Another ride through the space/time continuum

[Victory Faust]

First off, Victory I love your post topics. But, with all due respect, isn't it true that when we travel back in time to 'adjust' history we fall prey to the law of Unintended Consequences. So while it is tempting to think of the 'good' we can do by saving the 'White Sox' from becoming the 'Black Sox' or keeping that racist Judge Landis in obsecurity as an often overturned Federal Judge are we not taking a heck of a risk? Who knows how history would turn out?
I mean, given the tenor of the times if it wasn't the Black Sox wouldn't it more likely than not be another 'betting' scandal and would Ban Johnson be any better at getting blacks into baseball?

But, if we go back in time we must stop off in Brooklyn that rainy night to make sure Campy buckles up before driving home.

You're right. That's why Doc Brown always warns against tampering with the past.

So...what bad might come out of throwing a monkey wrench into the 1919 Series fix?

Maybe the baseball moguls would have ignored the gambling problem...and, with the Roaring Twenties just ahead, I can envision a situation where gambling would have become even more rampant than it was prior to Landis' crackdown.

Perhaps tinkering with history would cause a cataclysmic shift that allows baseball to fall prey to gamblers to the point where fans lose faith in the game and replace baseball with Mahjong as the National Pasttime.

Great Scott!

[Victory Faust]

You didn't just call Hendrix overrated...

No, of course not. Jimi was the mack. No way is he overrated -- but he is over-lionized!

The Rolling Stones are not overrated, either...but they are not held in the same reverance as Jimi, because the Stones are still here with us (well, other than Bill Wyman).

If Mick Jagger had choked on his own lips in, say, 1971, he would be even a bigger pop cultural icon than he is now.

Same with Jimi. If he hadn't died, and had continued making records, I imagine the same thing would have happened to him that has happened to almost every great artist: at some point, he would have lost the magic. This happened to almost all of 'em, from John Lennon to Paul McCartney, to Brian Wilson, to Stevie Wonder.

The best career move Jimi ever made was dying in his prime. Didn't do much for his love life, though!

[johnny]

baseball just reflects america

which is why -to a certain extent- we were cheated from some of the greatest baseball in the world until we finally achieved intergration.
so Sherman, if you and Professer Peabody get the Wayback Machine going make sure that you set ol' Cap Anson straight the first time he tries to pull that crap. :grouchy

[DTF955]

Agreed, that's why I wondered in another post about other commissioners, too. Frankly, I think we'd be looking at earlier rather than later if we want to prevent something - maybe mix tihngs up so that something really bad happens years earlier.

The more I think, the more I feel early integration of baseball would be best happening in the 880s or perhaps 1870s, even the 1890s is a bit late. It doesn't have to be much right away, just enough so there is more and more by the early 1900s.

It's hard to imagine what could be worse than what happened, given the effect on America's psyche, except, as I say, a player actually getting killed by gamblers.

[Sultan_1895-1948]

wouldn't it more likely than not be another 'betting' scandal and would Ban Johnson be any better at getting blacks into baseball.

But, if go back in time we must I am insisting that we stop off in Brooklyn that rainy night to make sure Campy buckles up before driving home.

Completely agree. It would have been something else, odds are, something worse as more time passed and the evil built up.

Definately take care of the campy thing. We should also push in July 2, 1903 into the dashboard digital date thingy. Gotta save Delahanty.

[johnny]

First Rule of the Time Space Continuim

First off, Victory I love your post topics. But, with all due respect, isn't it true that when we travel back in time to 'adjust' history we fall prey to the law of Unintended Consequences. So while it is tempting to think of the 'good' we can do by saving the 'White Sox' from becoming the 'Black Sox' or keeping that racist Judge Landis in obsecurity as an often overturned Federal Judge are we not taking a heck of a risk? Who knows how history would turn out?
I mean, given the tenor of the times if it wasn't the Black Sox wouldn't it more likely than not be another 'betting' scandal and would Ban Johnson be any better at getting blacks into baseball?

But, if we go back in time we must stop off in Brooklyn that rainy night to make sure Campy buckles up before driving home.

[Sultan_1895-1948]

These guys were gonna break the record "anyway?"

Okay, we'll kidnap Ray Chapman on the way to the fatal game. By doing so, what have we wrought?

Since Chapman doesn't get killed, there probably wouldn't be the new rules compelling umpires to throw out balls whenever they got a smudge. So, perhaps, we would still be playing baseball with those tobacco-stained disfigured ball-shaped lumps of horsehide -- which would dramatically affect hitting.

Also: if Chapman hadn't gotten killed, would Joe Sewell have gotten a chance to play? Or, would he have languished on the bench and faded into obscurity?


.

Chapman was reported to have decided to retire after the 1920 season. Joe Sewell probably wouldn't have been held up too much.

[DTF955]

Wow. If we did that, I imagine Roger Maris' record would be safe and snug. And McGwire probably would have faded out much earlier.

Yes, but don't forget Sosa. I contend that if not for steroids, he would have broken the mark anyway. Remember that he did a couple times (hit over 61), and one of those was the first year of expansion. Also, he played in Wrigley Field.

Any expansion year is going to prop up numbers big time, just look at 1977 (Carew's .388 in an era of otherwise ordinary years, even his 2nd best was only what, .365?) 1969, with 3 A.L. guys hitting 40+ and McCovey's huge year. Especially in the A.L., averages were up quite a bit, and I don't thik that was all the mound, because they started to go down again a few years later, hence the DH.

[Imapotato]

You didn't just call Hendrix overrated...

[Victory Faust]

I'd really like to take the machine back to 1988 or so and get baseball to institute a strict PED / steroid testing policy - maybe put old Doc Brown in charge - and see what the 90s REALLY looked like!

Wow. If we did that, I imagine Roger Maris' record would be safe and snug. And McGwire probably would have faded out much earlier.

And Bonds? He would likely still be a sure-fire Hall of Famer -- but I doubt we'd be mentioning his name in the same sentence as Ruth, Cobb and Williams.

I also wonder if Roger Clemens would have been able to sustain the kind of success he has experienced without a little juice to help him out. I have no proof, but the guy's face has ballooned up considerably in recent years, which is obviously one of the indicators of steroid use.

[Victory Faust]

Hey Victory, if there's enough banana peels and beer in our Delorean's gas tank, we should swing by and keep Chapman from entering his fatal game, and also go keep Clemente's plane on the ground.

Okay, we'll kidnap Ray Chapman on the way to the fatal game. By doing so, what have we wrought?

Since Chapman doesn't get killed, there probably wouldn't be the new rules compelling umpires to throw out balls whenever they got a smudge. So, perhaps, we would still be playing baseball with those tobacco-stained disfigured ball-shaped lumps of horsehide -- which would dramatically affect hitting.

Also: if Chapman hadn't gotten killed, would Joe Sewell have gotten a chance to play? Or, would he have languished on the bench and faded into obscurity?


How about Clemente? By keeping him from getting onto the plane, he certainly would have added to his hit total, and moved up on the all-time list. And, I think there wouldn't be what I call the "Jimi Hendrix" effect -- in other words, Clemente would be remembered as just another great ballplayer, not the lionized, larger-than-life hero he is now. When someone dies in their prime like that, whether it's Jimi or Roberto, there is a tendency to make them more than what they really were.

[Barnstormer]

I'd really like to take the machine back to 1988 or so and get baseball to institute a strict PED / steroid testing policy - maybe put old Doc Brown in charge - and see what the 90s REALLY looked like!

[Captain Cold Nose]

Hey Victory, if there's enough banana peels and beer in our Delorean's gas tank, we should swing by and keep Chapman from entering his fatal game, and also go keep Clemente's plane on the ground.

Just put Clemente on a better plane. His intentions were too noble to skip, which is why he went in the first place.

[Ubiquitous]

Veeck's attempt was made up by the great promoter years later.