsburgh.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I love your posts Victory

                          but Buck Weaver WAS NOT involved in the Fix

                          He saw and overheard and didn't want to be a stoolie, and hoped his teammates would come to their senses

                          That letter would have been better going to Williams or Felsch, or Risberg

                          Gandil and Cicotte were at the end of the line, they would have thrown it regardless of getting caught I think

                          Also Baseball would NOT have been integrated sooner IMHO, without Landis

                          To that we have to look at boxing...and Jack Johnson, who was such a terrible human being, who just happened to be black, that it made things very difficult for black athletes for decades...even Joe Louis had a hell of a time getting past Johnson's mark on sports that Louis wasn't beloved until he beat that German guy
                          Last edited by Imapotato; 02-16-2006, 02:44 PM.

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                          • #14
                            potato, I guess I picked Buck because I think he would have had the smarts to try to do something about the fix. I know he wasn't directly involved...that's why I said, "show this note to your teammates and the gamblers."
                            "Hey Mr. McGraw! Can I pitch to-day?"

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hey Victory, if there's enough banana peels and beer in our Delorean's gas tank, we should swing by and keep Chapman from entering his fatal game, and also go keep Clemente's plane on the ground.

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