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A little change I'd like to see baseball-reference.com make.

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  • A little change I'd like to see baseball-reference.com make.

    Why doesn't baseball-reference.com include the post-season when it comes to listing a player's final game of their career?
    ie: Al Oliver was born on October 14, 1946 and he is listed as playing his final game on October 5, 1985 - making his age: 38 years and 356 days, but that was not really his last game since his Toronto Blue Jays team went to the playoffs. Oliver's final game was actually played on October 16, 1985 when he was 39 years and 2 days old. Also you have baseball;l-reference.com listing Dale Mitchell's final game of his career as his final regular season game of 1956, when actually his final game was played for the Brooklyn Dodgers in the 1956 World Series.
    This may be splitting hairs, but it's a change I'd still like baseball-reference .com to make. Compared to all of the research that has been done in recent years on box scores and play-by-play by the folks at retrosheet.com/boxesetc (The Directory Of Major League Years) to give the fan as complete a record as possible, the amount of work required to update the category of players' final game to include Playoffs and World Series (in other words All Post Season Games) would be minor by comparison.

  • #2
    Attention website administrators: This was meant to have been posted in the "History Of The Game" category - not in Hall Of Fame Talk. Please transfer it to "The History of the Game" category.

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    • #3
      Yeah I think it's a bit splitting hairs. You are technically correct, though, so it's a good suggestion.
      46 wins to match last year's total

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      • #4
        I've never understood why post-season stats aren't included in a player's totals? I can understand segregating them from season totals to keep a level playing field, but they did play these games and accrue these stats, so why not include them? For example, doing this would lift Lou Gehrig's HR total to 503, which seems only fair.

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        • #5
          It would put Fred McGriff over 500, (and Kaline over 400), as well.
          3 6 10 21 29 31 35 41 42 44 47

          "All of which makes perfect sense on paper, unless you have actually at any time in your life watched baseball being played." - The Commissioner

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          • #6
            Originally posted by walter sobchak View Post
            I've never understood why post-season stats aren't included in a player's totals? I can understand segregating them from season totals to keep a level playing field, but they did play these games and accrue these stats, so why not include them? For example, doing this would lift Lou Gehrig's HR total to 503, which seems only fair.
            Originally, the World Series was meant to be an exhibition game of sorts, not much different than what the All Star game eventually became. Do we then add AS game stats to players' totals? What about pre season? Heck, why not minor league stats too.

            One is free to add whatever stats they like to any player. Most of us use post seasons numbers anyway in evaluating as player, albeit to a much lesser degree than regular season numbers (as well we should). I personally don't count them any more than I do All Star game stats, as I feel they are both under the category of 'exhibition' type of games. Usually the sample size is too small to be of any meaning anyway. I tend to give players a little boost if they have good post season stats, but don't really penalize anyone if they do poorly in a fifty at bat sample size.
            Last edited by willshad; 05-17-2019, 11:16 PM.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by willshad View Post

              Originally, the World Series was meant to be an exhibition game of sorts, not much different than what the All Star game eventually became. Do we then add AS game stats to players' totals? What about pre season? Heck, why not minor league stats too.

              One is free to add whatever stats they like to any player. Most of us use post seasons numbers anyway in evaluating as player, albeit to a much lesser degree than regular season numbers (as well we should). I personally don't count them any more than I do All Star game stats, as I feel they are both under the category of 'exhibition' type of games. Usually the sample size is too small to be of any meaning anyway. I tend to give players a little boost if they have good post season stats, but don't really penalize anyone if they do poorly in a fifty at bat sample size.
              I was hoping for sensible replies. Guess I'm on the wrong site after all.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by walter sobchak View Post
                I've never understood why post-season stats aren't included in a player's totals? I can understand segregating them from season totals to keep a level playing field, but they did play these games and accrue these stats, so why not include them? For example, doing this would lift Lou Gehrig's HR total to 503, which seems only fair.
                You yourself answered your question. People don’t include postseason stats in a player’s overall totals because it’s better to have a level playing field. Including postseason, Jeter has 3,665 hits over Stan Muscials 3,652. But that’s because Jeter happened to play on a dynasty Yankees for 20 years and got 158 postseason games (vs Musial’s 23 postseason games). Jeter, thus, enjoyed a longer season than his peers by virtue of his team.

                In general, people don’t want to reward players for luck and circumstance. We want to reward players for skill and talent.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Los Bravos View Post
                  It would put Fred McGriff over 500, (and Kaline over 400), as well.
                  Sam Rice over 3,000 hits.
                  Barry Bonds over 2,000 RBI
                  Alex Rodriguez over 700 HR
                  My top 10 players:

                  1. Babe Ruth
                  2. Barry Bonds
                  3. Ty Cobb
                  4. Ted Williams
                  5. Willie Mays
                  6. Alex Rodriguez
                  7. Hank Aaron
                  8. Honus Wagner
                  9. Lou Gehrig
                  10. Mickey Mantle

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                  • #10
                    It would raise Joe Carter and Andres Galarraga to the 400 home run level with Carter hitting 6 post-season home runs in addition to 396 regular season home runs, it would raise his total to 402 HR.....Galarraga hit just one post-season home run, but it would raise his total career HRs to an even 400. This would not help Dale Murphy, however, who hit 398 regular season home runs, but who had zero home runs in the post-season.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by walter sobchak View Post

                      I was hoping for sensible replies. Guess I'm on the wrong site after all.
                      You got a sensible reply. He took it a little too far with what you highlighted, but the logic is sound. Not everyone places the same weight on post-season stats and there is a disparity because of the teams that are involved in said post-seasons.
                      46 wins to match last year's total

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by philliesfiend55 View Post
                        It would raise Joe Carter and Andres Galarraga to the 400 home run level with Carter hitting 6 post-season home runs in addition to 396 regular season home runs, it would raise his total to 402 HR.....Galarraga hit just one post-season home run, but it would raise his total career HRs to an even 400. This would not help Dale Murphy, however, who hit 398 regular season home runs, but who had zero home runs in the post-season.
                        Dale had one post-season series in his career. So did Phil Niekro.
                        46 wins to match last year's total

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by redban View Post

                          You yourself answered your question. People don’t include postseason stats in a player’s overall totals because it’s better to have a level playing field. Including postseason, Jeter has 3,665 hits over Stan Muscials 3,652. But that’s because Jeter happened to play on a dynasty Yankees for 20 years and got 158 postseason games (vs Musial’s 23 postseason games). Jeter, thus, enjoyed a longer season than his peers by virtue of his team.

                          In general, people don’t want to reward players for luck and circumstance. We want to reward players for skill and talent.
                          That is the biggest reason.
                          Here s another reason.....................why include post season in with regular season, leave it alone, as they have done for decades.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by walter sobchak View Post
                            I've never understood why post-season stats aren't included in a player's totals? I can understand segregating them from season totals to keep a level playing field, but they did play these games and accrue these stats, so why not include them? For example, doing this would lift Lou Gehrig's HR total to 503, which seems only fair.
                            Simple, because it is just that post season. Why would they include post season numbers in with regular season.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by redban View Post

                              You yourself answered your question. People don’t include postseason stats in a player’s overall totals because it’s better to have a level playing field. Including postseason, Jeter has 3,665 hits over Stan Muscials 3,652. But that’s because Jeter happened to play on a dynasty Yankees for 20 years and got 158 postseason games (vs Musial’s 23 postseason games). Jeter, thus, enjoyed a longer season than his peers by virtue of his team.

                              In general, people don’t want to reward players for luck and circumstance. We want to reward players for skill and talent.
                              Even more extreme, Ted Williams 7 post season games...............Jeter has almost a whole season in post season games.

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