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All-time best single seasons in one lineup

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  • #16
    Originally posted by leecemark
    --SB are not part of OPS+. That is just OPS adjusted for league OPS and also park factors. The reason Wagner's OPS+ (and WS and any league context adjusted metric) is so much higher in 1908 is because there were many fewer runs scored in 1908 than 1900. Hits and runs were harder to come by and thus more valuable. OTOH, the NL was probably a much better league in 1900 than it was in 1908, so which season is really more impressive is debatable (I lean toward 1908).
    Thanks for the breakdown. So SB's aren't a part of OPS+, but they are a part of WS right? And how much a part of WS is OPS+, must be quite a bit.

    How many win shares did he have in '00, dying to know over here

    Comment


    • #17
      C: Mike Piazza, 1997 (HM: Bench, 1970)
      1B: Lou Gehrig, 1927 (Lots of HMs)
      2B: Rogers Hornsby, 1924
      SS: Honus Wagner, 1908 (HM to Vern Stephens, 1949)
      3B: George Brett, 1980 (HM Eddie Mathews, 1953)
      LF: Ted Williams, 1941
      CF: Mickey Mantle, 1957 (HM: Cobb, 1911)
      RF: Babe Ruth, 1920

      P: Pedro Martinez, late 90s
      Walter Johnson, 1913

      Comment


      • #18
        C- Mike Piazza 1997
        1B-Lou Gehrig 1927
        2B Rogers Hornsby 1924
        SS-Honus Wagner 1908
        3B-George Brett 1980
        LF-Barry Bonds 2001
        CF-Mickey Mantle 1957
        RF-Babe Ruth 1923
        DH-Ted Williams 1941

        RHSP-Walter Johnson 1913
        LHSP-Lefty Grove 1930

        RP/CL-Mark Eichhorn 1986
        Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by KCGHOST
          C- Mike Piazza 1997
          1B-Lou Gehrig 1927
          2B Rogers Hornsby 1924
          SS-Honus Wagner 1908
          3B-George Brett 1980
          LF-Barry Bonds 2001
          CF-Mickey Mantle 1957
          RF-Babe Ruth 1923
          DH-Ted Williams 1941

          RHSP-Walter Johnson 1913
          LHSP-Lefty Grove 1930

          RP/CL-Mark Eichhorn 1986
          Eichhorn went to my high school! He graduated eight years before I did.
          Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules
            Eichhorn went to my high school! He graduated eight years before I did.

            I think guys are overlooking his 1986 campaign because he is not a big name. He hurled 157 innings which just destroys the other guys and their 80 IP campaigns.
            Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules
              My list:

              SP-Greg Maddux 1999
              Most go for '94 or 95
              Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
              Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

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              • #22
                Originally posted by KCGHOST
                C- Mike Piazza 1997
                1B-Lou Gehrig 1927
                2B Rogers Hornsby 1924
                SS-Honus Wagner 1908
                3B-George Brett 1980
                LF-Barry Bonds 2001
                CF-Mickey Mantle 1957
                RF-Babe Ruth 1923
                DH-Ted Williams 1941

                RHSP-Walter Johnson 1913
                LHSP-Lefty Grove 1930

                RP/CL-Mark Eichhorn 1986
                I think you almost hit the nail on the head here. This is close to what my lineup would look like, with the exception of Eichhorn (though I admit I overlooked that season). I'd probably think about putting Cobb's 1911 season in there in place of Mantle. That would be a great leadoff. Actually, the statistically best leadoff season has to be Billy Hamilton's 1894, but no one's dug into the 19th century and mentioned those eye-popping stats, probably because the rules and style of play somewhat inflated those stats. Still, they're fun to look at.

                Hornsby's '24 is arguably better than his '22. Brett's '80 is without a doubt the greatest season for a 3B. I prefer Wagner's '00 over '08. With Ruth, take your pick. It's gotta be either '20, '21, '23 or '27. Personally, I'd take '20, cuz that's his best OPS+ year by a good margin, and he had his best HR/AB and SLG year. Bonds' 73 HRs HAS to be on there, just cuz of the sheer magnitude of that number (let's forget it may be steroid-induced and just enjoy that number, for the sake of having it in an all-time dream lineup). He's also an OBP machine. Imagine Williams '41, Ruth '20 and Bonds '01 at the 3-4-5 spots (in whatever order) with those numbers. YOW!

                It's hard to argue with Johnson and Grove, though I'd probably have to have Pedro's 2000 season on there. As a closer, I'd go with Eck's 1990 (Gagne's '03 is close), and for a lefty, I'd choose Billy Wagner, as his '99 was easily the best relief season ever by a lefty.
                Red, it took me 16 years to get here. Play me, and you'll get the best I got.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Here's what my lineup looks like:

                  1) Cobb 1911 (CF)
                  2) Hornsby 1924 (2B)
                  3) Williams 1941 (DH)
                  4) Ruth 1920 (RF)
                  5) Bonds 2001 (LF)
                  6) Gehrig 1927 (1B)
                  7) Brett 1980 (3B)
                  8) Piazza 1997 (C)
                  9) Wagner 1908 (SS)

                  RHSP: Uh, close between Walter and Pedro. But I'll go with Walter's 1913. That 36-7 record does it for me.
                  LHSP: Grove 1931
                  RHRP : Eckersley 1990
                  LHRP: Wagner 1999
                  Last edited by torez77; 02-18-2006, 04:11 PM.
                  Red, it took me 16 years to get here. Play me, and you'll get the best I got.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Sultan_1895-1948
                    Thanks for the breakdown. So SB's aren't a part of OPS+, but they are a part of WS right? And how much a part of WS is OPS+, must be quite a bit.

                    How many win shares did he have in '00, dying to know over here
                    Why would SBs be a part of OPS+? All OPS+ is is the players' OPS compared to the league average OPS.

                    Of course SBs are a part of Win Shares, WS is an evaluation of a player's total contribution to his team. How could they leave out stolen bases?

                    And OPS+ has nothing to do with Win Shares, obviously. Offensive Win Shares are basically based on a player's runs created per out placed in context for league and park.

                    And Wagner had 34 Win Shares in 1900, which is his 11th best season.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by 538280
                      Why would SBs be a part of OPS+? All OPS+ is is the players' OPS compared to the league average OPS.

                      Of course SBs are a part of Win Shares, WS is an evaluation of a player's total contribution to his team. How could they leave out stolen bases?

                      And OPS+ has nothing to do with Win Shares, obviously. Offensive Win Shares are basically based on a player's runs created per out placed in context for league and park.

                      And Wagner had 34 Win Shares in 1900, which is his 11th best season.
                      You pretty much answered everything, thanks Chris. The fact that '00 is only his 11th best WS season makes me serioulsy question that validity of that stat. NO WAY '00 should be that far behind '08, just doesn't make sense. He was better at pretty much everything except SB and OPS+.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        --Brett's 1980 season wasn't even the best 1980 season by a 3B (Schmidt) or his own best season (1985). His rates were great, but he only played in 117 games due to assorted injuries.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Sultan_1895-1948
                          You pretty much answered everything, thanks Chris. The fact that '00 is only his 11th best WS season makes me serioulsy question that validity of that stat. NO WAY '00 should be that far behind '08, just doesn't make sense. He was better at pretty much everything except SB and OPS+.
                          Sultan, the league OPS in 1900 was more than 100 points higher than it was in 1908. The run context between the two seasons wasn't even close. The fact Honus' raw numbers in '00 were only slightly better is actually proof he was better in '08.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by leecemark
                            --Brett's 1980 season wasn't even the best 1980 season by a 3B (Schmidt) or his own best season (1985). His rates were great, but he only played in 117 games due to assorted injuries.
                            I took the question to mean to make up a team with players at their best. In 1980 Brett was better a bit than Mike Schmidt. You failed to mention that Brett had 118 RBI in those 117 games.
                            Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by 538280
                              Sultan, the league OPS in 1900 was more than 100 points higher than it was in 1908. The run context between the two seasons wasn't even close. The fact Honus' raw numbers in '00 were only slightly better is actually proof he was better in '08.
                              There ya go again, taking everything into account Just playin Chris; I still don't believe you're 13. Come clean !!! :grouchy

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                --I'd have rather had Mike Schmidt on my team in 1980 than George Brett. Actually, Schmidt's 1981 season would have been better than either of their 1980 season's if it hadn't been shortened by the strike.

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