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2019 BBF Top 100 Position Players of All Time #71-75

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  • #31
    Originally posted by NJRob65 View Post

    This is not the Top 100 sluggers, or even hitters, of all time. If one factors in defense, shortstops will be considered and voted in, that includes Reese.
    .
    .
    .
    Harmon Killebrew -164 (96)
    Goose Goslin- 78(125)
    Eddie Mjurray- 115 (112)
    Willie McCovey- 104 (117)
    I agree with you with player not only being ranked for offense, or I would have these players rated much higher. I've posted my top 100 before and it doesn't contain 40 first basemen and 40 left fielders. But I think sometimes the adjustments go too far.

    I won't rail on PARC-D, Bothrops has put in a lot of hard work. I'll just say I disagree with it and will say I value things of greater importance such as sustained skill level, poor years being as equally important as good years, constant healthy service, and value over the mean with lesser emphasis placed on positional adjustments for a single all-comparison rating system. In my opinion, Lou Boudreau, Joe Mauer, and Chase Utley are so far below Jim Thome that PARC-D rates players on a different scale than do I. My methodology places emphasis in different components than it does. If PARC-D is a good system for what a reviewer values, I recommend it then.

    I've been toying with a combined system with OPS+ or its equivalent wOBA, career length/years, games per year, prorated service and standard deviations from year to year which I could use to help me out, but I've not been successful yet. It would give offensive credit moreso for some of the areas of the game which I consider important to being a good hitter.
    Last edited by Toledo Inquisition; 12-02-2019, 03:58 PM.
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    • #32
      [QUOTE=Jar of Flies;n3555403]
      Originally posted by Toledo Inquisition View Post
      1. Jim Thome (25th on my list)
      2. Harmon Killebrew (39th on my list)
      3. Goose Goslin (40th on my list)
      4. Eddie Murray (47th on my list)
      5. Willie McCovey (54th on my list)[/QUOTE]

      Anybody else have McCovey coming up soon, I'm reviewing his case carefully?
      Helluva slugger and was a big plus in the clutch to boot.
      Yes. For "hit-only" players he's between Cabrera & Heilmann for me.
      Last edited by layson27; 12-02-2019, 04:41 PM.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Toledo Inquisition View Post

        I agree with you not only being offense, or I would have these players rated much higher. But I think sometimes the adjustments go too far.
        I don't have a problem with positional adjustments. I tend to think "replacement" runs tend to elevate shortstops a little too much though. WAA is looking more and more to me like a better way to judge SS's in relation to other pos. players.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by bluesky5 View Post
          1. Pudge Rodriguez
          2. Miguel Cabrera
          3. Ernie Banks
          4. Derek Jeter
          5. Pete Rose
          I still need a Rose replacement or I will only count 1-4.
          1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

          1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

          1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


          The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
          The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

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          • #35
            If somebody wants to run the numbers too, I would greatly appreciate it. better to have an extra pair of eyes. I don't want to make the same mistake again.
            1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

            1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

            1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


            The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
            The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

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            • #36
              Tough sledding.

              1. McGwire
              2. Cabrera
              3. MRamirez- I just can't keep a guy who hit this good out any longer- too much for too long
              4. Gwynn
              5. Jeter- I'm a little shaky on this one

              McCovey, Killebrew, Cochrane, Banks, Thome, some others vying for my next spots.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Bothrops Atrox View Post
                If somebody wants to run the numbers too, I would greatly appreciate it. better to have an extra pair of eyes. I don't want to make the same mistake again.
                I can do so, you've been doing the heavy lifting solo for 14 rounds.
                Washington Nationals: 2019 World Series Champs!

                Play the Who am I? game in trivia and you can make this signature line yours for 3 days (baseball signatures only!)

                Go here for a link to all player links! http://www.baseball-fever.com/forum/...player-threads

                Go here for all your 1920's/1930's OF info

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Toledo Inquisition View Post

                  I can do so, you've been doing the heavy lifting solo for 14 rounds.
                  Hey- no triple counting for The Milkshake Monster, TI!

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by BigRon View Post

                    Hey- no triple counting for The Milkshake Monster, TI!
                    By my math, he's already been miscounted for at least 8 rounds!



                    It's not like you won't be triple checking him specifically, right?

                    Washington Nationals: 2019 World Series Champs!

                    Play the Who am I? game in trivia and you can make this signature line yours for 3 days (baseball signatures only!)

                    Go here for a link to all player links! http://www.baseball-fever.com/forum/...player-threads

                    Go here for all your 1920's/1930's OF info

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                    • #40
                      If Chipper Jones is #42 then I hope Edgar Martinez at least makes the top 100. I haven't heard his name mentioned yet. He was a better hitter than Chipper. He deserves to be lower since he was a late bloomer and primarily a DH, but he is one of the best hitters I ever saw. Despite his extremely late start Edgar has a significantly higher WAR (68.4) than some of the weak-fielding sluggers who have been getting votes (e.g. McGwire, Sheffield).
                      Last edited by GiambiJuice; 12-03-2019, 09:38 AM.
                      My top 10 players:

                      1. Babe Ruth
                      2. Barry Bonds
                      3. Ty Cobb
                      4. Ted Williams
                      5. Willie Mays
                      6. Alex Rodriguez
                      7. Hank Aaron
                      8. Honus Wagner
                      9. Lou Gehrig
                      10. Mickey Mantle

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by GiambiJuice View Post
                        If Chipper Jones is #42 then I hope Edgar Martinez at least makes the top 100. I haven't heard his name mentioned yet. He was a better hitter than Chipper. He deserves to be lower since he was a late bloomer and primarily a DH, but he is one of the best hitters I ever saw. Despite his extremely late start Edgar has a significantly higher WAR (68.4) than some of the weak-fielding sluggers who have been getting votes (e.g. McGwire, Sheffield).
                        Miggy> Edgar, I think. They only have similar WAR because Edgar was DHing and wasn't getting a ton of negative fielding runs year after year. Miggy was also a much more dominant player than Edgar...he is 14th in MVP shares and Edgar is 262nd.
                        Last edited by willshad; 12-03-2019, 10:18 AM.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by willshad View Post

                          Miggy> Edgar, I think. They only have similar WAR because Edgar was DHing and wasn't getting a ton of negative fielding runs year after year. Miggy was also a much more dominant player than Edgar...he is 14th in MVP shares and Edgar is 262nd.
                          Agreed - Two-time MVP and four-time batting champ Miggy deserves to be ranked higher than Edgar.
                          Last edited by GiambiJuice; 12-03-2019, 10:33 AM.
                          My top 10 players:

                          1. Babe Ruth
                          2. Barry Bonds
                          3. Ty Cobb
                          4. Ted Williams
                          5. Willie Mays
                          6. Alex Rodriguez
                          7. Hank Aaron
                          8. Honus Wagner
                          9. Lou Gehrig
                          10. Mickey Mantle

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by GiambiJuice View Post
                            If Chipper Jones is #42 then I hope Edgar Martinez at least makes the top 100. I haven't heard his name mentioned yet. He was a better hitter than Chipper. He deserves to be lower since he was a late bloomer and primarily a DH, but he is one of the best hitters I ever saw. Despite his extremely late start Edgar has a significantly higher WAR (68.4) than some of the weak-fielding sluggers who have been getting votes (e.g. McGwire, Sheffield).
                            Anyone for Molitor? Edmonds? Helton? Just wondering where they rank compared to him. Belle? McGriff?

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by brett View Post

                              Anyone for Molitor? Edmonds? Helton? Just wondering where they rank compared to him. Belle? McGriff?
                              Molitor will make my top 100, and maaaybe Edmonds, but I don't know...we're running out of spots! Wish we could keep it going after 100. Top-150, anyone? Top-200?
                              My top 10 players:

                              1. Babe Ruth
                              2. Barry Bonds
                              3. Ty Cobb
                              4. Ted Williams
                              5. Willie Mays
                              6. Alex Rodriguez
                              7. Hank Aaron
                              8. Honus Wagner
                              9. Lou Gehrig
                              10. Mickey Mantle

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by GiambiJuice View Post

                                Molitor will make my top 100, and maaaybe Edmonds, but I don't know...we're running out of spots! Wish we could keep it going after 100. Top-150, anyone? Top-200?
                                200 seems like quite a stretch to me, but I like the idea of going to 150. What do others think? Maybe more importantly, what does Matthew think?

                                Comment

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