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Walsh, Brown, Plank, Waddell, Bender, Chesbro, Joss

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  • Walsh, Brown, Plank, Waddell, Bender, Chesbro, Joss

    List them best to worst. Here is my list...

    1. Big Ed Walsh carried his team with that massive seven year peak in a way none of the other guys here.
    2. Three-Finger Brown had too good of a peak to be behind...
    3. Eddie Plank was too good for too long, he pitched 2000 more innings, to be behind...
    4. Addie Joss didn't start as much or come in in relief as much as Brown and they have similar rate stats.
    5. Rube Waddell was too wild to justify being higher when he has equal to lesser numbers than most of the top 4.
    6. Chief Bender's 5 year peak overlaps with Plank (off by one year: '07, Bender to '12, Plank) and Bender bests him in ERA+ by 10. He averaged 7 less starts and 45 less innings. His FIP was better. I don't think Eddie Plank is quite regarded as the World Series performer Bender was either.
    7. Jack Chesbro had that massive 1904 season and just 4 other good seasons.

    Some more thoughts and opinions on mine from another thread: Walsh, Brown, Chesbro, Bender & Waddell are all between 2800-3100 innings pitched and were contemporaries, as all these guys were...
    • Walsh had the best peak. Probably the most underrated, at least the least talked about, peak ever. He was averaging 40 or so games a year (49, 46, 41) and relieving an average of 13. He led the league in saves 5x (10 in 1912). This went on for 7 years from '06-12. Walsh also had the weakest club around him.
    • Three-Finger Brown had a really good peak too and it was longer but he didn't start as many games as Walsh did during it. Brown also led the league in saves 4x including 13 in 1911 and had 32 in a four year period. Check their BB-Ref. pages; I think Brown is obviously not as good as Walsh.
    • Plank didn't pitch at quite as high a level as these guys but he pitched 1500 more innings and was the most reliably effective long term with an ERA+ over 100 in 15 season to Brown's 11 and Bender's 9.
    • Addie Joss threw 800 innings less than Brown with slightly better ERA (0.17), ERA+ (3) & FIP (0.16).
    • Waddell was the best strikeout pitcher. He also walked 130+ more batters than the other two and was erratic and prone to not show up ready to play, in shape to play, or not at all.
    • Chesbro had that massive 1904 season, had good seasons from '01-03 & '05 where his performance was between vying for the best in the league to having a good year and just 3 other years with an ERA+ between 99-110.
    Last edited by bluesky5; 06-13-2018, 12:56 AM.
    "No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”

  • #2
    You underrate Waddell. This guy led in strikeouts six years in a row, led in ERA+ three times, and led in Fip five times and pitcher WAR three times. This was despite having Young as competition every year. He actually had more pitching WAR than Chesbro had in 1904 despite five less starts.


    • #3
      I would rank them as follows, though I have never sat down and made a "list" for pitchers so it is primarily based on doing "rankings" over my time here::



      • #4
        1. Eddie Plank
        2. Ed Walsh
        3. Mordecai Brown
        4. Rube Waddell
        5. Addie Joss
        6. Chief Bender
        7. Jack Chesbro
        "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
        "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
        "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
        "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe


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