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  • Best Hitter of the 1970's?

    This question came up over on a FB baseball page. In your opinion who was the best, greatest, or most dominant hitter of the 1970's? If you could list your top 5 I'll collate the results.
    Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

  • #2
    Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules View Post
    This question came up over on a FB baseball page. In your opinion who was the best, greatest, or most dominant hitter of the 1970's? If you could list your top 5 I'll collate the results.
    Here's the top 25 players from 1970-79 in offensive WAR.

    1 Joe Morgan 1970 - 1979 10 2B 6320 66.9 65.8 4.8 0.0 3.7
    2 Rod Carew 1970 - 1979 10 2B 5916 56.2 56.1 -0.4 0.0 -0.5
    3 Reggie Jackson 1970 - 1979 10 RF 5912 51.2 49.3 -4.3 0.0 -6.1
    4 Johnny Bench 1970 - 1979 10 C 6001 58.8 48.6 17.5 0.0 7.2
    5 Pete Rose 1970 - 1979 10 LF 7399 50.3 46.9 -1.2 0.0 -4.6
    6 Sal Bando 1970 - 1979 10 3B 6338 3.0 48.9 45.7 6.9 0.0 3.7
    7 Bobby Bonds 1970 - 1979 10 RF 6561 49.0 43.9 -1.7 0.0 -6.9
    8 Amos Otis 1970 - 1979 10 CF 6196 40.6 43.5 -2.9 0.0 -0.1
    9 Thurman Munson 1970 - 1979 10 C 5806 45.6 42.6 11.3 0.0 8.3
    10 Cesar Cedeno 1970 - 1979 10 CF 5482 44.2 41.6 0.7 0.0 -1.9
    11 Gene Tenace 1970 - 1979 10 C 4652 39.5 40.3 0.4 0.0 1.2
    12 Willie Stargell 1970 - 1979 10 LF 5083 37.8 40.1 -9.7 0.0 -7.4
    13 Mike Schmidt 1972 - 1979 8 3B 4506 50.1 40.0 12.4 0.0 2.2
    14 Ted Simmons 1970 - 1979 10 C 5868 39.8 40.0 7.5 0.0 7.7
    15 Reggie Smith 1970 - 1979 10 RF 5352 44.7 39.8 0.1 0.0 -4.8
    16 Ken Singleton 1970 - 1979 10 RF 5778 35.8 39.7 -10.3 0.0 -6.4
    17 Bobby Murcer 1970 - 1979 10 CF 6324 29.6 39.0 -13.2 0.0 -3.9
    18 Bobby Grich 1970 - 1979 10 2B 4769 46.8 38.5 13.0 0.0 4.7
    19 Toby Harrah 1971 - 1979 9 SS 5179 31.5 38.4 0.4 0.0 7.2
    20 Graig Nettles 1970 - 1979 10 3B 6442 54.4 37.0 22.0 0.0 4.5
    21 Carl Yastrzemski 1970 - 1979 10 LF 6251 40.5 34.2 -1.8 0.0 -8.0
    22 Roy White 1970 - 1979 10 LF 5891 38.1 34.1 -3.0 0.0 -6.9
    23 Carlton Fisk 1971 - 1979 9 C 3818 35.7 33.3 8.4 0.0 6.0
    24 Al Oliver 1970 - 1979 10 CF 6020 31.9 32.1 -4.3 0.0 -4.1
    25 Tony Perez 1970 - 1979 10 1B 6155 36.1 31.6 -2.8 0.0 -7.2
    .


    19th Century League Champion
    1900s League Champion
    1910s League Champion

    1930s League Division Winner
    1950s League Champion
    1960 Strat-O-Matic League Regular Season Winner
    1960s League Division Winner
    1970s League Champion
    1971 Strat-O-Matic League Runner Up
    1980s League Champion
    All Time Greats League Champion

    Comment


    • #3
      Fairly close.

      1. Joe Morgan
      2. Rod Carew
      3. Reggie Jackson
      4. Willie Stargell
      5. Pete Rose

      The next five:

      6. Bobby Bonds
      7. Johnny Bench
      8. Reggie Smith
      9. Ken Singleton
      10. Mike Schmidt
      Last edited by NJRob65; 07-11-2018, 01:50 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        I would think: Carew, Jackson, Rose then maybe Stargell, Bonds, Ted Simmons, Oliver Morgan may be best offensive player but a lot of that came from baserunning. I will spare the parsing of the word "hitter"

        Comment


        • #5
          I would go with Carew as well (142 OPS+, six batting titles in ten seasons). Rice probably second, even though he only played 5 seasons during the 70s. His average season was 34 114 .311. No one else really hit for both power and average.
          Last edited by willshad; 07-11-2018, 03:53 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Just a heads up Willie Stargell had a 155 OPS+ for the entire decade.
            Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules View Post
              Just a heads up Willie Stargell had a 155 OPS+ for the entire decade.
              Not bad, I tend to think of Stargell as a 1960s guy, but he was quite good throughout the 1970s. I think i would still take Reggie over him, though, even if his best seasons were 1969 and 1980, just missing the cutoff. I'm pretty sure he played more, and led in OPS+ three times.

              Comment


              • #8
                1 Reggie
                2 Stargell
                This week's Giant

                #5 in games played as a Giant with 1721 , Bill Terry

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by SavoyBG View Post

                  Here's the top 25 players from 1970-79 in offensive WAR.
                  1 Joe Morgan 1970 - 1979 10 2B 6320 66.9 65.8 4.8 0.0 3.7
                  2 Rod Carew 1970 - 1979 10 2B 5916 56.2 56.1 -0.4 0.0 -0.5
                  3 Reggie Jackson 1970 - 1979 10 RF 5912 51.2 49.3 -4.3 0.0 -6.1
                  4 Johnny Bench 1970 - 1979 10 C 6001 58.8 48.6 17.5 0.0 7.2
                  5 Pete Rose 1970 - 1979 10 LF 7399 50.3 46.9 -1.2 0.0 -4.6
                  6 Sal Bando 1970 - 1979 10 3B 6338 3.0 48.9 45.7 6.9 0.0 3.7
                  7 Bobby Bonds 1970 - 1979 10 RF 6561 49.0 43.9 -1.7 0.0 -6.9
                  8 Amos Otis 1970 - 1979 10 CF 6196 40.6 43.5 -2.9 0.0 -0.1
                  9 Thurman Munson 1970 - 1979 10 C 5806 45.6 42.6 11.3 0.0 8.3
                  10 Cesar Cedeno 1970 - 1979 10 CF 5482 44.2 41.6 0.7 0.0 -1.9
                  11 Gene Tenace 1970 - 1979 10 C 4652 39.5 40.3 0.4 0.0 1.2
                  12 Willie Stargell 1970 - 1979 10 LF 5083 37.8 40.1 -9.7 0.0 -7.4
                  13 Mike Schmidt 1972 - 1979 8 3B 4506 50.1 40.0 12.4 0.0 2.2
                  14 Ted Simmons 1970 - 1979 10 C 5868 39.8 40.0 7.5 0.0 7.7
                  15 Reggie Smith 1970 - 1979 10 RF 5352 44.7 39.8 0.1 0.0 -4.8
                  16 Ken Singleton 1970 - 1979 10 RF 5778 35.8 39.7 -10.3 0.0 -6.4
                  17 Bobby Murcer 1970 - 1979 10 CF 6324 29.6 39.0 -13.2 0.0 -3.9
                  18 Bobby Grich 1970 - 1979 10 2B 4769 46.8 38.5 13.0 0.0 4.7
                  19 Toby Harrah 1971 - 1979 9 SS 5179 31.5 38.4 0.4 0.0 7.2
                  20 Graig Nettles 1970 - 1979 10 3B 6442 54.4 37.0 22.0 0.0 4.5
                  21 Carl Yastrzemski 1970 - 1979 10 LF 6251 40.5 34.2 -1.8 0.0 -8.0
                  22 Roy White 1970 - 1979 10 LF 5891 38.1 34.1 -3.0 0.0 -6.9
                  23 Carlton Fisk 1971 - 1979 9 C 3818 35.7 33.3 8.4 0.0 6.0
                  24 Al Oliver 1970 - 1979 10 CF 6020 31.9 32.1 -4.3 0.0 -4.1
                  25 Tony Perez 1970 - 1979 10 1B 6155 36.1 31.6 -2.8 0.0 -7.2
                  Wouldn't it make more sense to use batting runs instead of oWAR, since oWAR includes positional runs as well?

                  There isn't a universe in which Sal Bando and Gene Tenace were better hitters than Willie Stargell and Mike Schmidt.
                  Last edited by GiambiJuice; 07-12-2018, 06:35 AM.
                  My top 10 players:

                  1. Babe Ruth
                  2. Barry Bonds
                  3. Ty Cobb
                  4. Ted Williams
                  5. Willie Mays
                  6. Alex Rodriguez
                  7. Hank Aaron
                  8. Honus Wagner
                  9. Lou Gehrig
                  10. Mickey Mantle

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by GiambiJuice View Post

                    Wouldn't it make more sense to use batting runs instead of oWAR, since oWAR includes positional runs as well?

                    Here's the top guys 1970-79 ranked by wRC+
                    .
                    1 Willie Stargell Pirates 1255 5083 296 719 906 6 11.7 % 21.6 % .268 .317 .287 .374 .555 .405 154 -0.9 309.8 -89.0 42.1
                    2 Dick Allen - - - 883 3624 174 508 575 69 13.0 % 19.5 % .229 .313 .284 .377 .513 .395 149 5.2 197.3 -86.5 25.4
                    3 Reggie Jackson - - - 1440 5912 292 833 922 183 11.5 % 21.1 % .233 .307 .275 .363 .508 .386 148 5.5 323.7 -49.8 49.5
                    4 Roberto Clemente Pirates 342 1421 37 215 206 4 6.5 % 12.7 % .176 .365 .336 .378 .512 .392 146 0.4 75.2 19.7 15.2
                    5 Frank Robinson - - - 744 2940 136 401 435 13 13.7 % 14.4 % .215 .271 .268 .375 .483 .382 144 0.8 145.9 -61.5 19.4
                    6 Hank Aaron - - - 872 3413 201 471 573 16 13.2 % 10.1 % .248 .255 .278 .373 .527 .397 144 2.4 173.0 -63.8 24.1
                    7 Fred Lynn Red Sox 718 3035 112 456 460 31 10.7 % 11.7 % .216 .319 .309 .383 .526 .400 143 -2.7 148.1 1.4 26.2
                    8 Dave Parker Pirates 878 3607 122 519 533 88 7.3 % 15.2 % .204 .349 .317 .370 .521 .392 143 0.0 180.4 0.7 31.3
                    9 Joe Morgan - - - 1458 6320 173 1005 720 488 16.9 % 8.2 % .173 .283 .282 .404 .455 .390 143 59.5 371.8 33.3 66.0
                    10 Reggie Smith - - - 1286 5352 225 776 750 80 11.6 % 12.5 % .215 .297 .292 .374 .507 .390 143 0.9 262.1 -2.7 45.6
                    11 Jim Rice Red Sox 802 3456 172 515 583 39 6.8 % 17.4 % .242 .333 .310 .359 .552 .399 142 -0.3 168.7 -53.7 23.9
                    12 Rod Carew - - - 1358 5916 60 837 628 253 9.9 % 8.9 % .111 .370 .343 .408 .454 .386 142 10.2 289.3 -14.2 49.6
                    13 Mike Schmidt Phillies 1084 4506 235 674 666 117 15.3 % 21.3 % .256 .278 .255 .374 .511 .392 141 4.0 217.5 112.4 50.0
                    14 Gene Tenace - - - 1229 4652 171 555 576 31 17.3 % 18.2 % .188 .270 .245 .386 .432 .374 141 -6.3 206.8 -3.0 37.7
                    15 Ken Singleton - - - 1405 5778 171 701 715 21 15.4 % 14.8 % .158 .319 .289 .398 .447 .381 140 -5.6 261.6 -104.2 36.8
                    16 Dick Dietz - - - 400 1431 45 166 209 3 18.8 % 15.9 % .180 .304 .273 .412 .453 .390 140 -0.4 68.2 -19.8 10.5
                    17 Ron Blomberg - - - 457 1486 52 184 224 7 9.4 % 9.0 % .180 .291 .292 .359 .472 .373 140 -0.8 63.7 -35.8 8.2
                    18 George Foster - - - 1046 4063 201 550 690 41 8.7 % 18.2 % .229 .308 .287 .352 .517 .382 138 -0.5 180.4 14.8 34.3
                    19 Frank Howard - - - 508 1958 92 205 276 3 14.2 % 17.2 % .206 .287 .270 .374 .477 .374 137 0.0 83.9 -63.3 8.9
                    20 Willie Mays - - - 429 1651 60 235 191 33 16.8 % 18.7 % .190 .300 .265 .391 .455 .381 137 4.3 74.0 -11.7 12.8
                    21 Cliff Johnson - - - 608 1909 90 234 289 3 13.1 % 16.0 % .225 .261 .254 .362 .479 .376 136 -0.1 80.5 -44.5 10.5
                    22 Boog Powell - - - 925 3455 137 376 510 8 14.5 % 14.0 % .186 .274 .267 .373 .452 .369 135 -0.7 135.1 -55.0 20.2
                    23 Greg Luzinski Phillies 1183 4883 204 574 755 26 10.5 % 20.4 % .208 .325 .285 .365 .493 .381 134 -4.4 188.7 -129.6 23.8
                    24 Bobby Bonds - - - 1479 6561 280 1020 856 379 11.2 % 20.9 % .209 .311 .274 .357 .483 .374 133 20.5 267.9 -27.9 48.3
                    25 Billy Williams - - - 1016 4189 177 549 620 29 11.6 % 9.5 % .202 .282 .289 .372 .491 .383 133 0.3 157.1 -90.5 22.4
                    26 Mike Hargrove - - - 878 3569 57 455 359 12 14.7 % 9.3 % .120 .310 .292 .400 .412 .370 132 -4.8 126.6 -50.5 20.2
                    27 Andre Thornton - - - 759 2950 126 405 414 21 15.1 % 14.1 % .223 .254 .252 .371 .475 .379 132 -2.4 108.0 -45.8 16.7
                    28 Norm Cash Tigers 576 2068 95 249 257 3 11.9 % 15.0 % .206 .269 .263 .359 .469 .370 132 -0.3 72.0 -47.0 9.8
                    29 Willie McCovey - - - 1166 4340 207 461 680 7 15.2 % 15.8 % .221 .262 .256 .371 .478 .372 132 1.1 162.8 -110.4 20.9
                    30 Bob Watson - - - 1393 5625 149 671 822 23 9.2 % 11.2 % .153 .318 .301 .368 .454 .367 131 -3.1 197.9 -125.5 27.8
                    .


                    19th Century League Champion
                    1900s League Champion
                    1910s League Champion

                    1930s League Division Winner
                    1950s League Champion
                    1960 Strat-O-Matic League Regular Season Winner
                    1960s League Division Winner
                    1970s League Champion
                    1971 Strat-O-Matic League Runner Up
                    1980s League Champion
                    All Time Greats League Champion

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thanks Savoy!
                      My top 10 players:

                      1. Babe Ruth
                      2. Barry Bonds
                      3. Ty Cobb
                      4. Ted Williams
                      5. Willie Mays
                      6. Alex Rodriguez
                      7. Hank Aaron
                      8. Honus Wagner
                      9. Lou Gehrig
                      10. Mickey Mantle

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by willshad View Post

                        Not bad, I tend to think of Stargell as a 1960s guy, but he was quite good throughout the 1970s. I think i would still take Reggie over him, though, even if his best seasons were 1969 and 1980, just missing the cutoff. I'm pretty sure he played more, and led in OPS+ three times.
                        Stargell was one of many guys whose career essentially spanned 2 decades. He had more good seasons in the 70s than in the 60s, and his 2 greatest seasons were in the 70s (71 and 73).

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Wow, how a question and its replies may change depending upon when the question is asked!

                          If you had posed this question in the period of 1977-1978, after Carew's 0.388 in 1977 and multiple seasons for him as the top contact hitter in the game, then the replies would have him at the top 90% of the time or more. The remainder of the replies might have been from fans who supported power hitters.

                          Now, in a power era which has lasted long enough for fans to place power as the first factor to rate, the debate might be down to Reggie Jackson v Willie Stargell. I still think of Stargell as more consistent and Jackson as streaky. However, reviewing their careers from the 1970s leaves no doubt that Stargell's peak was from '71-'73 and Jackson had a mix of up and down years without a true peak. That review also serves as a reminder that Reggie was mostly a DH in the 1970s.

                          Schmidt and Rice arrived too late into the decade, Dick Allen did not last long enough as a regular player, and Bench had the years of catching affect him. Tony Perez was in the conversation in the first half but not at all in the second half of the decade. George Brett arrived later still. McCovey and Yaz and Frank Robinson were done.

                          By today's standards, I would have to go with Reggie. Yet, I can't go with today's standards because I still think that this new-found ideal is wrong-headed.

                          So, I stick with Rod Carew. The contact hitter is dead..... long live contact hitters.
                          Catfish Hunter, RIP. Mark Fidrych, RIP. Skip Caray, RIP. Tony Gwynn, #19, RIP

                          A fanatic is someone who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. -- Winston Churchill. (Please take note that I've recently become aware of how this quote applies to a certain US president. This is a coincidence, and the quote was first added to this signature too far back to remember when).

                          Experience is the hardest teacher. She gives the test first and the lesson later. -- Dan Quisenberry.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by abolishthedh View Post
                            s.

                            Now, in a power era which has lasted long enough for fans to place power as the first factor to rate, the debate might be down to Reggie Jackson v Willie Stargell. I still think of Stargell as more consistent and Jackson as streaky. However, reviewing their careers from the 1970s leaves no doubt that Stargell's peak was from '71-'73 and Jackson had a mix of up and down years without a true peak. That review also serves as a reminder that Reggie was mostly a DH in the 1970s.

                            .
                            au contraire

                            Below is number of games that Reggie started at DH in the 1970s. Except for 35 starts in 1978, Reggie didn't DH much in that decade.

                            1973 OAK DH 3
                            1974 OAK DH 19
                            1975 OAK DH 9
                            1976 BAL DH 11
                            1977 NYY DH 18
                            1978 NYY DH 35
                            1979 NYY DH 3
                            total 98
                            ave 14


                            Reggie was a good outfielder in his youth and had a good arm.





                            This week's Giant

                            #5 in games played as a Giant with 1721 , Bill Terry

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              1. Reggie Jackson
                              2. Rod Carew
                              3. Pete Rose
                              4. Willie Stargell
                              5. Joe Morgan (few bad years knocked him down)
                              R.I.P. Scott Sanderson (1956-2019)


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