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  • bluesky5
    replied
    Deacon Phillippe had an oft forgotten great peak. There are a bunch of black guys unless you aren't including them.

    Leave a comment:


  • Freakshow
    replied
    The first round polls in The Ultimate Quest for Candidates project are a good place to check for names.

    Leave a comment:


  • Unconventional
    replied
    Originally posted by Chadwick View Post
    Friends,

    I am undertaking an off-site project where I need to develop a fairly liberal definition of the greatest players (at each position) of the game's first half century or so. I'm looking for MLB players only (including the National Association) and the only firm cut-off is that the player must have retired before 1931.

    Please help me by suggesting names that belong on these lists. I'm sure I've missed a few, at the very least.

    Here's what I've got so far.

    Pitchers
    Babe Adams
    Pete Alexander
    Chief Bender
    Tommy Bond
    Mordecai Brown
    Charlie Buffinton
    Bob Caruthers
    John Clarkson
    Eddie Cicotte
    Wilbur Cooper
    Stan Coveleski
    Pud Galvin
    Clark Griffith
    Noodles Hahn
    Walter Johnson
    Addie Joss
    Tim Keefe
    Christy Mathewson
    Carl Mays
    Joe McGinnity
    Jim McCormick
    Tony Mullane
    Kid Nichols
    Eddie Plank
    Charley Radbourn
    Nap Rucker
    Amos Rusie
    Urban Shocker
    Al Spalding
    Rube Waddell
    Ed Walsh
    Mickey Welch
    Vic Willis
    Cy Young

    Catchers
    Charlie Bennett
    Roger Bresnahan
    Jack Clements
    Buck Ewing
    Johnny Kling
    Cal McVey
    Deacon White

    First Basemen
    Cap Anson
    Jake Beckley
    Dan Brouthers
    Frank Chance
    Roger Connor
    Jake Daubert
    Jack Fournier
    Ed Konetchy
    George Sisler
    Joe Start
    Fred Tenney

    Second Basemen
    Ross Barnes
    Cupid Childs
    Eddie Collins
    Larry Doyle
    Fred Dunlap
    Johnny Evers
    Nap Lajoie
    Bid McPhee
    Del Pratt
    Hardy Richardson

    Third Basemen
    Frank Baker
    Jimmy Collins
    Lave Cross
    Larry Gardner
    Heinie Groh
    Bill Joyce
    Denny Lyons
    John McGraw
    Billy Nash
    Ezra Sutton
    Ned Williamson

    Shortstops
    Dave Bancroft
    Bill Dahlen
    George Davis
    Art Fletcher
    Jack Glasscock
    Hughie Jennings
    Herman Long
    Joe Tinker
    Honus Wagner
    Bobby Wallace
    John Ward
    George Wright

    Left Fielders
    Jesse Burkett
    Fred Clarke
    Ed Delahanty
    Charley Jones
    Joe Kelley
    Sherry Magee
    Jim O’Rourke
    Jimmy Sheckard
    Harry Stovey
    Bobby Veach
    Zack Wheat

    Center Fielders
    Pete Browning
    Max Carey
    Ty Cobb
    Hugh Duffy
    George Gore
    Billy Hamilton
    Paul Hines
    Tommy Leach
    Jimmy Ryan
    Tris Speaker
    George Van Haltren

    Right Fielders
    Gavvy Cravath
    Sam Crawford
    Elmer Flick
    Harry Hooper
    Joe Jackson
    Willie Keeler
    King Kelly
    Sam Thompson
    Mike Tiernan
    Ross Youngs

    Much appreciated.
    Just curious, making an observation. “Fairly liberal definition” of greatest ball players would seem to be at odds with “MLB only.”
    Last edited by Unconventional; 11-13-2019, 10:27 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • 1905 Giants
    replied
    P- Sadie McMahon

    Leave a comment:


  • layson27
    replied
    Originally posted by Jar of Flies View Post
    Pennock played until 1934 so a DQ, he was an add I checked into also, maybe shouldn't be a HOF, but he's probably better than generally given credit for.
    Oops. I included him due to several baseball men putting him on their All-Time team.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jar of Flies
    replied
    Pennock played until 1934 so a DQ, he was an add I checked into also, maybe shouldn't be a HOF, but he's probably better than generally given credit for.

    Leave a comment:


  • layson27
    replied
    P
    Jack Chesbro

    C
    Jimmy Archer
    Lou Criger

    1B
    Charles Comiskey

    2B
    Fred Pfeffer
    Davy Force

    3B
    Art Devlin
    Jerry Denny
    Tommy Leach

    SS
    Germany Smith

    LF
    George Burns

    CF
    Bill Lange
    Curt Welch

    RF
    Tommy McCarthy
    Jim Fogarty
    Last edited by layson27; 11-06-2019, 03:30 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jar of Flies
    replied
    Some others to consider for a Big Hall of Fame type of project:

    Ted Breitenstein
    George J. Burns
    Mike Griffin
    Fielder Jones
    Dickey Pearce
    Roger Peckinpaugh
    Jack Powell
    Jack Rowe
    Ray Schalk - integral member of the "clean" 1919 Black Sox
    Kip Selbach
    Bob Shawkey
    Mike (Elmer) Smith
    Roy Thomas
    Buck Weaver - integral member of the "dirty" 1919 Black Sox
    Jim Whitney
    Last edited by Jar of Flies; 11-06-2019, 12:09 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Toledo Inquisition
    replied
    Hal Chase by reputation then....

    Is someone like George Mullin too obscure? He won 20 games five times.
    Last edited by Toledo Inquisition; 11-06-2019, 11:23 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Chadwick
    replied
    Originally posted by layson27 View Post
    Is this advanced stats based only, or will contemporary opinion be weighed in as well?
    Everything is on the table.

    Leave a comment:


  • dgarza
    replied
    Depending on how liberal you want to get and which leagues you are considering, a bunch of other names to consider:
    Harry Davis
    Henry Larkin
    John Reilly
    Bill Bradley
    Ed McKean
    Cy Williams
    Ginger Beaumont
    Mike Smith
    Benny Kauff
    George Stone
    Cy Seymour
    George Hall
    Ed Reulbach
    Tom York
    Ed Swartwood
    Tip O'Neill
    Abner Dalrymple
    Jim Devlin
    Ken Williams
    Socks Seybold
    John O'Rourke
    Emil Gross
    Duke Kenworthy
    Doc White
    Joe Wood
    ...there are probably a few other pitchers to consider as well.
    Last edited by dgarza; 11-06-2019, 11:45 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • dgarza
    replied
    Originally posted by PVNICK View Post
    That's a pretty comprehensive list. I always link Hippo Vaughn in my mind with Wilbur Cooper as one of the top NL pitchers of the teens. If you like peak, maybe Dave Orr or Silver King could fit in.
    These are good additions. I would mention Levi Meyerle, Lip Pike, Mike Donlin, and Fred Carroll.
    Are Mike Grady and Danny Murphy "great" enough to make the list?
    Last edited by dgarza; 11-06-2019, 10:08 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • PVNICK
    replied
    That's a pretty comprehensive list. I always link Hippo Vaughn in my mind with Wilbur Cooper as one of the top NL pitchers of the teens. If you like peak, maybe Dave Orr or Silver King could fit in.

    Leave a comment:


  • layson27
    replied
    Is this advanced stats based only, or will contemporary opinion be weighed in as well?

    Leave a comment:


  • Chadwick
    started a topic Help Needed on Early Ballplayers

    Help Needed on Early Ballplayers

    Friends,

    I am undertaking an off-site project where I need to develop a fairly liberal definition of the greatest players (at each position) of the game's first half century or so. I'm looking for MLB players only (including the National Association) and the only firm cut-off is that the player must have retired before 1931.

    Please help me by suggesting names that belong on these lists. I'm sure I've missed a few, at the very least.

    Here's what I've got so far.

    Pitchers
    Babe Adams
    Pete Alexander
    Chief Bender
    Tommy Bond
    Mordecai Brown
    Charlie Buffinton
    Bob Caruthers
    John Clarkson
    Eddie Cicotte
    Wilbur Cooper
    Stan Coveleski
    Pud Galvin
    Clark Griffith
    Noodles Hahn
    Walter Johnson
    Addie Joss
    Tim Keefe
    Christy Mathewson
    Carl Mays
    Joe McGinnity
    Jim McCormick
    Tony Mullane
    Kid Nichols
    Eddie Plank
    Charley Radbourn
    Nap Rucker
    Amos Rusie
    Urban Shocker
    Al Spalding
    Rube Waddell
    Ed Walsh
    Mickey Welch
    Vic Willis
    Cy Young

    Catchers
    Charlie Bennett
    Roger Bresnahan
    Jack Clements
    Buck Ewing
    Johnny Kling
    Cal McVey
    Deacon White

    First Basemen
    Cap Anson
    Jake Beckley
    Dan Brouthers
    Frank Chance
    Roger Connor
    Jake Daubert
    Jack Fournier
    Ed Konetchy
    George Sisler
    Joe Start
    Fred Tenney

    Second Basemen
    Ross Barnes
    Cupid Childs
    Eddie Collins
    Larry Doyle
    Fred Dunlap
    Johnny Evers
    Nap Lajoie
    Bid McPhee
    Del Pratt
    Hardy Richardson

    Third Basemen
    Frank Baker
    Jimmy Collins
    Lave Cross
    Larry Gardner
    Heinie Groh
    Bill Joyce
    Denny Lyons
    John McGraw
    Billy Nash
    Ezra Sutton
    Ned Williamson

    Shortstops
    Dave Bancroft
    Bill Dahlen
    George Davis
    Art Fletcher
    Jack Glasscock
    Hughie Jennings
    Herman Long
    Joe Tinker
    Honus Wagner
    Bobby Wallace
    John Ward
    George Wright

    Left Fielders
    Jesse Burkett
    Fred Clarke
    Ed Delahanty
    Charley Jones
    Joe Kelley
    Sherry Magee
    Jim O’Rourke
    Jimmy Sheckard
    Harry Stovey
    Bobby Veach
    Zack Wheat

    Center Fielders
    Pete Browning
    Max Carey
    Ty Cobb
    Hugh Duffy
    George Gore
    Billy Hamilton
    Paul Hines
    Tommy Leach
    Jimmy Ryan
    Tris Speaker
    George Van Haltren

    Right Fielders
    Gavvy Cravath
    Sam Crawford
    Elmer Flick
    Harry Hooper
    Joe Jackson
    Willie Keeler
    King Kelly
    Sam Thompson
    Mike Tiernan
    Ross Youngs

    Much appreciated.

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