Best Player to Never Win a Title, by Franchise

[Chadwick]

Will Leitch had this column at MLB.com today.

Per Leitch, the list examines "the best player in franchise history for every team who never ended up getting a World Series title. We’re not talking about the best player to only briefly play for that franchise: We mean player who had the best career with that particular team who never won a title anywhere, with that team or elsewhere."

If you just want the list, without reading the entire article, see below.


Blue Jays – Roy Halladay
Orioles – George Sisler
Rays – Evan Longoria
Red Sox – Ted Williams
Yankees – Don Mattingly


Indians – Nap Lajoie
Royals – Amos Otis
Tigers – Ty Cobb
Twins – Rod Carew
White Sox – Luke Appling


Angels – Mike Trout
Astros – Jeff Bagwell
A’s – Eric Chavez
Mariners – Ken Griffey Jr.
Rangers – Adrian Beltre


Braves – Phil Niekro
Marlins – Giancarlo Stanton
Mets – David Wright
Nationals – Ryan Zimmerman
Phillies – Robin Roberts


Brewers – Robin Yount
Cardinals – Ted Simmons
Cubs – Ernie Banks
Pirates – Barry Bonds
Reds – Joey Votto


Diamondbacks – Paul Goldschmidt
Dodgers – Clayton Kershaw
Giants – Barry Bonds
Padres – Tony Gwynn
Rockies – Todd Helton

[SavoyBG]

Will Leitch had this column at MLB.com today.

Per Leitch, the list examines "the best player in franchise history for every team who never ended up getting a World Series title. We’re not talking about the best player to only briefly play for that franchise: We mean player who had the best career with that particular team who never won a title anywhere, with that team or elsewhere."

Nationals – Ryan Zimmerman

You think he's better than Dawson and Larry Walker?

[SavoyBG]

I might go with Vaughan for the Pirates and Bonds just for the Giants.

[SavoyBG]

Mets or Dodgers - - Piazza

Maybe Killebrew over Carew for the Twins.

[SavoyBG]

How about the all time team of non winners.

C - Piazza
1B - McCovey / Bagwell
2B - Lajoie
SS - Vaughan
3B - Beltre
LF - Bonds
CF - Griffey
RF - Cobb
DH - Ted
P - G. Perry
P - Marichal
P - Kershaw

[Chadwick]

You think he's better than Dawson and Larry Walker?

I do not, but it's not my list.

You suggest some outstanding substitutions.

Mets - Mike Piazza
Nationals - Andre Dawson
Pirates - Arky Vaughan

Personally, I would keep Carew > Killebrew, but would add the following:

A's - Bob Johnson
Rockies - Larry Walker
Royals - Zack Greinke (as of this moment)
Yankees - Mike Mussina

[JessePopHaines16]

Too bad Simmons wasnt on the 82 cards. A trio of Simmons, Ozzie, and McGee in the 80s sounds great.

[Chadwick]

Too bad Simmons wasnt on the 82 cards. A trio of Simmons, Ozzie, and McGee in the 80s sounds great.

Had Simmons remained with St. Louis, he could have been the starting first baseman in the 1985 and 1987 World Series for them. That would keep Jack Clark (in 1985 and 1987) in right field, presumably. It's hard to say how much a difference this would have made, either way, to the offenses of those teams (other than Simmons being much slower on the bases than Andy Van Slyke and Curt Ford) during those latter two pennants. It would, however, have kept Simmons with one team, identifying him better as a Cardinals icon and removing the stigma of being associated with the also-ran Cards of the 1970s. Who's to say if things would have turned out differently for St. Louis, but I'd wager Simmons would have found somewhat more favorable treatment from the voters at least.

[Cougar]

You think he's better than Dawson and Larry Walker?

The author said in the piece that if he included the Expos years of the franchise, Dawson would be the guy. He was just looking at the DC era.

Walker would have been excluded by the author's criteria that the player had to have played a meaningful part of his career with the team. That's subjective...Walker was a good player in Montreal for several seasons...but it's indisputable that Walker will primarily be remembered by history as a Rockie.

[Bothrops Atrox]

Prime Porter and prime Tony Pena were not too far off in terms of overall value than old-Simmons. 1985 and 1987 Simmons would not have helped the Cardinals much at all. Simmons would have to have done better than NLCS AND WS MVP to have done better than Porter in 1982.

[JR Hart]

Had Simmons remained with St. Louis, he could have been the starting first baseman in the 1985 and 1987 World Series for them. That would keep Jack Clark (in 1985 and 1987) in right field, presumably. It's hard to say how much a difference this would have made, either way, to the offenses of those teams (other than Simmons being much slower on the bases than Andy Van Slyke and Curt Ford) during those latter two pennants. It would, however, have kept Simmons with one team, identifying him better as a Cardinals icon and removing the stigma of being associated with the also-ran Cards of the 1970s. Who's to say if things would have turned out differently for St. Louis, but I'd wager Simmons would have found somewhat more favorable treatment from the voters at least.

With all of the trades that Cardinals made, maybe they don't win with Simmons. The Simmons trade was a domino with a lot of moves. The team would have been vastly different.

[GiambiJuice]

I do not, but it's not my list.

You suggest some outstanding substitutions.

Mets - Mike Piazza
Nationals - Andre Dawson
Pirates - Arky Vaughan

Personally, I would keep Carew > Killebrew, but would add the following:

A's - Bob Johnson
Rockies - Larry Walker
Royals - Zack Greinke (as of this moment)
Yankees - Mike Mussina

Walker had the better career overall but Helton had the better career with the franchise. He is the Rockies all-time leader in almost every category.

[Chadwick]

Walker had the better career overall but Helton had the better career with the franchise. He is the Rockies all-time leader in almost every category.

I look at this as the best player taking primacy over which franchise to put him with, much as we generally understand player rankings by position. Rod Carew is arguably the 5th or 6th greatest second baseman ever, but that's looking at his entire career, not just his time at second base. I took the same approach to this list. Whether the author did, or others do,....I'm not going to argue with that. Thought that explaining my approach might prove useful in explaining my selections, though.

Walker > Helton
Helton's COL career > Walker's COL career

Perhaps it's splitting hairs, but I gave precedence to the first of the above two assertions. YMMV

[GiambiJuice]

I look at this as the best player taking primacy over which franchise to put him with, much as we generally understand player rankings by position. Rod Carew is arguably the 5th or 6th greatest second baseman ever, but that's looking at his entire career, not just his time at second base. I took the same approach to this list. Whether the author did, or others do,....I'm not going to argue with that. Thought that explaining my approach might prove useful in explaining my selections, though.

Walker > Helton
Helton's COL career > Walker's COL career

Perhaps it's splitting hairs, but I gave precedence to the first of the above two assertions. YMMV

I was just going off what you wrote in the original post:

"We’re not talking about the best player to only briefly play for that franchise: We mean player who had the best career with that particular team who never won a title anywhere, with that team or elsewhere."

[JessePopHaines16]

If the cards would have brought in Porter while keeping Simmons it would have been a mess with Simmons having to move to first and I guess Hernandez moving to the outfield.?

But if he didnt bring in Porter and kept Simmons at his natural position. Would the Cards have been better from 82-85 (Simmons last full seasons)?