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Top 10 Fielding Pitchers Since the Gold Glove was been awarded (1957 to Present)

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  • #16
    Originally posted by bluesky5 View Post

    I knew of his all-around athletic prowess but I didn't know or forgot he won 9 gold gloves. He nearly fell over at the end of his delivery. Didn't come to a ready defensive position at all.
    Speaking of athleticism, it might not be an accident that most everyone (with ample opportunities) we mentioned were also above-average hitting pitchers:

    Maddux, Glavine, Grienke, Gibson, Palmer, Shantz, Haddix, Kaat, Wainwright, etc. Most of them significantly so.

    There are exceptions, of course (Niekro).
    1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

    1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

    1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


    The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
    The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Bothrops Atrox View Post

      Speaking of athleticism, it might not be an accident that most everyone (with ample opportunities) we mentioned were also above-average hitting pitchers:

      Maddux, Glavine, Grienke, Gibson, Palmer, Shantz, Haddix, Kaat, Wainwright, etc. Most of them significantly so.

      There are exceptions, of course (Niekro).
      Carlton, Reuschel, & Fernando too...yeah, a definite correlation, never registered with me before.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Bothrops Atrox View Post
        According to a few sources, it looks like Buehrle's defensive value may have been between 75-100 runs in his career. Not even counting controlling the running game, etc. We are talking maybe 35% of his total run prevention. It is pretty remarkable and an often ignored aspect of pitchers.
        Small correction. According to RS - Buehlre was likely more like a +50 guy due to fielding itself. I didn't realize that the other half of the original number I looked at included baserunning control.

        Still really good, of course.
        1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

        1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

        1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


        The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
        The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

        Comment


        • #19
          Anyone know if Spahn and Ford were good fielders? they have a lot of earmarks of good fielders, but I have never heard any first-hand accounts of people who watched them.
          1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

          1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

          1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


          The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
          The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

          Comment


          • #20
            I can't think of a pitcher who ever had more highlight reel plays than Buehrle.

            Granted, pre-ESPN guys aren't going to have the opportunities to shine on videotape. But that still gives us about 40 years of stuff to go on.

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            • #21
              Mike Hampton had a great defensive reputation and was also a good hitter. What do the metrics say?

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              • #22
                Originally posted by brett View Post
                Mike Hampton had a great defensive reputation and was also a good hitter. What do the metrics say?
                Like Gibson and Glavine, Hampton was a multi-sport star who was HIGHLY sought-after by Miami, Notre Dame, Florida State, and others in football. Not surprising that he was so versatile on the diamond. According to DRS, Hampton was +10 fielding runs in his last 5 seasons. Extrapolating that based on playing-time and considering his age when the data was available, I would say +40 runs is reasonable. So yeah, definitely in the good fielders/good hitter mold.


                Again - according to the metric. Hard to say how much of that is REALLY defense and how much maybe something like creating weaker contact creating more ground-balls than average.

                GB tendencies are something else that e could find correlations for. Good defenders will rack-up more defensive value if they produce a lot of GBs. So how much of that is defense vs. pitching credit?
                Last edited by Bothrops Atrox; 11-09-2019, 07:01 AM.
                1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

                1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

                1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


                The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
                The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Bothrops Atrox View Post

                  Speaking of athleticism, it might not be an accident that most everyone (with ample opportunities) we mentioned were also above-average hitting pitchers:

                  Maddux, Glavine, Grienke, Gibson, Palmer, Shantz, Haddix, Kaat, Wainwright, etc. Most of them significantly so.

                  There are exceptions, of course (Niekro).
                  Good point never thought of that. Other guys I recall being excellent fielders are Bob Lemon who was an excellent hitter too. Shantz not so much but had his moments. Don't they have pitcher Rfield for back then? Nick Altrock was considered one of the best fielders of his time.
                  "No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Cougar View Post
                    Just to toss a few names out not mentioned yet:

                    Bobby Shantz
                    Harvey Haddix
                    Phil Niekro
                    Ron Guidry
                    Jim Palmer
                    Mark Langston
                    Kenny Rogers
                    Harvey Haddix was one of the best fielding pitchers of his day. He won 3 consecutive Pitchers' Gold Gloves. (1958, 1959 & 1960).
                    Bobby Shantz had his best years before the Gold Glove Award was inaugurated in 1957.
                    Last edited by 1954 Phils; 11-09-2019, 06:57 AM.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Toledo Inquisition View Post

                      Mark was the man with the glove!







                      Langston took home 7 Gold gloves.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Bothrops Atrox View Post

                        Small correction. According to RS - Buehlre was likely more like a +50 guy due to fielding itself. I didn't realize that the other half of the original number I looked at included baserunning control.

                        Still really good, of course.
                        Buehrle's 4 Gold Gloves is a good total and should put him in the Top 10, maybe somewhere in the #6 to #10 range.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by 1954 Phils View Post
                          Bobby Shantz had his best years before the Gold Glove Award was inaugurated in 1957.
                          Yeah, and he nevertheless still won eight!

                          He would have been up there with Maddux & Kaat had the award existed his entire career.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by 1954 Phils View Post

                            Buehrle's 4 Gold Gloves is a good total and should put him in the Top 10, maybe somewhere in the #6 to #10 range.
                            Of course we have real data now that shows he was good. 3 GGs or 10 GGs likely doesn't make much of a difference. As we have minimal confidence in GG voting for guys who make a thousand plays per year we should have EVEN LESS confidence for guys who make a thousand plays for their entire careers. Maddux was likely not the best fielding pitcher in the NLhis last 5-6 wins won a bunch of GGs he didn't probably didn't deserve. I wouldn't give GGs much more than a passing glance.
                            1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

                            1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

                            1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


                            The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
                            The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Lemon was a pretty slick fielder at 3b, as I recall. Makes sense he'd retain that skill at pitcher.

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                              • #30
                                It seems a disproportionate number of these slick fielders on the mound are left-handed.

                                Is that an advantage? I know it is to a degree at first base and right field (and something between a modest disadvantage & an impossibility almost everywhere else, other than CF, which is neutral), but I am not sure how handedness works out for pitchers when fielding.

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