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All Whites team - post 1947

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  • #76
    Originally posted by massa1177 View Post

    David Price?
    I totally forgot about Price! Good catch.
    Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

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    • #77
      Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules View Post

      I totally forgot about Price! Good catch.
      Felix Hernandez too. He's been irrelevant for a while but he was a great pitcher for a few years.
      My top 10 players:

      1. Babe Ruth
      2. Barry Bonds
      3. Ty Cobb
      4. Ted Williams
      5. Willie Mays
      6. Alex Rodriguez
      7. Hank Aaron
      8. Honus Wagner
      9. Lou Gehrig
      10. Mickey Mantle

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by Bothrops Atrox View Post



        Unless you think I am a liar - I heard TONS of people calling Biggio a FHOFer as far back as the late 90's.

        I also don't remember people calling Delgado a FHOFer. Maybe it was happening on the east coast.

        And yes - Kent would absolutely be talked about as one of the worst 3,000 hit guys if he hung on to get it. Most 3,000 hit guys are no-brainers who are well past borderline.

        Like I said - we must have been looking at and listening to VERY different things.
        In his years with the Mets announcers would refer to him as a guy who sneaks up on you as an HoF candidate with his stats while he was overshadowed in the stacked A.L. East. Never heard to him referred to as a future HoFer. I probably watched nearly all the games he played against the Phillies from '05-08. By the time he got to the Mets his average was too low to get serious MVP consideration but he was still huge on those teams. He was overshadowed by Howard's historic peak during this time and Pujols was in the middle of his epic ten year stretch so there were no ASG's or SS's to be had in the N.L. I'd support him for the HoF. He always struck me as a serious, competitive guy and a winning ball player who was stuck behind Boston and New York at the height of the rivals spending sprees.

        "No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”

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        • #79
          Originally posted by bluesky5 View Post

          In his years with the Mets announcers would refer to him as a guy who sneaks up on you as an HoF candidate with his stats while he was overshadowed in the stacked A.L. East. Never heard to him referred to as a future HoFer. I probably watched nearly all the games he played against the Phillies from '05-08. By the time he got to the Mets his average was too low to get serious MVP consideration but he was still huge on those teams. He was overshadowed by Howard's historic peak during this time and Pujols was in the middle of his epic ten year stretch so there were no ASG's or SS's to be had in the N.L. I'd support him for the HoF. He always struck me as a serious, competitive guy and a winning ball player who was stuck behind Boston and New York at the height of the rivals spending sprees.

          I've said it before, I'll say it again. Delgado is so underrated.

          David Ortiz .286/.380/.552, did not play in the field, failed a drug test
          Delgado .280/.383/.546, played in the field, did not fail a drug test
          Last edited by GiambiJuice; 08-16-2019, 09:54 AM.
          My top 10 players:

          1. Babe Ruth
          2. Barry Bonds
          3. Ty Cobb
          4. Ted Williams
          5. Willie Mays
          6. Alex Rodriguez
          7. Hank Aaron
          8. Honus Wagner
          9. Lou Gehrig
          10. Mickey Mantle

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by GiambiJuice View Post


            I've said it before, I'll say it again. Delgado is so underrated.

            David Ortiz .286/.380/.552, did not play in the field, failed a drug test
            Delgado .280/.383/.546, played in the field, did not fail a drug test
            Sure. but were people WHEN ACTIVE calling him a FHOFer? Moreso than Craig Biggio?

            I agree that Delgado was equal to or better than Ortiz.
            1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

            1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

            1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


            The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
            The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

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            • #81
              Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules View Post
              Not to get too racial but the "white team" would have an insane 5 man starting staff.

              Roger Clemens
              Greg Maddux
              Randy Johnson,
              Clayton Kershaw
              Pick one (Roy Halladay, Zack Grienke, Tom Glavine, Mike Mussina, Max Scherzer, Justin Verlander)

              The "non-white" team wouldn't have anywhere near this type of pitching depth IMO. After Pedro Martinez is there another all time great "non-white" pitcher born since 1947? Juan Marichal and Bob Gibson were both born in the mid 1930's. Fergie Jenkins was born in 1942.

              Pedro Martinez
              C.C. Sabathia
              Vida Blue
              Johann Santana
              Dwight Gooden?

              The white pitching staff completely blows away the non-white pitching staff.
              Not to get "racial" either but starting pitchers in the MLB is one of the few positions in professional sports where White Americans have never given up "dominance." You can probably say the same of the QB position in the NFL too. This is in contrast to the NBA and certain skill positions in the NFL where White Americans don't even compete anymore.

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by massa1177 View Post

                Not to get "racial" either but starting pitchers in the MLB is one of the few positions in professional sports where White Americans have never given up "dominance." You can probably say the same of the QB position in the NFL too. This is in contrast to the NBA and certain skill positions in the NFL where White Americans don't even compete anymore.
                I've always wondered why. It seems white basketball players are now restricted to big men or point guards. What happened to guys like Bob Pettit, Dolph Schayes,Jerry West, Pistol Pete, Rick Berry, Dave Cowens, John Havlicek, Larry Bird, Bobby Jones, Kevin McHale?
                Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by Bothrops Atrox View Post

                  Sure. but were people WHEN ACTIVE calling him a FHOFer? Moreso than Craig Biggio?

                  I agree that Delgado was equal to or better than Ortiz.
                  People did call Delgado a strong HOF candidate when he was active, a lot moreso than Biggio pre-3000th hit. Delgado was the face of a franchise; people bought tickets to see him; he got a lot of attention during the 2004 offseason; was part of the big trade in 2005.

                  Here's the thread, with posts from people commenting on his HOF candidancy while he was active. The general consensus is "close," "right on the borderline," "yes," or "just just just below the mark":

                  https://www.baseball-fever.com/forum...edition/page12


                  Before 3000 hits, Biggio was never seen as a HOF talent, never considered an all-time great, people didn't buy tickets to see him, people didn't leave the ballpark thinking they saw a great player when he watched him. Biggio made the HOF strictly because the writers were protecting the 3000 hit milestone. Just say that you like Biggio or you're an Astros fan instead of claiming that he regarded as the NL Roberto Alomar.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by redban View Post

                    People did call Delgado a strong HOF candidate when he was active, a lot moreso than Biggio pre-3000th hit. Delgado was the face of a franchise; people bought tickets to see him; he got a lot of attention during the 2004 offseason; was part of the big trade in 2005.

                    Here's the thread, with posts from people commenting on his HOF candidancy while he was active. The general consensus is "close," "right on the borderline," "yes," or "just just just below the mark":

                    https://www.baseball-fever.com/forum...edition/page12


                    Before 3000 hits, Biggio was never seen as a HOF talent, never considered an all-time great, people didn't buy tickets to see him, people didn't leave the ballpark thinking they saw a great player when he watched him. Biggio made the HOF strictly because the writers were protecting the 3000 hit milestone. Just say that you like Biggio or you're an Astros fan instead of claiming that he regarded as the NL Roberto Alomar.
                    I hated the Astros and was no fan of Biggio. They were the Birds biggest rival BY FAR at the time. Nice job with your fundamental attribution errors, though. Why don't you run a poll about what we remember re: Delgado, Biggio, and Kent and who was more widely respected while active.

                    BTW - I am talking about the media and Delgado - not what the people in our tiny, irrelevant corner think about him.
                    Last edited by Bothrops Atrox; 08-16-2019, 12:25 PM.
                    1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

                    1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

                    1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


                    The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
                    The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Everyone...

                      Am I losing my mind? Am I the only one that remembers Craig Biggio being referred to as a FHOF even before it was absolutely evident he would reach 3,000 hits? Have I finally lost it?

                      Am I the only one that did NOT remember a lot of Kent HOF hype until it was apparent that he would grab the 2B HR crown?

                      1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

                      1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

                      1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


                      The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
                      The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Bothrops Atrox View Post
                        Everyone...

                        Am I losing my mind? Am I the only one that remembers Craig Biggio being referred to as a FHOF even before it was absolutely evident he would reach 3,000 hits? Have I finally lost it?

                        Am I the only one that did NOT remember a lot of Kent HOF hype until it was apparent that he would grab the 2B HR crown?
                        No, you're not the only one who remembers Biggio being referred to as a HOF candidate years before he retired. There's a lot of misinformation in this thread- Biggio actually probably had even more positive HOF talk before his last few seasons, when he was declining and not nearly the player he had been. And yes, he and Alomar were frequently compared, and Biggio came out ahead as often as not. In my opinion Biggio still would have (deservingly) been elected to the HOF if he had retired 2 years earlier and not reached 3000 hits

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by BigRon View Post

                          No, you're not the only one who remembers Biggio being referred to as a HOF candidate years before he retired. There's a lot of misinformation in this thread- Biggio actually probably had even more positive HOF talk before his last few seasons, when he was declining and not nearly the player he had been. And yes, he and Alomar were frequently compared, and Biggio came out ahead as often as not. In my opinion Biggio still would have (deservingly) been elected to the HOF if he had retired 2 years earlier and not reached 3000 hits
                          Ugh, this is getting worse ... Biggio was considered better than Alomar, yeah.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by redban View Post

                            Ugh, this is getting worse ... Biggio was considered better than Alomar, yeah.
                            I don't buy it either. Alomar was considered the better player of the two by the vast majority of people.
                            My top 10 players:

                            1. Babe Ruth
                            2. Barry Bonds
                            3. Ty Cobb
                            4. Ted Williams
                            5. Willie Mays
                            6. Alex Rodriguez
                            7. Hank Aaron
                            8. Honus Wagner
                            9. Lou Gehrig
                            10. Mickey Mantle

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Bothrops Atrox View Post
                              Everyone...

                              Am I losing my mind? Am I the only one that remembers Craig Biggio being referred to as a FHOF even before it was absolutely evident he would reach 3,000 hits? Have I finally lost it?

                              Am I the only one that did NOT remember a lot of Kent HOF hype until it was apparent that he would grab the 2B HR crown?
                              I remember many times people speaking about the future HOF B&B combination in the early 2000's, well before the Sox played Houston in the 2005 World Series. I don't remember any San Francisco Kent HOF talk, I think I started hearing about Kent and the HOF in his last year of Houston/first year in LA - definitely not with SF.

                              These were national or local (non-SF) feeds, so SF media could have been different.
                              I knew Casey before and after he was a genius.-Warren Spahn, who was rejected by Stengel early in his career when Casey managed the Braves, then played for Casey with the Mets.
                              Play the Who am I? game in trivia and you can make this signature line yours for 3 days (baseball signatures only!)

                              Go here for a link to all player links! http://www.baseball-fever.com/forum/...player-threads

                              Go here for all your 1920's/1930's OF info

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                              • #90
                                Originally posted by GiambiJuice View Post

                                I don't buy it either. Alomar was considered the better player of the two by the vast majority of people.
                                That was my recollection too. But not at the expense of saying Biggio was NOT a HOFer. Alomar was the bigger star when active, though.

                                Er..I mean...Go Biggio cuz I luv u!
                                1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

                                1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

                                1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


                                The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
                                The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

                                Comment

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