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  • #16
    Originally posted by Imapotato
    As for Baker's biography, it is the opposite of what the Spaulding Guide says

    Plus Collins career defensive records were surpassed by Baker
    Tell us what you are reading in that Spaulding Guide that shows you Baker surpassed Collins' defense . It seems as though it is at odds with what most of us would think.

    Yankees Fan Since 1957

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    • #17
      Originally posted by yanks0714
      Tell us what you are reading in that Spaulding Guide that shows you Baker surpassed Collins' defense . It seems as though it is at odds with what most of us would think.
      It is certainly. From everything I have ever read, Collins was considered to be the far better fielder. Stats have confirmed this.

      Actually, Collins was often named to many people's All Time Teams after Baker's career had alredy ended. Baker was rarely named to anyone's all time team. Baker was obviously a better hitter than Collins and he had a better peak. Clearly those who chose Collins over Baker thought that Jimmy was the far superior fielder.

      And sorry to echo everyone else, but Baker did not surpass Collins in any defensive category that I know of. I have never seen a fielding metric that shows Baker as better, Collins had more PO, and more assists. His fielding percentage was slightly lower, but that has everything to do with the era in which they played (gloves were more advanced when Baker came along). Collins does better in FP compared to league.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by yanks0714
        Tell us what you are reading in that Spaulding Guide that shows you Baker surpassed Collins' defense . It seems as though it is at odds with what most of us would think.

        No I think I read it on Baseball Library while doing my historical sims

        So it could be incorrect

        Can anyone find career defensive records by position?

        I will try

        Sorry, for throwing that out there without a link, I swore I read Baker passed Collins, and Traynor passed Baker

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        • #19
          Here we go it is on baseball Almanac (duh)

          Baker beat Collins for most times leading the league in chances

          http://baseball-almanac.com/rb_3bch.shtml

          and I think his other records that now mostly belong to Brooks Robinson

          Baker had 5631 TC
          2154 PO
          3155 Assists
          259 Dp
          .943 F%

          Collins had

          6646 TC
          2434 PO
          3734 A
          229 Dp
          .928 F%

          BUT

          Collins played RF in 1895 and some SS in between

          So taking away those he had 2366 PO and a little less Assists

          Bkaer played in 1548 games
          Collins played in 1725

          So it could be per game
          Last edited by Imapotato; 02-19-2006, 10:27 PM.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Imapotato
            Here we go it is on baseball Almanac (duh)

            Baker beat Collins for most times leading the league in chances

            http://baseball-almanac.com/rb_3bch.shtml

            and I think his other records that now mostly belong to Brooks Robinson

            Baker had 5631 TC
            2154 PO
            3155 Assists
            259 Dp
            .943 F%

            Collins had

            6646 TC
            2434 PO
            3734 A
            229 Dp
            .928 F%

            BUT

            Collins played RF in 1895 and some SS in between

            So taking away those he had 2366 PO and a little less Assists

            Bkaer played in 1548 games
            Collins played in 1725

            So it could be per game
            I don't believe this is correct.

            According to baseball-reference.com, Baker played 1,548 games at 3B with 2,154 putouts and 3,155 assists. Collins played 1,683 games at 3B (along with 28 games in the OF, 6 at SS, and 2 at 2B) and amassed 2,372 putouts and 3,702 assists as a 3B. For what it's worth, Brooks played 2,870 games at 3B with 2697 putouts and 6,205 assists. So on a per game basis:

            Baker: 1.39 putouts/game 2.04 assists/game
            Collins: 1.41 putouts/game 2.20 assists/game
            Brooks: 0.94 putouts/game 2.16 assists/game

            On a per game basis, both Baker and Robinson may have played after Collins but neither has surpassed him in the field using a putout or assists per game metric.

            In terms of Fielding Win Shares per 1000 innings, Baker had 4.71, Brooks had 4.24 (but over a much longer career) and Collins had 5.93.

            On baseball-prospectus, if you go by career fielding Rate 2, it is Baker at 103, Brooks at 106, and Collins at 110.

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