Help Needed on Early Ballplayers

[Chadwick]

Friends,

I am undertaking an off-site project where I need to develop a fairly liberal definition of the greatest players (at each position) of the game's first half century or so. I'm looking for MLB players only (including the National Association) and the only firm cut-off is that the player must have retired before 1931.

Please help me by suggesting names that belong on these lists. I'm sure I've missed a few, at the very least.

Here's what I've got so far.

Pitchers
Babe Adams
Pete Alexander
Chief Bender
Tommy Bond
Mordecai Brown
Charlie Buffinton
Bob Caruthers
John Clarkson
Eddie Cicotte
Wilbur Cooper
Stan Coveleski
Pud Galvin
Clark Griffith
Noodles Hahn
Walter Johnson
Addie Joss
Tim Keefe
Christy Mathewson
Carl Mays
Joe McGinnity
Jim McCormick
Tony Mullane
Kid Nichols
Eddie Plank
Charley Radbourn
Nap Rucker
Amos Rusie
Urban Shocker
Al Spalding
Rube Waddell
Ed Walsh
Mickey Welch
Vic Willis
Cy Young

Catchers
Charlie Bennett
Roger Bresnahan
Jack Clements
Buck Ewing
Johnny Kling
Cal McVey
Deacon White

First Basemen
Cap Anson
Jake Beckley
Dan Brouthers
Frank Chance
Roger Connor
Jake Daubert
Jack Fournier
Ed Konetchy
George Sisler
Joe Start
Fred Tenney

Second Basemen
Ross Barnes
Cupid Childs
Eddie Collins
Larry Doyle
Fred Dunlap
Johnny Evers
Nap Lajoie
Bid McPhee
Del Pratt
Hardy Richardson

Third Basemen
Frank Baker
Jimmy Collins
Lave Cross
Larry Gardner
Heinie Groh
Bill Joyce
Denny Lyons
John McGraw
Billy Nash
Ezra Sutton
Ned Williamson

Shortstops
Dave Bancroft
Bill Dahlen
George Davis
Art Fletcher
Jack Glasscock
Hughie Jennings
Herman Long
Joe Tinker
Honus Wagner
Bobby Wallace
John Ward
George Wright

Left Fielders
Jesse Burkett
Fred Clarke
Ed Delahanty
Charley Jones
Joe Kelley
Sherry Magee
Jim O’Rourke
Jimmy Sheckard
Harry Stovey
Bobby Veach
Zack Wheat

Center Fielders
Pete Browning
Max Carey
Ty Cobb
Hugh Duffy
George Gore
Billy Hamilton
Paul Hines
Tommy Leach
Jimmy Ryan
Tris Speaker
George Van Haltren

Right Fielders
Gavvy Cravath
Sam Crawford
Elmer Flick
Harry Hooper
Joe Jackson
Willie Keeler
King Kelly
Sam Thompson
Mike Tiernan
Ross Youngs

Much appreciated.

[layson27]

Is this advanced stats based only, or will contemporary opinion be weighed in as well?

[PVNICK]

That's a pretty comprehensive list. I always link Hippo Vaughn in my mind with Wilbur Cooper as one of the top NL pitchers of the teens. If you like peak, maybe Dave Orr or Silver King could fit in.

[dgarza]

That's a pretty comprehensive list. I always link Hippo Vaughn in my mind with Wilbur Cooper as one of the top NL pitchers of the teens. If you like peak, maybe Dave Orr or Silver King could fit in.

These are good additions. I would mention Levi Meyerle, Lip Pike, Mike Donlin, and Fred Carroll.
Are Mike Grady and Danny Murphy "great" enough to make the list?

[dgarza]

Depending on how liberal you want to get and which leagues you are considering, a bunch of other names to consider:
Harry Davis
Henry Larkin
John Reilly
Bill Bradley
Ed McKean
Cy Williams
Ginger Beaumont
Mike Smith
Benny Kauff
George Stone
Cy Seymour
George Hall
Ed Reulbach
Tom York
Ed Swartwood
Tip O'Neill
Abner Dalrymple
Jim Devlin
Ken Williams
Socks Seybold
John O'Rourke
Emil Gross
Duke Kenworthy
Doc White
Joe Wood
...there are probably a few other pitchers to consider as well.

[Chadwick]

Is this advanced stats based only, or will contemporary opinion be weighed in as well?

Everything is on the table.

[Toledo Inquisition]

Hal Chase by reputation then....

Is someone like George Mullin too obscure? He won 20 games five times.

[Jar of Flies]

Some others to consider for a Big Hall of Fame type of project:

Ted Breitenstein
George J. Burns
Mike Griffin
Fielder Jones
Dickey Pearce
Roger Peckinpaugh
Jack Powell
Jack Rowe
Ray Schalk - integral member of the "clean" 1919 Black Sox
Kip Selbach
Bob Shawkey
Mike (Elmer) Smith
Roy Thomas
Buck Weaver - integral member of the "dirty" 1919 Black Sox
Jim Whitney

[layson27]

P
Jack Chesbro

C
Jimmy Archer
Lou Criger

1B
Charles Comiskey

2B
Fred Pfeffer
Davy Force

3B
Art Devlin
Jerry Denny
Tommy Leach

SS
Germany Smith

LF
George Burns

CF
Bill Lange
Curt Welch

RF
Tommy McCarthy
Jim Fogarty

[Jar of Flies]

Pennock played until 1934 so a DQ, he was an add I checked into also, maybe shouldn't be a HOF, but he's probably better than generally given credit for.

[layson27]

Pennock played until 1934 so a DQ, he was an add I checked into also, maybe shouldn't be a HOF, but he's probably better than generally given credit for.

Oops. I included him due to several baseball men putting him on their All-Time team.

[1905 Giants]

P- Sadie McMahon

[Unconventional]

Friends,

I am undertaking an off-site project where I need to develop a fairly liberal definition of the greatest players (at each position) of the game's first half century or so. I'm looking for MLB players only (including the National Association) and the only firm cut-off is that the player must have retired before 1931.

Please help me by suggesting names that belong on these lists. I'm sure I've missed a few, at the very least.

Here's what I've got so far.

Pitchers
Babe Adams
Pete Alexander
Chief Bender
Tommy Bond
Mordecai Brown
Charlie Buffinton
Bob Caruthers
John Clarkson
Eddie Cicotte
Wilbur Cooper
Stan Coveleski
Pud Galvin
Clark Griffith
Noodles Hahn
Walter Johnson
Addie Joss
Tim Keefe
Christy Mathewson
Carl Mays
Joe McGinnity
Jim McCormick
Tony Mullane
Kid Nichols
Eddie Plank
Charley Radbourn
Nap Rucker
Amos Rusie
Urban Shocker
Al Spalding
Rube Waddell
Ed Walsh
Mickey Welch
Vic Willis
Cy Young

Catchers
Charlie Bennett
Roger Bresnahan
Jack Clements
Buck Ewing
Johnny Kling
Cal McVey
Deacon White

First Basemen
Cap Anson
Jake Beckley
Dan Brouthers
Frank Chance
Roger Connor
Jake Daubert
Jack Fournier
Ed Konetchy
George Sisler
Joe Start
Fred Tenney

Second Basemen
Ross Barnes
Cupid Childs
Eddie Collins
Larry Doyle
Fred Dunlap
Johnny Evers
Nap Lajoie
Bid McPhee
Del Pratt
Hardy Richardson

Third Basemen
Frank Baker
Jimmy Collins
Lave Cross
Larry Gardner
Heinie Groh
Bill Joyce
Denny Lyons
John McGraw
Billy Nash
Ezra Sutton
Ned Williamson

Shortstops
Dave Bancroft
Bill Dahlen
George Davis
Art Fletcher
Jack Glasscock
Hughie Jennings
Herman Long
Joe Tinker
Honus Wagner
Bobby Wallace
John Ward
George Wright

Left Fielders
Jesse Burkett
Fred Clarke
Ed Delahanty
Charley Jones
Joe Kelley
Sherry Magee
Jim O’Rourke
Jimmy Sheckard
Harry Stovey
Bobby Veach
Zack Wheat

Center Fielders
Pete Browning
Max Carey
Ty Cobb
Hugh Duffy
George Gore
Billy Hamilton
Paul Hines
Tommy Leach
Jimmy Ryan
Tris Speaker
George Van Haltren

Right Fielders
Gavvy Cravath
Sam Crawford
Elmer Flick
Harry Hooper
Joe Jackson
Willie Keeler
King Kelly
Sam Thompson
Mike Tiernan
Ross Youngs

Much appreciated.

Just curious, making an observation. “Fairly liberal definition” of greatest ball players would seem to be at odds with “MLB only.”

[Freakshow]

The first round polls in The Ultimate Quest for Candidates project are a good place to check for names.

[bluesky5]

Deacon Phillippe had an oft forgotten great peak. There are a bunch of black guys unless you aren't including them.