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  • Bartolo Colon

    Originally posted by Stolensingle View Post
    Ageless wonder Bartolo Colon won his 246th game, the most ever by a Latin player.
    How good has Bartolo Colon been? Where does he fit in with other Latin pitchers: Jose Mendez (HoF), Luis Tiant, El Duque, Livan Hernandez, Adolpho Luque, Fernando Valenzuela, Johan Santana and Dennis Martinez?

    *Pedro & Marichal are obviously a notch above the rest of these guys in my opinion.
    "No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”

  • #2
    Well behind Tiant and Mendez and Santana. Probably a bit behind Luque too . Around the same category as Fernando and Martinez. Certainly higher than Livan.

    Aa vry long career of good pitching, but never GREAT. Okay - 2002 was great. Career looks a lot like Jamie Moyers. No chance at a sniff at the HOF - but still... hooray for him.
    1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

    1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

    1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


    The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
    The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

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    • #3
      As a known PED offender, I wouldn't want him in the Hall, anyway. But I still love the guy after watching him for a few years with the Mets. How can you not? His pitching was intelligent, and all business, but his at-bats were hilarious.
      They call me Mr. Baseball. Not because of my love for the game; because of all the stitches in my head.

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      • #4
        Most wins from age-40 season on:
        Code:
        Player         W   L ERA+  WAR     IP From   To
        Phil Niekro  121 103  103 25.6 1977.0 1979 1987 H
        Jamie Moyer  105  84   98 13.4 1551.1 2003 2012
        Jack Quinn    96  80  122 26.3 1427.2 1924 1933
        Bartolo Colon 75  64   95  9.5 1052.1 2013 2018
        Warren Spahn  75  63  104 12.4 1163.0 1961 1965 H
        Cy Young      75  60  124 23.6 1226.1 1907 1911 H
        Randy Johnson 73  52  116 20.7 1013.0 2004 2009 H
        Nolan Ryan    71  66  116 22.7 1271.2 1987 1993 H
        Charlie Hough 67  88  100 10.1 1346.1 1988 1994
        Roger Clemens 61  33  146 22.2  849.2 2003 2007
        Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

        Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.

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        • #5
          I don't rank Colon that high among pitchers of Latino descent. Livan Hernandez doesn't merit mention, he has a career pitching WAA of -2.3.

          Here's my rank of Latino(Hispanic pitchers, note a few are Americans of Hispanic heritage Career considered not peak, hitting & post season play also considered. MLB only, not Negro League, Cuban League, etc:

          Pedro Martinez-Dominican Republic
          Marino Rivera- Panama. yes, he's that good. Career pitching WAA of 42.6
          Johan Santana- Venezuela
          Luis Tiant- Cuba, resides in Mexico
          Juan Marichal- Dominican Republic
          Felix Hernandez- Venezuela
          Carlos Zambrano- Venezuela
          Jose Rijo-Dominican Republic
          Dolf Luque-Cuba
          John Candelaria- New York born & bred, of Puerto Rican descent.
          Johnny Cueto- Dominican Republic
          Teddy Higuera-Mexico
          Bartolo Colon- Dominican Republic
          Dennis Martinez- Nicaragua
          ​​​​​​​Javier Vasquez- Puerto Rico
          Mike Garcia-Born & raised in California of Mexican descent
          Orlando Hernandez- Cuba
          Fernando Valenzuela- Mexico
          there are approximately two dozen candidates between Orlando & Livan Hernandez, (also between Fernando Valenzuela & Livan Hernandez) top is;
          Camilo Pascual- Cuba

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          • #6
            Originally posted by NJRob65 View Post
            I don't rank Colon that high among pitchers of Latino descent. Livan Hernandez doesn't merit mention, he has a career pitching WAA of -2.3.

            Here's my rank of Latino(Hispanic pitchers, note a few are Americans of Hispanic heritage Career considered not peak, hitting & post season play also considered. MLB only, not Negro League, Cuban League, etc:

            Pedro Martinez-Dominican Republic
            Marino Rivera- Panama. yes, he's that good. Career pitching WAA of 42.6
            Johan Santana- Venezuela
            Luis Tiant- Cuba, resides in Mexico
            Juan Marichal- Dominican Republic
            Felix Hernandez- Venezuela
            Carlos Zambrano- Venezuela
            Jose Rijo-Dominican Republic
            Dolf Luque-Cuba
            John Candelaria- New York born & bred, of Puerto Rican descent.
            Johnny Cueto- Dominican Republic
            Teddy Higuera-Mexico
            Bartolo Colon- Dominican Republic
            Dennis Martinez- Nicaragua
            Javier Vasquez- Puerto Rico
            Mike Garcia-Born & raised in California of Mexican descent
            Orlando Hernandez- Cuba
            Fernando Valenzuela- Mexico
            there are approximately two dozen candidates between Orlando & Livan Hernandez, (also between Fernando Valenzuela & Livan Hernandez) top is;
            Camilo Pascual- Cuba
            You have Tiant over Marichal?
            “There can be no higher law in journalism than to tell the truth and to shame the devil.” Walter Lippmann

            "I don't care if the guy is yellow or black, or if he has stripes like a ******* zebra. I'm the manager of this team and I say he [Robinson] plays." - Leo Durocher

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            • #7
              Originally posted by 1905 Giants View Post

              You have Tiant over Marichal?
              Tiant actually has more WAR and WAA than Marichal, in about the same number of innings. Crazy. I've always seen Tiant as a guy who was inconsistent and had a couple of really nice years, and Marichal as a guy who was great for a decade.

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