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  • Your All-Time All-Star Teams, A & B

    I know that we're done this before, but we have an entirely new cast of guys posting here now. So I'd like to see our new guys All-Time, All-Time Teams, A and B. If any of the older guys wants to re-post their teams again, be our guests. And as a new wrinkle, how about adding at the end, your top 5 all-around position players, & top 5 pitchers, too. Just to be complete. If you want.

    So here's the model I'd like to see.

    My All-Time All-Star team.

    A team

    1B - Sisler
    2B - Collins
    3B - Schmidt
    SS - Wagner
    LF - Mays
    CF - Speaker
    RF - Cobb
    1C - Ewing
    2C - Mackay
    SP - Johnson
    SP - Mathewson
    SP - Koufax
    SP - Ryan
    Long Relief P - Alexander
    Short Relief P - Spahn
    Short Relief P - Waddell
    closer - Paige
    DH: - Babe Ruth, (if you believe in the DH), not required
    Manager - Mack
    Assistant manager - McGraw
    Utility: Oscar Charleston, J. Robinson, B. Bonds, Lajoie, Clemente

    B team

    1B - Gehrig,
    2B - Hornsby
    3B - Brett
    SS - Pop Lloyd
    LF - Joe Jackson
    CF - Clemente
    RF - Aaron
    1C - Bench
    2C - Pudge Rodriguez
    SP - Maddux
    SP - M. Brown
    SP - "Smokey Joe" Williams
    SP - "Bullet Joe" Rogan
    Long Relief P - Clemens
    Short Relief P - Feller
    Short Relief P - Grove
    closer - Amos Rusie
    DH: - Ted Williams, (if you believe in the DH), not required
    Manager - Stengel
    Assistant manager - Ned Hanlon
    Utility: J. Morgan, Martin Dihigo, Anson, King Kelly, Bill Lange

    I think it is balanced in terms of eras, black/white, offense/defense, slugger/ set-up hitter, power pitcher/control pitcher.

    Top 6 Position players: Cobb, Wagner, Mays, Bonds, Ruth, Charleston,
    Top 5 P: Johnson, Matty, Alexander, Grove, Paige
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Form Chart:

    Catchers:

    Pre-1910: Jack Clements, "Deacon" Jim McGuire, Red Charlie Dooin, Buck Ewing, Mike "King" Kelly, Charlie Bennett, Charles "Pop" Snyder, Marty Bergen, Bill Bergen, Johnny Kling, Roger Bresnahan, Chief Zimmer, Duke Farrell, John Warner, Wilbert Robinson, Doc Bushong, Moses Fleetwood Walker.

    1910-60: Hank Severeid, Bob O'Farrell, Bill Killefer, Ray Schalk, Wally Schang, Johnny Bassler, Walker Cooper, Sherman Lollar, Jim Hegan, Jimmy Archer, Muddy Ruel, Steve O'Neil, Billy Sullivan, Mickey Cochrane, Bill Dickey, Gabby Hartnett, Al Lopez, Ernie Lombardi, Walker Cooper, Rick Ferrell, Yogi Berra, Roy Campanella, Del Crandall, Smokey Burgess.

    1960-present: Ted Simmons, Lance Parrish, Jim Sundberg, Jerry Grote, Johnny Bench, Gary Carter, Carlton Fisk, Thurman Munson, Mike Piazza, Ivan "Pudge" Rodriguez, Bill Freehan, Benito Santiago, Charles Johnson, Bob Boone

    Negro Leagues:
    Josh Gibson (1929-1946)
    Louis "Santop" Loftin (1909-26)
    Bruce Petway (1906-25);
    Frank Duncan (1920-48)
    Larry Brown (1919-49)
    James Raleigh "Biz" Mackey (1920-47, '50)

    1B -

    Pre-1900: Joe Start, Roger Connor, Charles Comiskey, Wes Fisler, Dan Brouthers, Jake Beckley, Fred Tenney, Ed Konetchy, Jake Daubert, Adrian "Cap" Anson, Dave Orr, Henry Larkin, Cal McVey.

    Frank Chance, Stuffy McInnis, Jim Bottomley, Jack Fournier, Lu Blue, Hal Chase, George Sisler, Lou Gehrig, Jimmie Foxx, Hank Greenberg, Bill Terry, Johnny Mize, Ted Kluszewski, Gil Hodges, Vic Power, Orlando Cepeda, Willie McCovey, Harmon Killebrew, Wes Parker, Steve Garvey, Cecil Cooper, Cecil Fielder, Kent Hrbek, Tony Perez, Keith Hernandez, Eddie Murray, Don Mattingly, Will Clark, Mark McGwire, Jeff Bagwell, Frank Thomas, Rafael Palmeiro, Carlos Delgado, Jason Giambi, JT Snow, Todd Helton, Darien Erstad, Albert Pujols; Negro Leagues: Buck Leonard, Ben Taylor.

    2B

    Pre-1900: Ross Barnes, Jack Burdock, Fred Pfeffer, Cupid Childs, Bid McPhee, Jimmy Williams, Fred Dunlap, Hardy Richardson, Sol White, Frank Grant, Bud Fowler, Gene DeMontreville.

    Larry Doyle, Bobby Lowe, Nap Lajoie, Eddie Collins, Rogers Hornsby, George Cutshaw, Charlie Gehringer, Frankie Frisch, Jackie Robinson, Rod Carew, Joe Morgan, Nellie Fox, Bobby Grich, Bill Mazeroski, Red Schoendiest, Ryne Sandberg, Robbie Alomar, Craig Biggio, Alfonso Soriano; Negro Leagues: Elwood "Bingo" DeMoss

    SS

    Pre-1900: George Wright, Ed McKean, John Montgomery Ward, Jack Glasscock, Herman Long, Hughie Jennings, George Davis, Bill Dahlen, Tommy Corcoran, Freddie Parent, Dickey Pearce

    Honus Wagner, Joe Tinker, Bobby Wallace, George McBride, Roger Peckinpaugh, Everett Scott, Joe Sewell, Luke Appling, Art Fletcher, Bill Dahlen, Donie Bush, Rabbit Maranville, Glenn Wright, Arky Vaughn, Lou Boudreau, Joe Cronin, Marty Marion, Pee Wee Reese, Phil Rizzuto, Luis Aparicio, Ernie Banks, Maury Wills, Robin Yount, Cal Ripken, Alan Trammell, Dave Concepcion, Barry Larkin, Omar Vizquel, Julio Franco, Nomar Garciaparra, Derek Jeter, Alexander Rodriguez; Negro Leagues: John "Pop" Lloyd, John Beckwith, Willie Wells.

    3B:

    Pre-1900:
    Ezra Sutton, Levi Meyerle, Bob Ferguson, Arlie Latham, Ned Williamson, John McGraw, Jimmie Collins, Bill Nash, Jim Davis, Lave Cross, Denny Lyons, Deacon White, Jerry Denny, Bill Joyce, Levi Meyerle.

    Harry Steinfelft, Tommy Leach, Frank Baker, Bill Bradley, Willie Kamm, Ossie Bluege, Pie Traynor, Billy Cox, Eddie Mathews, Ken Boyer, Clete Boyer, Ron Santo, Brooks Robinson, Mike Schmidt, George Brett, Wade Boggs, Bill Madlock, Paul Molitor, Eric Chavez, Scott Rolen. Negro Leagues: Judy Johnson, Ray Dandridge, Oliver Marcell.

    LF

    Pre-1900: Harry Stovey, Ed Delahanty, Jesse Burkett, Jim O'Rourke, Tip O'Neill, Abner Dalrymple

    Sherry Magee, Ted Williams, Stan Musial, Barry Bonds, Ricky Henderson, Carl Yasztrzemski, Joe Jackson, Al Simmons, Billy Williams, Ralph Kiner, Fred Clarke, Zack Wheat, Jimmy Sheckard, Duffy Lewis, Joe "Ducky" Medwick, Willie Stargell, Manny Ramirez.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    CF:

    Pre-1900: Jimmie McAleer, Bill Lange, Jimmy Ryan, George Gore, Harry Wright, Paul Hines, Lip Pike, Tom Brown, George Van Haltren, Dummy Hoy, Billy Hamilton, Hugh Duffy, Ollie Pickering, Pete Browning, Curt Welch, Dickey Johnson, Mike Griffin

    1900-1940: Ty Cobb, Tris Speaker, Eddie Roush, Max Carey, Clyde Milan, Clarence "Ginger" Beaumont, Oscar "Happy" Felsch, Chick Stahl, Johnny Mostil, Benny Kauff, Lloyd Waner, Earl Averill, Hack Wilson, Wally Berger, Earle Combs.

    1940-1970: Joe DiMaggio, Willie Mays, Mickey Mantle, Duke Snider, Richie Ashburn, Pete Reiser, Larry Doby, Jim Piersall, Jim Landis, Bill Virdon, Vada Pinson, Jimmy Wynn, Bobby Thompson, Curt Flood.

    1970-present: Ken Griffey, Jr., Brett Butler, Andruw Jones, Tori Hunter, Mike Cameron, Jim Edmonds, Mark Kotsay, Dale Murphy, Kirby Puckett, Bernie Williams, Carlos Beltran, Johnny Damon, Fred Lynn, Cesar Cedeno, Steve Finley, Andre Dawson, Al Oliver, Bobby Murcer, and Eric Davis, Willie McGee, Willie Wilson, Mickey Rivers and Kenny Lofton.

    Negro Leaguers: Oscar Charleston, "Cool Papa" Bell, Christobal Carlos Torriente, Spot Poles, Pete Hill, Clint "Hawk" Thomas, Chino Smith, Martin Dihigo
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    RF -

    Pre-1900: Willie Keeler, Jimmy Fogarty, Sam Thompson, Mike Tiernan, Oyster Burns

    Babe Ruth, Hank Aaron, Frank Robinson, Mel Ott, Pete Rose, Tony Gwynn, Reggie Jackson, Roberto Clemente, Paul Waner, Sam Crawford, Al Kaline, Dave Winfield, Harry Heilmann, Tony Oliva, Vlad Guerrero, Gavvy Cravath, Chuck Klein, Harry Hooper, Roger Maris, Dale Murphy, Sammie Sosa, Ross Youngs, Daryl Strawberry, Larry Walker.

    Pitchers:

    Pre - 1900: Tim Keefe, John "Monte" Ward, Bob Caruthers, John Clarkson, Jim "Pud" Galvin, Mickey Welch, Sadie McMahon, Jim McCormick, Charlie "Old Hoss" Radbourne, Amos Rusie, Jim Whitney, Larry Corcoran, Al Spalding, Cy Young, Kid Nichols, Charlie Ferguson, Tony Mullane, Bobby Mathews, Tommy Bond, Jim Creighton, Gus Weyhing, Jack Stivetts, Will White

    1900-1930: Christy Mathewson, Rube Waddell, Mordecai Brown, Addie Joss, Ed Walsh, Walter Johnson, Grover Alexander, Eddie Plank, Joe McGinnity, Chief Bender, Ed Reulbach, Nap Rucker, Wilbur Cooper, Deacon Phillippe, Dazzy Vance, Stan Coveleski, Herb Pennock, Carl Mays, Ed Cicotte, Bill Dinneen, Ted Lyons, Eppa Rixey, Vic Willis, Hippo Vaughn, Dutch Leonard, Urban Shocker, Burleigh Grimes, Doc White, Nick Altrock, Sam Jones, Jack Coombs, Joe Wood, Jack Chesbro, Jim Bagby, Bullet Joe Bush, Waite Hoyt, Red Faber, Bob Shawkey, Ray Caldwell, Ray Collins, George Mogridge, Earl Hamilton, George Uhle, Eddie Rommel, Lefty Grove,

    1930-1960: Dizzy Dean, Carl Hubbell, Whitey Ford, Robin Roberts, Wes Ferrell, Bob Lemon, Lefty Gomez, Hal Newhouser, Red Ruffing, Bucky Walters, Early Wynn, Billy Pierce, Warren Spahn, Bob Feller, Don Newcombe, Tommy Bridges, Lon Warneke, Mel Harder, Bob Turley, Harry Breechen and Bobby Shantz.

    1960-1980: Nolan Ryan, Gaylord Perry, Steve Carlton, Sandy Koufax, Juan Marichal, Bob Gibson, Phil Niekro, Jim "Catfish" Hunter, Ferguson Jenkins, Wilbur Wood, Don Drysdale, Tom Seaver, Jim Bunning, Mickey Lolich, Luis Tiant, Sparky Lyle, Tommy John, Jim Kaat, Dave Stieb, Bert Blyleven, Lew Burdette, Curt Simmons, Harvey Haddix, Johnny Antonelli, Vern Law, Bob Purkey, Johnny Podres, Joe Nuxhall, Ron Perranoski, Bob Veale, Dick Ellsworth, Jim Maloney, Chris Short, Bob Friend, Jim Palmer, Milt Pappas, Jerry Koosman, Dock Ellis, Sam McDowell.

    1980-Present: Greg Maddux, Roger Clemens, Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez, Curt Schilling, Jack Morris, Kevin Brown, John Smoltz, Mike Mussina, Tom Glavine.

    Negro Leagues:
    Robert Leroy "Satchel" Paige, 1926-1967
    "Smokey Joe" Williams, 1905-1932
    Wilbur "Bullet Joe" Rogan, 1917-38
    "Cannonball" Dick Redding, 1911-38
    Dave Brown, 1918-1925
    Andrew "Rube" Foster, 1902-1926
    Bill Foster, 1923-38
    Ray Brown (1930-1948)
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Relievers Form Chart:

    Code:
    Name, Era-------------------------Saves-----G. Fin.-------INN ---------ERA+
    Firpo Marberry, 1923-1936,--------101--------271----------2,067--------134
    Hoyt Wilhelm, 1952-1972,--------- 227--------651----------2,254.3------146
    Roy Face, 1953-1969, -------------193--------574----------1,375.0------109
    Ron Perranoski, 1961-1973,--------179--------458----------1,174--------123
    Dick Radatz, 1962-1969------------122--------297------------693.7------122
    John Hiller, 1965-1980,-----------125--------363----------1,040--------134
    Sparky Lyle, 1967-1982,-----------238--------634----------1,292--------127
    Rollie Fingers, 1968-1985---------341--------709----------1,701.3------119
    Rich "Goose" Gossage, 1972-1994---310--------681----------1,809.3------126
    Kent Tekulve, 1974-1989,----------638--------184----------1,436.3------132
    Gary Lavelle, 1974-1987-----------399--------136----------1,085.0------126
    Dennis Eckersley, 1975-1998-------390--------577----------3,285.7------116
    Bruce Sutter, 1976-1988-----------300--------512----------1,042.3------136
    Dan Quisenberry, 1979-1990--------244--------553----------1,043.3------146
    Jeff Reardon, 1979-1994-----------367--------695----------1,132.2------121
    Dave Righetti, 1979-1995----------252--------474----------1,403.7------114
    Jesse Orosco, 1979-2003,----------501--------144----------1,295.0------125
    Lee Smith, 1980-1997--------------478--------802----------1,289.3------132
    Tom Henke, 1982-95----------------311--------548------------789--------156
    Doug Jones, 1982-2000,------------640--------303----------1,128.3------130
    John Franco, 1984-present---------424--------770----------1,230.7------139*
    Mike Jackson, 1986-2004,----------422--------142----------1,188.3------126
    Jeff Montgomery, 1987-1999,-------304--------549------------868--------134
    John Wetteland, 1989--------------330--------523------------765--------148
    Trevor Hoffman, 1993-present------394--------578------------764.7------148*
    Robb Nen, 1993-2002---------------314--------548------------715.0------138
    Mariano Rivera, 1995-present------336--------424------------728.3------190* 
    Billy Wagner, 1995-present--------246--------417------------552.7------169*
    Eric Gagne, 1999-present----------152--------197------------530--------124*
    * = Still Active
    Last edited by Bill Burgess; 07-20-2008, 12:43 PM.

  • #2
    A Team:

    1B - Lou Gherig
    2B - Rogers Hornsby
    3B - Pie Traynor
    SS - Honus Wagner
    LF - Babe Ruth
    CF - Willie Mays
    RF - Joe Jackson
    1C - Yogi Berra
    2C - Josh Gibson
    SP - Walter Johnson
    SP - Christy Mathewson
    SP - Sandy Koufax
    SP - Mordecai Peter Centennial Brown
    SP - Lefty Grove
    RP - Bob Feller
    RP - Bob Gibson
    RP - Mariano Rivera
    DH: - Ted Williams
    Manager - Connie Mack
    Assistant manager - Miller Huggins
    Utility (since they're utility guys, I'm going to focus primarily on the types of things utility guys do... defense, pinch running, pinch hitting, rather than just have the best available player slot in).

    U: Oscar Charleston
    U: Rickey Henderson
    U: Jackie Robinson
    U: Ozzie Smith

    B Team

    1B - Jimmie Foxx
    2B - Joe Morgan
    3B - Pepper Martin (I'd be willing to enter into a debate over the reasoning behind this choice with anyone who'd like)
    SS - Alex Rodriguez
    LF - Mickey Mantle
    CF - Tris Speaker
    RF - Ty Cobb
    1C - Roy Campanella
    2C - Bill Dickey
    SP - Grover Cleveland Alexander
    SP - Nolan Ryan
    SP - Carl Hubbell
    SP - Pedro Martinez
    SP - Dizzy Dean
    RP - Satchell Paige
    RP - Whitey Ford (this was my absolute last pick, and it came down to him and Waddell... I figured I'd go with Ford since somebody already mentioned Waddell).
    RP - Denis Eckersley
    DH: - Mark McGwire
    Manager - Casey Stengel
    Assistant manager - John McGraw
    U: Cool Papa Bell
    U: Bill Mazeroski
    U: Joe Cronin
    U: Al Kaline
    Last edited by Bill Burgess; 07-15-2005, 07:40 AM.
    "Simply put, the passion, interest and tradition surrounding baseball in New York is unmatched."

    Sean McAdam, ESPN.com

    Comment


    • #3
      well, here goes. Keep in mind that I'm an impressionistic baseball fan, not really a numbers guy.
      Team A
      1B-Gherig
      2B-Morgan
      3B-Matthews
      SS-Wagner
      LF-Bonds
      CF-Cobb
      RF-Ruth
      C-Bench
      C-Rodriguez
      SP-Gibson
      SP-Dean
      SP-Feller
      SP-Paige
      SP-Clemens
      SP-Spahn
      SP-Alexander
      RP-Eckersley
      DH-Ted Williams
      Manager-McGraw
      Asst.-Sparky
      U-Cronin
      U-Hornsby
      U-Jackie Rob.
      U-Frank Rob.

      Team B

      1B-Foxx
      2B-Lajoie
      3B-Schmidt
      SS-Rodgriguez
      LF-Musial
      CF-Mays
      RF-Aaron
      C-Gibson
      C-Lombardi
      SP-Walter Johnson
      SP-Cy Young
      SP-Pedro
      SP-Carlton
      SP-Smokey Joe Williams
      SP-Roberts
      SP-Maddux
      RP-Rivera
      DH-Ricky
      Manager-Mack
      Asst.-McCarthy
      U-Charleston, Mantle, DiMaggio, King Kelly

      I hope you don't take too much exception to this list. I'm sure I've overlooked some and overvalued others, but then again, this is TOTALLY arbitrary (especially if you don't care too much for numbers)
      "Dum vixi, bibi libenter. bibite vos, qui vivitis!" "While I lived, I drank freely, you who still live, drink!" Roman Epitaph B 243

      Comment


      • #4
        I don't know what SRP is? You didn't say if this is a team we are going to keep together with everyone coming in as rookies, or whether we should use peak value or what. Yeah I know, I waffled on a couple

        A team (of course I'm gonna cram as many good guys on this as possible, leaving B team's pitchers a little worse)
        1B-Gehrig
        2B-Lajoie
        3B-Schmidt
        SS-Wagner
        LF-Bonds
        CF-Cobb/Mays
        RF-Ruth
        1C-JGibson
        2C-Berra
        SP-WJohnson
        SP-LGrove
        SP-PAlexander
        SP-Clemens
        SP-Paige
        RP-CMathewson
        RP-Nichols
        RP-Seaver
        DH-Hornsby/TWilliams
        MGR-Alston or B. Martin (but keep him away from the starters)
        UT-Mantle,Charleston,Musial,Speaker

        B team:
        1B-Foxx
        2B-ECollins/Morgan
        3B-Brett
        SS-PLloyd/Ripken/Vaughan
        LF-TWilliams/must put Speaker somewhere
        CF-Mays/Cobb
        RF-Aaron
        1C-Bench
        2C-Cochrane
        SP-CYoung
        SP-Maddux
        SP-Feller
        SP-Spahn
        SP-Gibson
        RP-Eckersley (more traditional closers)
        RP-Wilhelm
        RP-Rivera
        RP-do I have to do anymore?
        DH-McGwire?
        MGR-Weaver/Valentine
        UT-Dihigo
        Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
        Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

        Comment


        • #5
          A Team:

          1B: Lou Gehrig
          2B: Eddie Collins
          3B: Mike Schmidt
          SS: Honus Wagner
          LF: Ted Williams
          CF: Ty Cobb
          RF: Babe Ruth
          C: Johnny Bench
          SP: Walter Johnson
          SP: Sandy Koufax
          SP: Christy Mathewson
          SP: Cy Young
          SP: Pedro Martinez
          Closer: Dennis Eckersly
          DH: Barry Bonds
          Manager: Connie Mack
          Asst. Manager: Sparky Anderson

          B Team:

          1B: Jimmie Foxx
          2B: Joe Morgan
          3B: Pie Traynor
          SS: Alex Rodriguez
          LF: Stan Musial
          CF: Willie Mays
          RF: Hank Aaron
          C: Yogi Berra
          SP: Tom Seaver
          SP: Nolan Ryan
          SP: Pete Alexander
          SP: Bob Gibson
          Closer: Mariano Rivera
          DH: Rogers Hornsby
          Manager: Casey Stengel
          Asst. Manager: Tony LaRussa

          Comment


          • #6
            Many of you probably know I love deciding things by the numbers, and while I still considered numbers with this one, I decided to go on personal feelings as well. I'm prepared to be flamed for some of my more glaring absences.

            A Team-

            C-Johnny Bench
            1B-Lou Gehrig
            2B-Joe Morgan
            3B-Mike Schmidt
            SS-Honus Wagner
            LF-Stan Musial
            CF-Willie Mays
            RF-Hank Aaron
            SP-Roger Clemens
            SP-Pete Alexander
            SP-Walter Johnson
            SP-Randy Johnson
            Long Relief-Hoyt Wilhelm
            Short Relief-Dan Quisenberry
            Short Relief-Trevor Hoffman
            Closer-Mariano Rivera
            DH-Paul Molitor
            Utility-Rogers Hornsby
            Utility-Ty Cobb
            Utility-Jimmie Foxx
            Utility-Alex Rodriguez
            Backup Catcher-Yogi Berra
            Manager-Casey Stengal
            Assistant Manager-Joe Torre

            B (for backup) Team-

            C-Mike Piazza
            1B-Jeff Bagwell
            2B-Eddie Collins
            3B-George Brett
            SS-Robin Yount
            LF-Ted Williams
            CF-Mickey Mantle
            RF-Babe Ruth
            SP-Carl Hubbell
            SP-Warren Spahn
            SP-Lefty Grove
            SP-
            Long Relief-Kid Nichols
            Short Relief-Joe McGinnity
            Short Relief-Whitey Ford
            Closer-Hoyt Wilhelm
            DH-Edgar Martinez
            Utility-Jake Beckley
            Utility-Mike Schmidt
            Utility-Stan Musial
            Utility-Hank Aaron
            Backup Catcher-Carlton Fisk
            Manager-Tony La Russa
            Assistant Manager-Connie Mack
            Last edited by The Dude; 03-28-2007, 05:31 PM.
            AL East Champions: 1981 1982
            AL Pennant: 1982
            NL Central Champions: 2011
            NL Wild Card: 2008

            "It was like coming this close to your dreams and then watching them brush past you like a stranger in a crowd. At the time you don't think much of it; you know, we just don't recognize the significant moments of our lives while they're happening. Back then I thought, 'Well, there'll be other days.' I didn't realize that that was the only day." - Moonlight Graham

            Comment


            • #7
              OK, Zeth's All-Time team, as of today. Bill, it's not *exactly* the format you asked for, but I wrote it for other purposes in addition to this board and I wanted to include the explanations, so I hope you'll let me slide with that. Everything that's on your team is on mine, though, except the DHs.

              A TEAM

              CATCHER: Josh Gibson. Gibson was one of the great sluggers in the history of baseball, and was also regarded as a good defensive catcher despite his great size. Everyone who saw him was in awe of him. I have little doubt that he was the greatest catcher in the history of the game.

              FIRST BASE: Lou Gehrig. I think Lou's pretty far ahead of his competition. He was lethal with the stick, of course, and ranks among the all-time leaders in OBP, and he also played a good first base. Very consistent, as well, combining the virtues of a consistently excellent career and a very high peak.

              SECOND BASE: Eddie Collins. Collins was one of the very best players in the history of the game at doing the "little things," and one of the smartest players baseball has seen. This in itself is not, contrary to popular opinion, enough to make a man an all-timer -- but it sure is when you could hit, run and field like Collins could. He was the total package.

              SHORTSTOP: Honus Wagner, obviously.

              THIRD BASE: Mike Schmidt. I don't think he was the glove wizard reflected in the gold glove voting -- the voters tend to pick one guy and keep giving to them until they find a real good reason not to -- but he was certainly an excellent defensive third baseman. And his offensive numbers, in an era that was close to historical norms, speak for themselves.

              LEFT FIELD: Ted Williams. Possibly the greatest pure hitter in baseball history. Average to above average in fielding and running. Rates a distinct edge over Musial in my mind.

              CENTER FIELD: Ty Cobb and Willie Mays, platooning. As I read all the arguments presented in these forums, as well as my own personal analysis and study, I'm slowly coming to the conclusion that Mays probably deserves to rate one notch ahead Cobb as the #2 player in history, Cobb third and Wagner fourth. I know you won't like that, Bill, but forgive me. Willie did everything Cobb could do. Cobb might have been the greatest baserunner in history -- but Willie Mays has to be one of the five greatest. He was phenomenal on the basepaths. Mays is the superior fielder. I think they rate about even as hitters. All things considered, I think Mays is a tiny squeak better, just a tad. Not enough to deny Ty Cobb a lineup spot, though. So I'll platoon them on my all-time team.

              RIGHT FIELD: Babe Ruth.

              EXTRA CATCHER: Johnny Bench. Bench was an all-time great as a defensive catcher, and also one of the five or ten best offensive catchers ever. If you look up "catcher" in the dictionary, there ought to be a picture of Johnny Bench.

              EXTRA INFIELDERS: Joe Morgan and Alex Rodriguez. Morgan could do anything. He was fast as the wind, played outstanding defense, and had a sky-high OBP despite his mediocre average. A-Rod is the second-greatest shortstop ever, right now.

              EXTRA OUTFIELDERS: I'll pick just one for this team since I have two CFs already, and it's Mickey Mantle. He had a lot of the same skills as Willie Mays (meaning, he was outstanding at everything), but injuries kept his career from being quite as great as Willie's. He did have a fantastic career, though.

              STARTING PITCHERS:

              Satchel Paige. I believe Satch was the greatest pitcher in history. At his best, I believe he could pitch with anyone, including Grove, Koufax, or Martinez, who had the best peaks. And of course, Satch pitched for so long that he made Nolan Ryan's career seem brief by comparison, and pitched well, even into his fifties. Satch had a fastball as good as Walter Johnson's, a lethal changeup, good curve, and uncanny control. Pete Alexander is a poor man's Satchel Paige, if that makes you understand him better. If I had to pick one pitcher at his absolute peak to win one game for me tomorrow... I would probably take Pedro or Grove, but Satchel would be in the running. If I had to pick one pitcher to have for his entire career, beginning to end, I think Satch is the obvious chioce and not even Walter can top him.

              Walter Johnson. Among pitchers who actually did pitch most of their careers in the major leagues, Walter rates as the best. His contemporaries are almost unanimous about this (well, outside of New York, anyway, where, as Rob Neyer wrote, they "would have given Matty credit for the sun coming up each morning, if they thought they could get away with it", and we certainly don't have any evidence now that would make us doubt them.

              Tom Seaver. This may be my most controversial choice on my A team. I believer Seaver is the greatest post-WWII pitcher, him or Spahn, who I certainly don't want to slight. This is somewhat obscured by the fact that he pitched for some bad teams, but he was really outstanding for a real long time. While the best players haven't gotten any better over time, I think it's pretty clear that the worst ones have; that is, the average or mediocre players have gotten a lot better through the years, and that has caused the overall quality of competition to increase. If you believe this to be at least somewhat true, then Seaver seems quite deserving to be placed among the greatest pitchers ever. And it does seem to me like at least one of the greatest pitchers ever would be in the last 50 years.

              Lefty Grove. I want a lefthanded pitcher in my all-time team's rotation, and I believe Lefty Grove, again, ranks just ahead of Warren Spahn as the best lefty in history. He's Pedro Martinez, only much more durable.

              LONG RELIEVERS: Warren Spahn and Pete Alexander.

              ANY KIND OF RELIEVER YOU NEED HIM FOR: Hoyt Wilhelm. I was going to pick a short reliever (really a second closer), but Hoyt could do anything, in addition to being one of the greatest closers ever.

              CLOSER: Goose Gossage. I believe Gossage is the greatest reliever in history, all things considered.

              MANAGER: Connie Mack.
              ASST. MANAGER: Joe McCarthy.

              So that's the A Team. Now for the B team:

              CATCHER: Yogi Berra. Yogi's ability to catch competently, hit as well as any catcher ever this side of Mike Piazza, and be amazingly consistent give him the edge over Mickey Cochrane's 2/3 of a brilliant career.

              FIRST BASE: Mark McGwire. McGwire was as devestating an offensive force as has ever played the game, and despite his several off-seasons, his good seasons are so good that I think he belongs here. Rates an edge over Jimmie Foxx because he and Foxx are similar players, and I believe McGwire is a little better.

              FIRST BASE IF YOU DQ MCGWIRE FOR STEROIDS: Jimmie Foxx.

              SECOND BASE: Rogers Hornsby. Ranks behind Collins and Morgan, but no one else is even in the same galaxy as Hornsby at 2B after that, despite his poor defense.

              SHORTSTOP: Cal Ripken. Our dominating images of Ripken now are his streak, and the fact that he hung on as a mediocre player for three or four years. This obscures what a great player he really was. He was the greatest hitting shortstop ever, this side of Wagner and Rodriguez, and he was an outstanding fielder as well. We seem to tend not to believe Ripken was all that great a defensive SS, because we have Phil Rizzuto and Luis Aparicio and Ozzie Smith and Omar Vizquel in our head now as the image of a good defensive SS, a little tiny guy who darts around and dives a lot. But Ripken had excellent range because he played as deep as any shortstop ever has, and had a howitzer arm.

              THIRD BASE: George Brett. Home Run Baker here was originally going to be my choice, and he'd be a good one, but I decided to give the edge to Brett after accounting for the fact that the Baker Bowl heavily boosted Baker's power numbers. Brett did it all offensively and was adequate defensively. You could argue for him over Schmidt if you really like batting average and making contact.

              LEFT FIELD: Barry Bonds. Actually, if you take Bonds' achievements at face value and don't worry about the steroids question marks, I think Bonds actually rates ahead of Ted Williams as the greatest LF in history. Even reverting his juiced 2001-2003 years to his career averages, what you basically have is Ted Williams, plus far superior baserunning and defense to Williams'. Bonds is legitimately one of the greatest players who ever lived. I discount ed him a bit and put him behind Williams, because I am convinced that Bonds has been on steroids since about 1999. But he's a great player even without them.

              CENTER FIELD: Oscar Charleston. Charleston was a kind of combination of the best qualities of Babe Ruth and Willie Mays, if you can imagine that. He was phenomenal, by all accounts. Many observers, including a lot of respected white baseball men, including men who'd seen Ty Cobb and Babe Ruth and Willie Mays for themselves, said Charleston was the greatest player they ever saw. I may be underrating him by putting Mantle on the A team ahead of him.

              RIGHT FIELD: Henry Aaron ranks far ahead of any other RF for this spot.

              EXTRA CATCHER: Mickey Cochrane. I can't think of anything to say about him, really. He obviously was a great player before the beaning.

              EXTRA INFIELDERS: Home Run Baker and Arky Vaughan. Even acknowledging that Baker's park inflated his home run numbers, he was a genuinely great player. Third base was a glove man's position in his day, and he was an excellent glove in addition to being an offensive force. Vaughan is eerily forgotten considering how genuinely great he was. I'll take his great bat and adequate glove over Ozzie's great glove and adequate bat. Ernie Banks is very overrated.

              EXTRA OUTFIELDERS: Stan Musial and Tris Speaker. Speaker was a poor man's Ty Cobb, Musial was just, well, the man.

              UTILITY MAN: Buck Ewing. I don't want to list him as a catcher because he played all over the place, but I think he has a legitimate claim to being the greatest 19th century player ever, him or Cap Anson.

              STARTING PITCHERS:

              Cy Young. Not much to say about him than has already been said. Unbelievable durability and was a greatly feared pitcher in his day.

              Roger Clemens. I really can't stand him, but he's right with Seaver and Spahn as the greatest of the post-WWII era. I rate him a little ahead of Gibson, Marichal and Koufax because those guys pitched in the 60s, when conditions were very heavily in favor of the pitchers. I think dead-ball era pitchers as a whole are a little overrated, and 1960s pitchers are too.

              Christy Mathewson. Greg Maddux is a poor man's Christy Mathewson. One of the smartest pitchers ever (He, Walter, Spahn, Robin Roberts, Bob Gibson, and Maddux are the real standouts in history as unusually intelligent pitchers), excellent control of all kinds of pitches.

              Pedro Martinez. A right-handed Koufax; if he has a good year this year, that will be enough in my mind to rate him distinctly ahead of Koufax. Juan Marichal would be a poor man's Pedro.

              LONG RELIEVERS: Sandy Koufax and Ol' Hoss Radbourn. Ol' Hoss was the greatest pitcher of the 19th century, if you count Cy Young in the 20th; Ol' Hoss or Kid Nichols. Koufax, you all know about. I think I have him rated about right.

              SHORT RELIEVERS: Dan Quisenberry and Bruce Sutter. I just can't choose between the two. Different pitchers but had similar careers. Well, everybody's a different pitcher from Dan Quisenberry. He was one of a kind. Firpo Marberry had an awesome career. I don't know enough about him to rate him with any confidence, so I need to do some more research there.

              CLOSER: Dennis Eckersley. You all know about him. Sensational for a period of 5-6 years, and pitched effectively forever.

              MANAGER: John McGraw.
              ASST. MANAGER: Earl Weaver.

              Well, there it is. In no particular order, some guys I really cringe to leave off the team include Cap Anson, Rickey Henderson, Ozzie Smith, Jackie Robinson, Eddie Mathews, Greg Maddux, Kid Nichols, Bob Gibson (I went with Koufax over him, but it was hard), Pop Lloyd and Cool Papa Bell. Managers I wish I could get on my teams include Stengel and Whitey Herzog. But this is a crowded list, isn't it?

              Here, I'll list it in short form, in case that helps

              A TEAM

              1B - L. Gehrig
              2B - E. Collins
              3B - M. Schmidt
              SS - H. Wagner
              LF - T. Williams
              CF - W. Mays
              RF - B. Ruth
              1C - J. Gibson
              2C - J. Bench
              SP - S. Paige
              SP - W. Johnson
              SP - T. Seaver
              SP - L. Grove
              LRP - W. Spahn
              SRP - P. Alexander
              SRP - H. Wilhelm
              RA - G. Gossage
              Manager: C. Mack
              Asst. Manager: J. McCarthy
              Utility: A. Rodriguez, J. Morgan, T. Cobb, M. Mantle

              B TEAM

              1B - M. McGwire
              2B - R. Hornsby
              3B - G. Brett
              SS - C. Ripken
              LF - B. Bonds
              CF - O. Charleston
              RF - H. Aaron
              1C - Y. Berra
              2C - M. Cochrane
              SP - C. Young
              SP - R. Clemens
              SP - C. Mathewson
              SP - P. Martinez
              LRP - S. Koufax
              SRP - C. Radbourn
              SRP - D. Quisenberry
              (SRP - B. Sutter)
              RA - D. Eckersley
              Manager- J. McGraw
              Asst. Manager - E. Weaver
              Utility - A. Vaughan, F. Baker, S. Musial, T. Speaker

              No DH's.
              "Why waste four pitches when one will do?" -- Don Drysdale

              Comment


              • #8
                My team. I am prepared to be pilloried.

                A Team
                C - Hannibal
                1B - Face
                2B - B. A. Barracas
                Oh wait, that's the wrong A Team. Let me try this again

                1B - Lou Gehrig
                2B - Rogers Hornsby
                3B - George Brett
                SS - Honus Wagner
                LF - Stan Musial
                CF - Ty Cobb
                RF - Babe Ruth
                1C - Mike Piazza
                2C - Yogi Berra
                SP - Christy Mathewson
                SP - Cy Young
                SP - Walter Johnson
                SP - Grover Alexander
                LRP - Roger Clemens
                SRP - Lefty Grove
                SRP - Warren Spahn
                Closer - Dennis Eckersley
                There shall be no DH on any all time that I have anything to do with

                Manager - Joe McCarthy
                Asst. Manager - John McGraw

                Utility - Henry Aaron, Willie Mays, Ted Williams, Napoleon Lajoie, Charlie Gehringer

                B Team

                1B - Jimmie Foxx
                2B - Eddie Collins
                3B - Mike Schmidt
                SS - Cal Ripken
                LF - Barry Bonds
                CF - Tris Speaker
                RF - Mel Ott
                1C - Bill Dickey
                2C - Johnny Bench
                SP - Greg Maddux
                SP - Tom Seaver
                SP - John Clarkson
                SP - Satchel Paige
                LRP - Randy Johnson
                SRP - Steve Carlton
                SRP - Eddie Plank
                Closer - Hoyt Wilhelm

                Manager - Casey Stengel
                Asst Manager - Leo Durocher
                Util - Mickey Mantle, Frank Robinson, Oscar Charleston, Rod Carew, Wade Boggs
                Let's rid baseball of the pestilence of the DH now and forever!

                Comment


                • #9
                  A Team

                  Rotation:
                  1.Walter Johnson
                  2.Lefty Grove
                  3.Cy Young
                  4.Roger Clemens

                  Bullpen:
                  LRP: Sandy Koufax
                  SRP:Christy Matthewson
                  SRP:Joe Williams
                  Closer:Bob Feller

                  C:Josh Gibson
                  1B:Lou Gehrig
                  2B:Eddie Collins
                  SS:Honus Wagner
                  3B:Mike Schmidt
                  OF:Willie Mays
                  OF:Henry Aaron
                  OF:Ty Cobb

                  2C:Johnny Bench
                  DH: Ted Williams
                  Util: Joe Morgan, Babe Ruth, Pop Lloyd, Tris Speaker

                  Mgr: John McGraw
                  Ast. MGR: Sparky Anderson




                  B Team:

                  Rotation:
                  1.Grover Alexander
                  2.Tom Seaver
                  3.Bob Gibson
                  4.Satchel Paige

                  Pen:
                  LRP: GregMaddux
                  SRP: Kid Nichols
                  SRP: Bullet Joe Rogan
                  Closer: Addie Joss

                  C:Yogi Berra
                  1B:Jimmie Foxx
                  2B: Nap Lajoie
                  SS: Willie Wells
                  3B: George Brett
                  OF:Mel Ott
                  OF: Oscar Charleston
                  OF: Mickey Mantle

                  2C: Ivan Rodriguez
                  Util: Bill Wright, Rogers Hornaby, Buck Ewing, Tony Gwynn

                  Mgr: Connie Mack
                  Ast Mgr: Ned Hanlon
                  Last edited by Eddie Collins; 03-03-2004, 03:53 PM.
                  I share pictures from my collection of baseball photographs on twitter @PastimeClassics

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Been several days since anyone placed their teams on the site. Maybe too late and no one is interested, but here are mine. As Mr. Burgess did not say if this is based on peak or career value, I based my picks on career value. Some of these would change if I based on peak value.

                    A Team

                    Rotation:
                    1. Walter Johnson - Simply the best, IMHO.
                    2. Lefty Grove - Best of the southpaws.
                    3. Grover C. Alexander - Winning % compared to teams is the highest ever, I believe I read in a thread today. Actually made me reconsider my view on Walter, but Walter was a positive influence.
                    4. Rube Waddell - Wanted two lefties in the rotation, or this place might go to S. Paige or C. Mathewson. If not for his child-like mind and rather short career, may have put up even larger numbers. I will assign Walter to watch over him.

                    Bullpen:
                    LRP: Addie Joss - Unfortunate that his life ended so tragically. Could have put up astonishing numbers, and still had tremendous stats.
                    SRP/Utility: Martin Dihigo - Pitched marvelously, but also played every other position and was a terrific hitter, too. Led his Mexican League in 1938 in both ERA (0.90) and batting (.387).
                    Randy Johnson: I don't think too many lefties will be happy to see the Big Unit coming on in short relief - or right handed hitters, for that matter! When I need a big K, he'll be ready.
                    Closer: Hoty Wilhelm- Had a long, excellent career. After seeing my starters and middle men, batters won't know what to do with Hoyt's floater!

                    C: Yogi Berra - 3 MVP's, leader of numerous Yankee championship teams.
                    1B: Lou Gehrig - The Iron Horse is one of my two all time favorite players. Even if he wasn't, he still belongs here - tremendous power and never misses a game.
                    2B: Eddie Collins - An on base machine, with good power and an excellent glove. Speed not too shabby, either (just nudges out Little Joe).
                    3B: Mike Schmidt - Tremendous power, 10 gold gloves. What's not to like?
                    SS: Honus Wagner - I know I won't get any argument from anyone here. Arguably the best player ever.
                    LF: Ty Cobb - Hitting, speed, defense. Had to put him in.
                    CF: Willie Mays - My other favorite player of all time. He belongs here anyway. I grew up watching Willie play. You could see his love for the game and being on the field. He was a joy to see!
                    RF: Babe Ruth - Better than Cobb? Big argument going on in two or three threads, but I'll gladly have him in my starting lineup.

                    Backup Catcher: Johnny Bench - Considered him seriously as the starter, but Yogi did it for a longer time. If I was using peak value, Johnny would start.
                    DH: Ted Williams - Probably the best pure hitter to ever play. Too bad no one could get him more interested in other phases of the game, but he'll do great at DH - all he had to do is hit (and run a little). Sure would like to know what the stats would look like without the missing years!

                    Utility: Joe Morgan - Thought seriously about starting him, but Eddie squeezed him out.
                    Utility: Stan Musial - Got to get The Man on the first team. Even with his huge numbers, he is so frequently overlooked. Yeah, Sportsman's park probably helped some, but this guy could hit anywhere.
                    Utility: Buck Ewing - Played all over, and had good pop and great speed.
                    Utility: Tris Speaker - Can't believe Tris (along with Stan) as backups! Would it be great to have this team, or what.

                    Playing Manager: Al Lopez - Excellent manager. Only manager able to get a team home in front of the Yankee juggernaut of the 1950's. Pretty good catcher, too, if one of the others gets hurt.
                    Asst. Playing Manager: Fred Clarke - Won over 1600 games as a manager, and put up great offensive numbers. Don't know how much he'll play on THIS team, though (but he is the assistant manager, so who knows).


                    B Team

                    Rotation:
                    1. Christy Mathewson - Hate to put him on the B squad.
                    2. Tom Seaver - Second highest winning percentage compared to team.
                    3. Warren Spahn - Had to have the winningest lefty in history on the team somewhere.
                    4. Satchel Paige - Probably an easy 300 game winner had he been allowed to pitch in the majors. Too bad we'll never know.
                    Pen:
                    LRP: Steve Carlton - Tremendous career and stats. Unhittable slider when it was working.
                    SRP: Roger Clemens - Brings smoke and an attitude to the mound.
                    SRP: Smokey Joe Williams - Another Negro Leaguer who would have won many, many games if not for skin color.
                    Closer: Bob Feller - 300 wins and 3000 K's if not for the war? Something else we'll never know. Just edges out Goose Gossage.

                    C: Ivan Rodriguez - Not finished yet. By end of career, might work up to A team.
                    1B: Jimmie Foxx - Another feared slugger from the 30's. Put up incredible numbers, even adjusted for the era.
                    2B: Nap Lajoie - His glove brings him in ahead of Hornsby, but just barely.
                    3B: George Brett - Edges out Matthews. Maybe because I watched him play and mostly read about Matthews.
                    SS: Alex Redriguez - Yeah, the career is young yet, but the stats are very impressive, even adjusted for the era. Getting leftfielder stats from a SS, and an excellent fielding SS, too. Thanks to George, might have to move him to 3B.
                    OF: Barry Bonds - 600 HR, 500SB, ungodly OPS. I don't like him, but give the devil his due.
                    OF: Oscar Charleston - Had to get the player many consider the best Negro League player ever on one of these teams. Another tremendous player who never got to show his stuff. Branch Rickey appreciated him - Oscar helped Rickey in his decision as to which black player should be the one to break the color barrier.
                    OF: Mickey Mantle - If this little exercise were based on peak value, the Mick goes to the A team. Too many injuries.
                    DH: Hank Greenberg - I think a rather underrated player. Also lost some prime years to WWII, or probably over 400 HR.

                    Backup Catcher: Josh Gibson - Greatest HR hitter in Negro League history. Could easily play on the A team (as could any of these).

                    Utility: Bobby Grich - IMO a very underrated player. Put up very respectable numbers in a pitcher's era. Career OPS+ of 125.
                    Utility: Rogers Hornsby - Had to get the greatest RH hitter ever on here somewhere.
                    Utility: Frankie Frisch - Could play all over the infield and could hit a little,too.
                    Utility: Mel Ott - Greatest NL homerun hitter for many years. Good fielder, too.

                    Manager: Walter Alston - Only signed one year contracts, but eventually signed 23 of them.
                    Asst. Manager: Frank Selee - Excellent manager from an earlier era.
                    You see, you spend a good deal of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around all the time. J. Bouton

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      A Team
                      1B-Gehrig
                      2b-Hornsby
                      3b-Schmidt
                      SS-Wagner
                      OF-Ruth
                      OF-Musial
                      OF-Mays
                      DH-Williams
                      CA-Bench

                      SP-Johnson
                      SP-Gibson
                      SP-Grove
                      SP-Alexander
                      RP-Sutter

                      B Team
                      1B-Foxx
                      2B-Lajoie
                      3B-Mathews
                      SS-Vaughan
                      OF-Aaron
                      OF-Speaker
                      OF-Cobb
                      DH-Bonds
                      CA-Berra

                      SP-Clemens
                      SP-Seaver
                      SP-Carlton
                      SP-Mathewson
                      RP-Eckersley
                      Waner, Mantle, Bench, Nightal?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I don't care if Rube's '03, '07-08 seasons were dominant or not. There are more important things in life than being good at baseball.

                        Rube was my very first favorite player, before I hardly knew who Ty Cobb was. Rube was so pure and lovable, that I don't know how you coundn't love him. He had a heart of pure gold.

                        The only surprising thing to me is how a man who was likely a high-functionging autistic, could hold his attention on one thing long enough to master its intricacies. Pitching requires a very high degree of BB smarts. And I've read a very few folks, I think it was Mack, call the Rube a pitching genius at mixing his pitches.

                        We were very lucky to have Rube hang around as long as he did, instead of focusing on his weaknesses, such as autism and alcoholism. He did prove his mettle, when, at the premature end of his life, he stood in freezing waters up to his armpits for a full day, to save a town, whose banks had overflooded. He did that while helping the townspeople pack sandbags on their levee.

                        Now that impresses me more than a career of dominant seasons.
                        The beautiful child-clown paid for it with his life, as he contracted TB and died not long after. BB showed it's appreciation by paying for a stone marker on his grave in San Antonio. We're a generous lot, are we not?

                        Bill Burgess
                        Last edited by Bill Burgess; 07-09-2005, 06:25 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          dh ted williams - argueably best pure hitter ever
                          c yogi berra - most consistent and biggest winner
                          1b lou gehrig - ditto
                          2b joe morgan - best overall package
                          3b mike schmidt - no contest
                          ss honus wagner - arod his 1st challenger in 100 years
                          lf barry bonds - rivals ruth for #1
                          cf ty cobb - dominated deadball, would be great today
                          rf babe ruth - the greatest ever
                          c johnny bench - more talented than berra, but less consistent
                          c/ph mike piazza - hitting matters most for 3rd catcher
                          if alex rodreguiz - heading for ruth, bonds, cobb country
                          if rogers hornby - best hitting IF? or arod?
                          of willie mays - did it all and for a long time
                          of hank aaron -who better to spell the babe against tough lefties
                          sp walter johnson - very high and long lasting peak
                          sp lefty grove - even higher peak, not quite as long
                          sp cy young -pretty high peak, lasted forever
                          sp roger clemens - depending on era adj, could be #1
                          sp warren spaun - comparable to cy young for his time
                          rp goose gossage - most dominating ever
                          rp mariano rivera - best post season pitcher (not so bad reg)
                          rp sparky lyle - maybe i ought to put koufax in pen i
                          p ed walsh - personal favorite, but truely great
                          p dennis eckersly -not reall top 10, as isn't lyle, but unique in level of acheivement as starter then reliever

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Team A
                            C- Yogi Berra
                            1B- Lou Gehrig
                            2b-Eddie Collins
                            3b HR Baker - many don't know he held ALL 3B records until Pie Traynor broke some...then Brooks Robinson broke the rest
                            SS-Honus
                            LF Barry Bonds
                            CF- Ty Cobb
                            RF-Babe Ruth
                            C2-Ray Schalk #1 in fielding for a reason
                            OF The Rickey
                            OF Mays
                            OF Teddy W
                            IF Hornsby
                            IF Schmidt


                            SP-Cy Young
                            SP Walter Johnson
                            SP- Lefty Grove
                            SP - Pedro Martinez

                            RP-Pete Alexander
                            RP-Big Six
                            RP- Spahn
                            RP- Carlton
                            Rp Seaver
                            Closer- Clemens

                            THAT team will beat anyone

                            TEAM B
                            C- Bench
                            1b-Sisler
                            2b-Jackie Robinson
                            3b- Pie Traynor
                            SS- Alex Rodriguez
                            LF- Sheery Magee
                            CF- Tris Speaker
                            RF- Ed Delahanty
                            c2- Johnny Kling (best defensive C...if only he didn't love billards!)
                            Utility
                            OF -Sosa
                            OF- Musial
                            1B - Foxx
                            IF - Lazzeri
                            IF - Pie Traynor

                            SP- Addie Joss
                            SP- Sandy Koufax
                            SP- Ed Walsh
                            SP- Smokey Joe Woods

                            RP- Hoyt Wilhelm
                            RP- Henry Schmidt (don't know who he is? Well he was a poor man's Big Six but quite baseball because he didn't like living in Brooklyn)
                            RP- Greg Maddux
                            RP- Curt Schilling
                            RP- Randy Johnson

                            Closer Rube Waddell

                            Not bad...
                            Last edited by Bill Burgess; 07-09-2005, 06:29 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Man oh man what choices face me.I have been a huge baseball fan since the mid 1970's and I thrive on making lists and arguing about the greatness of my favorite players.

                              First Team All-Stars

                              catcher - Josh Gibson
                              first base - Loh Gehrig
                              second base - Nap Lajoie
                              shortstop - Honus Wagner
                              third base - Mike Schmidt
                              outfield - Ty Cobb
                              outfield - Willie Mays
                              outfield - Babe Ruth
                              dh - Ted Williams
                              utility - Jimmie Foxx
                              utility - Yogi Berra
                              utility - Barry Bonds
                              utility - Mickey Mantle
                              utility - Stan Musial

                              starting pitcher - Walter Johnson
                              starting pitcher - Christy Mathewson
                              starting pitcher - Warren Spahn
                              starting pitcher - Cy Young
                              starting pitcher - Roger Clemens

                              relief pitcher - Grover Cleveland Alexander
                              relief pitcher - Lefty Grove
                              relief pitcher - Nolan Ryan
                              relief pitcher - Sandy Koufax
                              --------------------------------------------------------------------------

                              Second Team All-Stars

                              catcher - Johnny Bench
                              first base - Oscar Charleston
                              second base - Rogers Hornsby
                              shortstop - Alex Rodriguez
                              third base - Pie Traynor
                              outfield - Al Kaline
                              outfield - Tris Speaker
                              outfield - Hank Aaron
                              dh - Joe Jackson
                              utility - Mickey Cochrane
                              utility - Joe Morgan
                              utility - Goerge Sisler
                              utility - Rickey Henderson
                              utility - Roberto Clemente

                              starting pitcher - Bob Feller
                              starting pitcher - Steve Carlton
                              starting pitcher - Whitey Ford
                              starting pitcher - Greg Maddux
                              starting pitcher - Carl Hubbell

                              relief pitcher - Randy Johnson
                              relief pitcher - Tom Seaver
                              relief pitcher - Pedro Martinez
                              relief pitcher - Miner Brown
                              --------------------------------------------------------------------------

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