Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

BB-Ref. Missing Standings

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • BB-Ref. Missing Standings

    Why is BB-Ref. missing so many league standings for Negro & Minor Leagues now? I don't recall this information missing before. Every team league I go to has no standings.
    "No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”

  • #2
    I noticed this as well, but then I ask myself if I was sure it was there. What I do when I see missing data on BB-Ref for minor league teams, I look to see if I have the data in a Sporting News Guide the year after or a Spalding, Reach, or Beadle's Ball Player Dime Guide... I find lots of missing data on BB-Ref for minor league teams in The Sporting News Baseball Guides. At one point I had ever guide from 1942 through 2006 with the exception of three years. For several years, I would start my minor league research at BB-Ref and then go to the TSN Guides. In more recent years, I have been trying to reconstruct the 1877 League Alliance, International Association and the New England League. But this has been a side project of mine for a few years and use it as a break from bigger projects I have worked on. Another side project I have not finished yet is reconstructing not only the 1887 National Colored League but the Negro independent clubs of the same season. When Seamheads produced their data for the NCL, it provided a huge leap in my research. Again, it was another side project of mine.

    And as happens with research, you run across other interesting information that leads you into another side project or sometimes a new major project. Then I have to stop, reorganize, and prioritize my research.

    But back to your question, I don't know why their seems to be missing standings that I too, thought once existed on BB-Ref.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by SWCBaseball View Post
      I noticed this as well, but then I ask myself if I was sure it was there. What I do when I see missing data on BB-Ref for minor league teams, I look to see if I have the data in a Sporting News Guide the year after or a Spalding, Reach, or Beadle's Ball Player Dime Guide... I find lots of missing data on BB-Ref for minor league teams in The Sporting News Baseball Guides. At one point I had ever guide from 1942 through 2006 with the exception of three years. For several years, I would start my minor league research at BB-Ref and then go to the TSN Guides. In more recent years, I have been trying to reconstruct the 1877 League Alliance, International Association and the New England League. But this has been a side project of mine for a few years and use it as a break from bigger projects I have worked on. Another side project I have not finished yet is reconstructing not only the 1887 National Colored League but the Negro independent clubs of the same season. When Seamheads produced their data for the NCL, it provided a huge leap in my research. Again, it was another side project of mine.

      And as happens with research, you run across other interesting information that leads you into another side project or sometimes a new major project. Then I have to stop, reorganize, and prioritize my research.

      But back to your question, I don't know why their seems to be missing standings that I too, thought once existed on BB-Ref.
      Yea, I'm 100% certain they had it. Because I sorted teams in the various Negro League's by standings because the best teams would be most likely to have players that got a shot in the major leagues.
      "No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”

      Comment


      • #4
        I agree but I keep forgetting I have alzheimers…. I have a project I haven't started yet but have been working in the back of my mind where I take each season and evaluate as to which MLB team each NegLg player could be placed if they were capable. In other words, if I look at a MLB roster and if I could replace the weakest catcher in the league with Josh Gibson or take the weakest CF in the majors and replace them with Oscar Charleston or something to that affect. I want to do that for each season only to see what integrated rosters might look like and wonder how much the standings would change by integrating the rosters. Imagine last place teams may get 3, 4 maybe 5 NegLg players and turn their season around. It is one of those things I haven't had the time for but would love to do just for my curiosity. Then, I would probably sim the season just to get an idea... hmmm....

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by SWCBaseball View Post
          I agree but I keep forgetting I have alzheimers…. I have a project I haven't started yet but have been working in the back of my mind where I take each season and evaluate as to which MLB team each NegLg player could be placed if they were capable. In other words, if I look at a MLB roster and if I could replace the weakest catcher in the league with Josh Gibson or take the weakest CF in the majors and replace them with Oscar Charleston or something to that affect. I want to do that for each season only to see what integrated rosters might look like and wonder how much the standings would change by integrating the rosters. Imagine last place teams may get 3, 4 maybe 5 NegLg players and turn their season around. It is one of those things I haven't had the time for but would love to do just for my curiosity. Then, I would probably sim the season just to get an idea... hmmm....
          That's cool. I just found it interesting to find the lesser known early integration black players and find out why they flamed out so early. Seems like not very many black guys jumped to the majors successfully in their early 30's. It kind of seemed like major league clubs would have rather had younger black players and brought them up through their minor league clubs. Al Smith pops to mind. I can't remember a lot of the guys I looked at I did this like 7 years ago. I just remember thinking that it seemed the younger black players did better in the majors. I didn't compile data on it I just came to that conclusion after going over the guys. Some older guys did really good like Sam Jethroe and Monte Irvin. Some never got the chance they deserved like Ray Dandridge and some were too old like Quincy Trouppe.
          "No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by bluesky5 View Post

            That's cool. I just found it interesting to find the lesser known early integration black players and find out why they flamed out so early. Seems like not very many black guys jumped to the majors successfully in their early 30's. It kind of seemed like major league clubs would have rather had younger black players and brought them up through their minor league clubs. Al Smith pops to mind. I can't remember a lot of the guys I looked at I did this like 7 years ago. I just remember thinking that it seemed the younger black players did better in the majors. I didn't compile data on it I just came to that conclusion after going over the guys. Some older guys did really good like Sam Jethroe and Monte Irvin. Some never got the chance they deserved like Ray Dandridge and some were too old like Quincy Trouppe.
            I am only speculating because I haven't done a study or analyzed the subject but I would think the same would be true for young negro league players as they would for any race during integration or any other time period. Unless, one is a natural athletic player who could jump directly to the majors in any era, going through a structured minor league process prior to advancing to the Majors would be a benefit for players to develop their skills. While the Majors were starting to establish relationships with minor league systems in the twenties and moreso into the thirties, I don't believe the Negro Leagues had such a system. In the case of Ray Dandridge, he played for the Minneapolis Millers of the American Association from 1949 through 1952 and for the Sacramento Salons and the Oakland Oaks of the PCL in 1953 finishing his minor league career for an Independent team in 1955, Bismarck Barons. Minneapolis was an affiliate of the New York Giants. Dandridge was primarily a 3b during the minors and while he played in the Negro Leagues and Mexican Leagues. In 5 Minor League seasons his slash was .312/.353/.411 with an OPS of .764.... In career Negro League slash was .323/.363/.434 with an OPS of .798

            Keep in mind, Dandridge was 35 years old when he signed to the Giants affiliate in 1949. In 1949, the Giants 3b was Sid Gordon with a .909 OPS and an OPS+ of 142. In 1950, 24 year old Hank Thompson took over 3b, then platooned with Bobby Thomson in 1951, then Bobby Thomson became the regular 3b in 1952. All three Giants 3b had better numbers with the Giants and Dandridge did with the Millers. In a sense, Dandridge was with the wrong affiliate at an advanced age. For Dandridge to have made it to the majors at his age, he would have had to have been signed to play for another team and played immediately, maybe even played a different position. His minor league numbers look good enough for a shot at the majors but not the Giants.

            Again, I am only speculating without studying the subject,.... yet.

            Comment


            • #7
              Yea, the Giants definitely had good reasons to keep Dandridge down that had nothing to do with race. I think he also deserved a call up. But when it comes to that a younger guy is almost always going to get the call. I wonder if Dandridge had offers from any other major league clubs?
              "No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by bluesky5 View Post
                Yea, the Giants definitely had good reasons to keep Dandridge down that had nothing to do with race. I think he also deserved a call up. But when it comes to that a younger guy is almost always going to get the call. I wonder if Dandridge had offers from any other major league clubs?
                I don't know, but out of 16 teams at the time, I would think at least one could have used a man of his skill over what they had.

                Comment

                Ad Widget

                Collapse
                Working...
                X