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The Deadball Centerfielders

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  • The Deadball Centerfielders

    ...not named Cobb and Speaker. Anyone care to rank these fellows?

    Ginger Beaumont
    Max Carey played a little more in the live ball era proper but played a deadball style.
    Fielder Jones was player/manager of the 'Hitless Wonders' World Series winning White Sox teams.
    Bennie Kauff
    Clyde Milan
    Edd Roush played more in the live ball era proper but played a deadball style and won a World Series (the Reds only HoFer) in the deadball era.
    Cy Seymour
    Chick Stahl is more famous for his suicide than his CF play.
    Roy Thomas

    If anyone cares to include Negro Leaguers...

    Spottswood Poles
    Jules Thomas, who I've never heard of.
    Cristobal Torriente

    ...be my guest.
    Last edited by bluesky5; 10-13-2018, 11:26 AM.
    "No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”

  • #2
    Just counting the deadball years (1901-1919)

    CFers according to B-Ref WAR:
    .
    3 Tommy Leach 1901 - 1918 16 CF 8401 45.9 37.9 7.2 0.0 0.8
    4 Clyde Milan 1907 - 1919 13 CF 7217 37.0 42.1 -0.1 0.0 -5.1
    5 Roy Thomas 1901 - 1911 11 CF 5198 32.3 33.0 2.6 0.0 -3.3
    6 Fielder Jones 1901 - 1915 10 CF 5087 31.7 27.5 7.9 0.0 -3.8
    7 Cy Seymour 1901 - 1913 11 CF 5510 3.0 30.7 32.4 2.3 -0.1 -3.8
    8 Max Carey 1910 - 1919 10 CF 5358 28.3 27.2 6.4 0.0 -5.3
    9 Benny Kauff 1912 - 1919 7 CF 3376 28.0 30.1 0.7 0.0 -2.8
    10 Mike Donlin 1901 - 1914 10 CF 3698 1.0 27.0 31.3 -0.8 0.1 -3.6
    11 Ginger Beaumont 1901 - 1910 10 CF 5160 26.6 31.9 -2.0 0.0 -3.2
    12 Amos Strunk 1908 - 1919 12 CF 4433 25.2 27.2 1.8 0.0 -3.7
    13 Dode Paskert 1907 - 1919 13 CF 6327 23.3 27.2 0.8 0.0 -4.6
    14 Johnny Bates 1906 - 1914 9 CF 4597 20.6 27.4 -2.5 0.0 -4.3
    15 Edd Roush 1913 - 1919 7 CF 2819 18.7 20.0 0.7 0.0 -2.1
    16 Chick Stahl 1901 - 1906 6 CF 3407 18.0 21.2 -0.9 0.0 -2.3
    17 Solly Hofman 1903 - 1916 14 CF 4691 17.0 16.4 3.0 0.0 -2.4
    18 Charlie Hemphill 1901 - 1911 10 CF 4839 16.9 22.8 -1.1 0.0 -4.8
    19 Tillie Walker 1911 - 1919 9 CF 3606 16.8 19.6 0.8 0.0 -3.6
    20 Fred Snodgrass 1908 - 1916 9 CF 3658 15.9 17.2 1.5 0.0 -2.8
    21 Rube Oldring 1905 - 1918 13 CF 5096 15.1 20.9 -1.2 0.0 -4.7
    22 Jimmy Barrett 1901 - 1908 8 CF 3089 14.9 16.0 1.1 0.0 -2.3
    23 Ping Bodie 1911 - 1919 7 CF 3540 14.7 18.3 -0.1 0.0 -3.5
    24 Jimmy Slagle 1901 - 1908 8 CF 4438 14.1 15.2 2.8 0.0 -3.9
    25 Happy Felsch 1915 - 1919 5 CF 2516 13.9 14.1 1.7 0.0 -1.8
    .


    19th Century League Champion
    1900s League Champion
    1910s League Champion

    1930s League Division Winner
    1950s League Champion
    1960 Strat-O-Matic League Regular Season Winner
    1960s League Division Winner
    1970s League Champion
    1971 Strat-O-Matic League Runner Up
    1980s League Champion
    All Time Greats League Champion

    Comment


    • #3
      Are you just copying and pasting the columns from the site or are you making your own table on BB-F?
      "No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by bluesky5 View Post
        Are you just copying and pasting the columns from the site or are you making your own table on BB-F?
        Just copying and pasting from the site , minus the top 2 guys.
        .


        19th Century League Champion
        1900s League Champion
        1910s League Champion

        1930s League Division Winner
        1950s League Champion
        1960 Strat-O-Matic League Regular Season Winner
        1960s League Division Winner
        1970s League Champion
        1971 Strat-O-Matic League Runner Up
        1980s League Champion
        All Time Greats League Champion

        Comment


        • #5
          1. Tommy Leach
          2. Pete Hill (Neg Lg)
          3. Clyde Milan
          4. Roy Thomas
          5. Fielder Jones
          6. Cy Seymour
          7. Max Carey
          8. Benny Kauff
          9. Mike Donlin
          10. Ginger Beaumont
          11. Cristobal Torriente (Neg Lg)
          12. Amos Strunk
          13. Dode Paskert
          14. Johnny Bates

          Comment


          • #6
            1. Max Carey
            ------------------------------
            -------- HOF line ---------
            2. Cy Seymour
            3. Edd Roush
            4. Benny Kauff
            ------------------------------
            5. Tommy Leach
            6. Ginger Beaumount
            7. Mike Donlin
            -----------------------------
            8. Roy Thomas
            -----------------------------
            9. Fielder Jones
            10. Chick Stahl
            11. Clyde Milan

            Comment


            • #7
              1. Max Carey
              2. Edd Roush
              3. Tommy Leach
              4. Mike Donlin
              5. Roy thomas
              6. Clyde Milan
              7. Ginger Beaumont
              8. Cy Seymour
              9. Fielder Jones
              10. Benny Kauff
              11. Chick Stahl

              Comment


              • #8
                Appreciate you guys taking the time. I know they're not easy to parse. Just want to see what everyone else thinks.
                "No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”

                Comment


                • #9
                  Based on a combination of advanced stats and reputation I'd put Carey, Roush, & Leach at the top, followed by Milan & Jones. Seymour, Beaumont, & Thomas would be in a dead heat for 6th through 8th.
                  Last edited by layson27; 10-17-2018, 10:09 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by layson27 View Post
                    Based on a combination of advanced stats and reputation I'd put Carey, Roush, & Leach at the top, followed by Milan & Jones. Seymour, Beaumont, & Thomas would be in a dead heat for 6th through 8th.
                    I'm surprised to see Leach over Milan. dgarza has Milan really low. I didn't realize how much CF Leach played. I always thought of him more as a third baseman. Milan is rarely talked about but he was probably the best leadoff batter of the deadball era. He was also an excellent CF due to his elite speed. When I was scrolling to see his advanced batting numbers I was expecting him to be a "WAR casualty" but he has 40 career WAR which is real solid and fits in my opinion. I was interested to see what people thought of him compared to both Seymour and Thomas.
                    "No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by bluesky5 View Post

                      I'm surprised to see Leach over Milan. dgarza has Milan really low. I didn't realize how much CF Leach played. I always thought of him more as a third baseman. Milan is rarely talked about but he was probably the best leadoff batter of the deadball era. He was also an excellent CF due to his elite speed. When I was scrolling to see his advanced batting numbers I was expecting him to be a "WAR casualty" but he has 40 career WAR which is real solid and fits in my opinion. I was interested to see what people thought of him compared to both Seymour and Thomas.
                      Milan had one of the least impressive peaks of these CFers. His career WAA is 8.1, which I believe is the lowest of this bunch. And his BB-Ref defensive metrics are probably below average.

                      This is not to say that Milan wasn't a fine player (of course he was), it's just that he's not as impressive as most of these other CFers.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by bluesky5 View Post

                        I'm surprised to see Leach over Milan. dgarza has Milan really low. I didn't realize how much CF Leach played. I always thought of him more as a third baseman. Milan is rarely talked about but he was probably the best leadoff batter of the deadball era. He was also an excellent CF due to his elite speed. When I was scrolling to see his advanced batting numbers I was expecting him to be a "WAR casualty" but he has 40 career WAR which is real solid and fits in my opinion. I was interested to see what people thought of him compared to both Seymour and Thomas.
                        Milan got MVP votes in all four years of the Chalmers award (1911-1914), including three straight top tens, plus he was also on Clark Griffith's 1912 "All-Star" team, so he was certainly thought of as a great ballplayer. Leach with his combined value at multiple positions and impressive DRA numbers puts him ahead as a positon player, but I'm not sure he was a better CF than Milan.
                        Last edited by layson27; 10-18-2018, 08:59 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by layson27 View Post

                          Milan got MVP votes in all four years of the Chalmers award (1911-1914), including three straight top tens, plus he was also on Clark Griffith's 1912 "All-Star" team, so he was certainly thought of as a great ballplayer. Leach with his combined value at multiple positions and impressive DRA numbers puts him ahead as a positon player, but I'm not sure he was a better CF than Milan.
                          Yea, led the league in stolen bases twice in the same league as Cobb. Too bad he couldn't hang on long enough to play a World Series with Washington. He was on some really, really bad teams.
                          "No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            1. Cristobal Torriente
                            2. Pete Hill

                            3. Max Carey


                            4. Edd Roush
                            5. Jules Thomas
                            6. Cy Seymour

                            7. Roy Thomas
                            8. Spotswood Poles
                            9. Clyde Milan

                            10. Benny Kauff
                            11. Ginger Beaumont
                            12. Chick Stahl
                            Jacquelyn Eva Marchand (1983-2017)
                            http://www.tezakfuneralhome.com/noti...uelyn-Marchand

                            Comment

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