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  • #61
    Originally posted by Bothrops Atrox View Post

    Then I stand corrected - we might a have a few members who do it.
    I was going to go with Tim Keefe. The original gentleman Giant.
    "No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”

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    • #62
      1. Babe Ruth
      2. Mickey Mantle
      3. Lou Gehrig
      4. Joe DiMaggio
      5. Yogi Berra
      6. Bill Dickey
      7. Mariano Rivera
      8. Derek Jeter
      9. Alex Rodriguez
      10. Joe Gordon
      Last edited by Jar of Flies; 04-15-2019, 01:44 PM. Reason: Bumped Jeter to #8 upon deeper consideration.
      Jacquelyn Eva Marchand (1983-2017)
      http://www.tezakfuneralhome.com/noti...uelyn-Marchand

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      • #63
        1. Babe Ruth
        2. Lou Gehrig
        3. Mickey Mantle
        4. Derek Jeter
        5. Whitey Ford
        6. Joe Dimaggio
        7. Bill Dickey
        8. Lefty Gomez
        9. Yogi Berra
        10. Bernie Williams
        Last edited by willshad; 04-14-2019, 09:54 PM.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by willshad View Post
          1. Babe Ruth
          2. Lou Gehrig
          3. Mickey Mantle
          4. Derek Jeter
          5. Whitey Ford
          6. Joe Dimaggio
          7. Bill Dickey
          8. Lefty Gomez
          9. Yogi Berra
          10. Bernie Williams
          ?? DiMaggio is one of the greatest players in MLB history.
          This week's Giant

          #5 in games played as a Giant with 1721 , Bill Terry

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          • #65
            Originally posted by JR Hart View Post

            ?? DiMaggio is one of the greatest players in MLB history.
            That's why he's on my list.

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            • #66
              1. Babe Ruth
              2. Mickey Mantle
              3. Lou Gehrig
              4. Joe DiMaggio
              5. Yogi Berra
              6. Derek Jeter
              7. Bill Dickey
              8. Charlie Keller
              9. Mariano Rivera
              10. Graig Nettles

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              • #67
                Ford vs Dimaggio for number five spot is pretty much a tossup for me. I feel that Ford is basically the pitcher version of Joe, as they both had amazingly successful, but kind of short careers hampered by missing war seasons but with great rate stats and team success. They both retired young and were done by age 36, so the short careers aren't totally due to the war. Dimaggio probably 20-25 among position players, while Ford 15-20 among pitchers.

                Ford was never anything close to bad or even mediocre, which is very impressive to me given how starters are usually up and down. He was 9-1, 153 ERA+ as a rookie at age 21, and his last two years, his only ones with a losing record, he still had a 151 ERA+. One of the most underrated players ever IMO.

                It's funny that people seem to think that pitchers are only great because they were on great teams, while position players MAKE the team great. Having an ace pitcher might be the single most important thing to a great team.
                Last edited by willshad; 04-15-2019, 10:38 AM.

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                • #68
                  When ranking DiMaggio, I think it's useful to examine where Mantle is. People who actually saw DiMaggio and Mantle play almost always say that DiMaggio was better. I haven't heard or read too many of these people saying that Mantle was better.

                  And for me, contemporary opinion means just as much as the numbers you'll find on Baseball-Reference (i.e. "The Eye Test"). The people who actually watched them are more fit to judge them.

                  That's why I believe DiMaggio should either be:

                  A). Ahead of Mantle
                  B). Directly Behind Mantle.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by redban View Post
                    When ranking DiMaggio, I think it's useful to examine where Mantle is. People who actually saw DiMaggio and Mantle play almost always say that DiMaggio was better. I haven't heard or read too many of these people saying that Mantle was better.

                    And for me, contemporary opinion means just as much as the numbers you'll find on Baseball-Reference (i.e. "The Eye Test"). The people who actually watched them are more fit to judge them.

                    That's why I believe DiMaggio should either be:

                    A). Ahead of Mantle
                    B). Directly Behind Mantle.
                    In things like this, it's not usually so much who was 'better' as who had the better career. Someone who watched baseball up until the 1986 season and then stopped could say that Dwight Gooden was the best pitcher he ever saw, and he wouldn't be wrong. Guys like Dimaggio and Koufax were certainly great, but to not dock them for short careers is not fair to other guys, who were equally as good but for longer periods of time.

                    Comparing Dimaggio to Mantle also is not easy because 1) they played in vastly different scoring environments and 2) They were totally different types of hitters. I have always favored the high RBI, high batting average guys, but one can only ponder how many RBI Mantle might have gotten playing in the 1930s.

                    I would agree that Dimaggio was better, but no doubt Mantle had the better career.
                    Last edited by willshad; 04-15-2019, 11:12 AM.

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                    • #70
                      Perhaps a project for another day down the line would be every franchise's all-time starting 9. Would make for some really tough decisions for certain teams... who's the better Yankee CFer, as mentioned above? Braves SP: Maddux or Spahn? Orioles 3B: Ripken or Robinson? (I'd add Red Sox LFers but Ted Williams is a top-5 all-time MLB player while Yaz is relatively far down that list alone.)

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                      • #71
                        Ruth
                        Mantle
                        Gehrig
                        DiMaggio
                        Berra
                        Rivera
                        Ford
                        Ruffing
                        Randolph
                        Cano (above Rodriguez - similar WAR on a per-year basis, and never an albatross)
                        Found in a fortune cookie On Thursday, August 18th, 2005: "Hard words break no bones, Kind words butter no parsnips."

                        1955 1959 1963 1965 1981 1988 2017?

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                        • #72
                          1. Babe Ruth
                          2. Lou Gehrig
                          3. Mickey Mantle
                          4. Joe DiMaggio
                          5. Whitey Ford
                          6. Yogi Berra
                          7. Bill Dickey
                          8. Derek Jeter
                          9. Red Ruffing
                          10. Mariano Rivera

                          The number 10 spot was tough, but in the end I couldn't make an argument for Lazzeri, Combs or any of the other pitchers over Rivera.

                          The number two battle is also interesting amongst all our voters here (personally I think it is an easy choice). I think Lou is going to grab number two, because I think the Mantle/DiMaggio decision is going to split voters and Lou will reap the rewards.

                          I noticed a few people leaving off Ford. Are seven years of Joe Gordon or the career of Graig Nettles really better than the entirety of Whitey's career? Whitey Ford was 236-106, with a 133 ERA+ in 3170 innings, plus he lost two years to a war. His won/loss percentage is the second greatest of all time (to Al Spalding who pitched in the 1870's in a very young game). His ERA+ is about 15th of all time relative to full time starters (28th overall). I literally do not know how much people could expect of him. This stuns me, and I didn't think this site could stun me anymore.

                          So I guess...congratulations....


                          Originally posted by GiambiJuice View Post

                          I wanted to give Keller his due. Ford will make the top 10 without my help. I think Keller is quite underrated. He had a tremendous peak and I am a 'peak guy. 164 OPS+ for a six year stretch, 152 for his career. He lost time to WW2 during his prime.

                          For some perspective:

                          Charlie Keller: 28.4 WAA in 1066 G (4.3 per 162)
                          Derek Jeter: 31.0 WAA in 2747 G (1.8 per 162)


                          A bit contrived, but just for fun...

                          Left Fielders (min 4000 PA and min 50% of games played in LF) with career .410 OBP / .510 SLG:

                          1 Barry Bonds
                          2 Ted Williams
                          3 Charlie Keller
                          I appreciate your explanation GJ.
                          Last edited by Toledo Inquisition; 04-15-2019, 03:10 PM.
                          On one hand, the White Sox had to forfeit a game. On the other hand, disco was finally killed off. So overall, it was a win.

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZaXq338HN4


                          Play the Who am I? game in trivia and you can make this signature line yours for 3 days (baseball signatures only!)

                          Go here for a link to all player links! http://www.baseball-fever.com/forum/...player-threads

                          Go here for all your 1920's/1930's OF info

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by pedrosrotatorcuff View Post
                            Perhaps a project for another day down the line would be every franchise's all-time starting 9. Would make for some really tough decisions for certain teams... who's the better Yankee CFer, as mentioned above? Braves SP: Maddux or Spahn? Orioles 3B: Ripken or Robinson? (I'd add Red Sox LFers but Ted Williams is a top-5 all-time MLB player while Yaz is relatively far down that list alone.)
                            The big one for me (and a cause of considerable controversy here) is Waner vs. Clemente in RF.

                            I STILL insist it's Waner (but excruciatingly close).

                            There's also, on the Dodgers, Campanella vs. Piazza (I'll take Piazza) and Hodges vs. Garvey (that one I'm still undecided on). I'm hoping Bellinger ends up having a long career there that ends that argument.
                            Found in a fortune cookie On Thursday, August 18th, 2005: "Hard words break no bones, Kind words butter no parsnips."

                            1955 1959 1963 1965 1981 1988 2017?

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              1- Babe Ruth
                              2- Mickey Mantle
                              3- Lou Gehrig
                              4- Joe DiMaggio
                              5- Yogi Berra
                              6- Mariano Rivera
                              7- Bill Dickey
                              8- Derek Jeter
                              9- Whitey Ford
                              10- Alex Rodriguez
                              Nos Amours! ... 1969-2004

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by toomanyhatz View Post

                                The big one for me (and a cause of considerable controversy here) is Waner vs. Clemente in RF.

                                I STILL insist it's Waner (but excruciatingly close).

                                There's also, on the Dodgers, Campanella vs. Piazza (I'll take Piazza) and Hodges vs. Garvey (that one I'm still undecided on). I'm hoping Bellinger ends up having a long career there that ends that argument.
                                I agree with your picks. Gotta go with Garv for Dodgers first baseman.

                                Best Yankee second baseman is an interesting debate. I can see a case for Lazzeri, Gordon, Cano, or maybe even Randolph.

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