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All-time best single seasons in one lineup

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  • Originally posted by plask_stirlac
    1 - Cobb '11, LF, L
    2 - Hornsby '25, 2B, R
    3 - Ruth '21, RF, L
    4 - Foxx '32, 1B, R
    5 - Williams '41, DH, L
    6 - Piazza '97, C, R (lineup purposes)
    7 - Mantle '56, CF, S
    8 - Killebrew '69, 3B, R
    9 - Vaughan '35, SS, L

    Killebrew or Schmidt. CF is a tough choice, too.
    I guess Bonds' 01 is being discounted now, huh? Not that I blame anybody.

    Vaughan's '35 is a great choice, arguably better than any of Wagner's seasons.

    Killebrew's '69 is formidable. He usually struck out more than he walked, but not that year - 145 BBs, 84 Ks. Looking at that season, wouldn't his 49 HRs qualify as the most ever for a 3Bman, even more than Schmidt's and Beltre's 48? But I guess since he wasn't a full-time 3B that year, it doesn't qualify.
    Red, it took me 16 years to get here. Play me, and you'll get the best I got.

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    • Originally posted by torez77
      Vaughan's '35 is a great choice, arguably better than any of Wagner's seasons.
      Because people can't fathom how incredibly depressed offense was in 1908. If your ERA was 2.4 you were WORSE than average, if you slugged .310 you were ABOVE average
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      • Originally posted by RuthMayBond
        Because people can't fathom how incredibly depressed offense was in 1908. If your ERA was 2.4 you were WORSE than average, if you slugged .310 you were ABOVE average
        I personally wouldn't choose Vaughan '35 over Wagner '08 for the reasons you mentioned, but .385, 19 HRs, .491 OBP, .607 SLG ain't too shabby for a SS. Let's just say you couldn't go wrong with either one.
        Red, it took me 16 years to get here. Play me, and you'll get the best I got.

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        • Best individual batting seasons at each position:

          RF - Babe Ruth, 1921
          CF - Mickey Mantle, 1956
          LF - Barry Bonds, 2001
          SS - Arky Vaughan, 1935 (accounting for the depressed run scoring in Wagner's era doesn't save him)
          3B - George Brett, 1980
          2B - Rogers Hornsby, 1922
          1B - Willie McCovey, 1969
          C - Mike Piazza, 1997
          DH - Edgar Martinez, 1995

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          • Originally posted by SABR Matt
            Best individual batting seasons at each position:

            RF - Babe Ruth, 1921
            CF - Mickey Mantle, 1956
            LF - Barry Bonds, 2001
            SS - Arky Vaughan, 1935 (accounting for the depressed run scoring in Wagner's era doesn't save him)
            3B - George Brett, 1980
            2B - Rogers Hornsby, 1922
            1B - Willie McCovey, 1969
            C - Mike Piazza, 1997
            DH - Edgar Martinez, 1995
            I'm not surprised to see a system that ranks Vaughan's '35 over Wagner's '08. Wagner's relative BA, relative SLG, and OPS+ are better, while Vaughan's relative OBP is better. Vaughan has a big edge in EqA, .372 to .344.

            Matt, I'm curious. Which of Wagner's seasons does your system say is better - 1908 or 1900?

            McCovey's '69 is better than I thought, but it's hard for me to believe it's better than Gehrig's '27. Gehrig wins easily in relative BA, relative SLG and OPS+, but McCovey wins in relative OBP, and surprisingly in EqA, by one point .373 to .372.

            It's nice to see you choose Brett '80 over Schmidt's '81. A couple of people tried to argue in favor of Schmidt's '81, and I just couldn't fathom that.

            I don't pretend to know exactly how your system works, Matt, but if you could explain a little further your choices above, I'd appreciate it.
            Red, it took me 16 years to get here. Play me, and you'll get the best I got.

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            • Originally posted by torez77

              It's nice to see you choose Brett '80 over Schmidt's '81. A couple of people tried to argue in favor of Schmidt's '81, and I just couldn't fathom that.
              I don't think Matt's system gives Schmidt credit for time missed due to the strike. I don't think anyone was arguing Schmidt's was better on raw numbers, just better if you expand them.

              Personally, looking at great 3B seasons the more I look at Dick Allen's 1964 the better it looks to me. It was second in WS among 3B seasons with 41, only behind Al Rosen in 1953. And Allen played in a stronger league than Rosen.

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              • --Any cumlative system, including PCA, is going to rank Brett's 1980 over Schmidt's 1981 because Brett played in 15 more games with similar quality (slightly better rates). What that fails to take into account is that Schmidt played in 99% of his teams games (102 of 103) while Brett played in only 72% of his teams games (117 of 162). Schmidt was of roughly the same quality, but MUCH more dependable. And a much better fielder as a bonus.

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                • Originally posted by torez77
                  I'm not surprised to see a system that ranks Vaughan's '35 over Wagner's '08. Wagner's relative BA, relative SLG, and OPS+ are better, while Vaughan's relative OBP is better. Vaughan has a big edge in EqA, .372 to .344.

                  Matt, I'm curious. Which of Wagner's seasons does your system say is better - 1908 or 1900?

                  McCovey's '69 is better than I thought, but it's hard for me to believe it's better than Gehrig's '27. Gehrig wins easily in relative BA, relative SLG and OPS+, but McCovey wins in relative OBP, and surprisingly in EqA, by one point .373 to .372.

                  It's nice to see you choose Brett '80 over Schmidt's '81. A couple of people tried to argue in favor of Schmidt's '81, and I just couldn't fathom that.

                  I don't pretend to know exactly how your system works, Matt, but if you could explain a little further your choices above, I'd appreciate it.
                  Wagner's best season is 1908 by PCA, but it's pretty close...neither season however comes close to matching Vaughan's '35 by PCA...both missing by about 3 wins.

                  Brett beat Schmidt's '81 by about 2 wins BTW...that one wasn't that close.

                  Now the Gehrig/McCovey thing...I though for SURE that Gehrig's '27 would be better, but I have McCovey beating him by one tenth of a PCA offensive win...that's it...it's very very close. An argument could be made either way.

                  On the third base issue...I totally forgot that the '81 season was strike shortened...LOL That makes a bit of a difference since they were close enough to make it interesting if I prorated it out...I didn't check Dick Allen's years so I should go back and make sure his '64 wasn't better...

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                  • Nope...Allen's '64 isn't even his best year by PCA...'66 beats '64 by about a win (16.1 to 15.1) but they both fall short of Brett's '80 (16.3 OWC).

                    Al Rosen's '53 comes in at 16.2 (oooh...so close)...and Schmidt's '81, if prorated out to a full season would have been (9.8 * 160/102, presuming he missed one more game in there somewhere, or 15.4...close but no cigar)

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                    • Top 25 3B

                      In accordance to my grading system:
                      Code:
                      POS	T/B	Team	Player  Name	Year	G	AB	R	H	2B	3B	HR	RBI	BB	SO	AVG	SB
                      3B	R/R	CLE	Al Rosen	1953	155	599	115	201	27	5	43	145	85	48	.336	8
                      3B	R/R	NYG	Fred Lindstrom	1930	148	609	127	231	39	7	22	106	48	33	.379	15
                      3B	R/R	PIT	Jimmy Williams	1899	152	617	126	219	28	27	9	116	60	40	.355	26
                      3B	R/R	STL	Joe Torre (4)	1971	161	634	97	230	34	8	24	137	63	70	.363	9
                      3B	R/S	ATL	Chipper Jones	1999	157	567	116	181	41	1	45	110	126	94	.319	25
                      3B	R/R	PHA	Denny Lyons	1887	137	570	128	209	43	14	6	102	47	44	.367	73
                      3B	R/L	PHA	Frank Baker	1912	149	577	116	200	40	21	10	130	50	30	.347	40
                      3B	R/L	BOS	Wade Boggs	1988	155	584	128	214	45	6	5	58	125	34	.366	2
                      3B	R/R	PHN	Lave Cross (1)	1894	119	529	123	204	34	9	7	125	29	7	.386	21
                      3B	R/L	BLN	John McGraw	1894	124	512	156	174	18	14	1	92	91	12	.340	78
                      3B	R/R	NYY	Alex Rodriguez	2005	162	605	124	194	29	1	48	130	91	139	.321	21
                      3B	R/L	KC	George Brett	1980	117	449	87	175	33	9	24	118	58	22	.390	15
                      3B	R/L	NYY	Red Rolphe	1939	152	648	139	213	46	10	14	80	81	41	.329	7
                      3B	R/R	DET	George Kell	1950	157	641	114	218	56	6	8	101	66	18	.340	3
                      3B	R/R	STL	Arlie Latham	1887	136	627	163	198	35	10	2	83	45	45	.316	129
                      3B	R/R	MIN	H. Killebrew	1969	162	555	106	153	20	2	49	140	145	84	.276	8
                      3B	R/R	CO	Vinny Castillo	1998	162	645	108	206	28	4	46	144	40	89	.319	5
                      3B	R/R	LAD	Adrian Beltre	2004	156	598	104	200	32	0	48	121	53	87	.334	7
                      3B	R/S	SD	Ken Caminiti	1996	146	546	109	178	37	2	40	130	78	99	.326	11
                      3B	R/L	MLN	Eddie Mathews	1959	148	594	118	182	16	8	46	114	80	71	.306	2
                      3B	R/R	CHN	H. Zimmerman	1912	145	557	95	207	41	14	14	99	38	60	.372	23
                      3B	R/R	SLB	Harlond Clift	1936	152	576	145	174	40	11	20	73	115	68	.302	12
                      3B	R/R	CIN	Tony Perez (1)	1970	158	587	107	186	28	6	40	129	83	134	.317	8
                      3B	R/R	BOS	Billy Werber	1934	152	623	129	200	41	10	11	67	77	37	.321	40
                      3B	R/R	BSN	Jimmy Collins	1897	134	529	103	183	28	13	6	132	41	8	.346	14
                      Last edited by HDH; 03-10-2006, 02:55 PM.
                      In the 1920's, Harry Heilmann led the AL with a .364 average. In addition, he averaged 220 hits, 45 doubles, 12 triples, 16 homers, 110 runs, and 130 RBI.

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