Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

New Joe Jackson Innocence Poll/Survey

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • In 1940 Joe Jackson gave his own account to SPORT Magazine.

    http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/project...ksonstory.html
    Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

    Comment


    • Originally posted by yanks0714 View Post
      I love this argument simply because of it's logical assumptions.

      Yes, the White Sox payroll WAS among the leagues highest as I understand it. BUT, it was an illusion. Inflated by the high salary that Eddie Collins pulled in giving the impression of a high team salary. Collins was far and away the highest paid players on the team. The salaries of the players was badly skewed. Eddie Collins was a rare breed. he had a college education and was not some back country rube whom Comiskey could dominate.

      Buck Weaver had yearly contractual squabbles with Comiskey who seemed to enjoy such 'negotiations' and for how little he could get his players to play for.
      Buck Weaver was the games highest paid third baseman in 1919. He had a multi year deal that he tried to get out of in 1920.

      Unless Eddie Collins was making about $50,000 I doubt if his salary was skewing the total team salaries much.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules View Post
        In 1940 Joe Jackson gave his own account to SPORT Magazine.

        http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/project...ksonstory.html
        Fascinating article, thanks. I have to say something sounds fishy about Jackson's story, if you'll forgive the pun.

        Jackson claims he threw out five men at the plate in the Series, but going through the PBP on Baseball Reference, I can only find one.

        Interesting that they published Jackson's home address in the story. I guess it was a different world in 1949.
        They call me Mr. Baseball. Not because of my love for the game; because of all the stitches in my head.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by EdTarbusz View Post
          Buck Weaver was the games highest paid third baseman in 1919. He had a multi year deal that he tried to get out of in 1920.

          Unless Eddie Collins was making about $50,000 I doubt if his salary was skewing the total team salaries much.
          Chicago White Sox salaries in 1919:
          Eddie Collins $15,000.00
          Joe Jackson $6,000.00
          Buck Weaver $6,000.00
          Eddie Cicotte $5,000.00
          Chick Gandil $4,000.00
          Happy Felsch $3,750.00
          Lefty Williams $3,000.00
          Fred McMullin $2,750.00
          Swede Risberg $2,500.00

          Collins was making $9,000 MORE than the next highest paid player on the team.

          Buck Weaver did negotiate a 3 year deal with Comiskey for the following season of $7,250 for 3 years. For Comiskey, it was great as Weaver's contract was now set. He wouldn't have to pay Buck any more than that.
          Weaver did fight with Comiskey each year over his salary until he signed that 3 year deal. Unfortunately for Buck he never got to collect on the final 2 years of it.

          Yankees Fan Since 1957

          Comment


          • Originally posted by yanks0714 View Post
            Chicago White Sox salaries in 1919:
            Eddie Collins $15,000.00
            Joe Jackson $6,000.00
            Buck Weaver $6,000.00
            Eddie Cicotte $5,000.00
            Chick Gandil $4,000.00
            Happy Felsch $3,750.00
            Lefty Williams $3,000.00
            Fred McMullin $2,750.00
            Swede Risberg $2,500.00

            Collins was making $9,000 MORE than the next highest paid player on the team.

            Buck Weaver did negotiate a 3 year deal with Comiskey for the following season of $7,250 for 3 years. For Comiskey, it was great as Weaver's contract was now set. He wouldn't have to pay Buck any more than that.
            Weaver did fight with Comiskey each year over his salary until he signed that 3 year deal. Unfortunately for Buck he never got to collect on the final 2 years of it.
            Good money for 1919. Even Risberg's in an era when the average AMerican was making less than $1000 a year. Weaver wanted to renegotiate his multi year deal after the 1919 season and Comiskey refused to renegotiate.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by ol' aches and pains View Post
              Fascinating article, thanks. I have to say something sounds fishy about Jackson's story, if you'll forgive the pun.

              Jackson claims he threw out five men at the plate in the Series, but going through the PBP on Baseball Reference, I can only find one.

              Interesting that they published Jackson's home address in the story. I guess it was a different world in 1949.
              You're welcome. I got the Jackson inverview link from this webpage that gives a details account of the scandal.

              http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/project...oxaccount.html

              The author even mentions this about Jackson's 1949 interview.

              In 1949, "Shoeless" Joe Jackson offered his own account of the Black Sox Trial in a SPORT Magazine article. Jackson's retelling of events differs in many particulars from the account he gave in his 1920 confession (See Court Records), but nonetheless makes for interesting reading. See: Joe Jackson's account : "This is the Truth."
              Last edited by Honus Wagner Rules; 12-27-2012, 09:41 AM.
              Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

              Comment


              • Has anyone else seen this webpage?! :hyper:

                http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/project.../blacksox.html
                Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

                Comment


                • hard to say.

                  If he took the money I would say the guys have been ripped by Joe

                  his line was .375, .394, .563 in that WS.
                  I now have my own non commercial blog about training for batspeed and power using my training experience in baseball and track and field.

                  Comment


                  • Shoeless Joe`s address in Greenville,SC was at 119 East Wilburn not Wilborn as the author states.Back in 2006 the home was moved to it`s present address of 356(Joe`s lifetime BA) Field Street where it is now the Joe Jackson Museum.You can go to Google map and type in that East Wilburn address and see that it is an empty lot located on a very pleasant looking street and the Oak sapling is now very large.117872[/ATTACH]
                    Attached Files

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Nimrod View Post
                      Shoeless Joe`s address in Greenville,SC was at 119 East Wilburn not Wilborn as the author states.Back in 2006 the home was moved to it`s present address of 356(Joe`s lifetime BA) Field Street where it is now the Joe Jackson Museum.You can go to Google map and type in that East Wilburn address and see that it is an empty lot located on a very pleasant looking street and the Oak sapling is now very large.117872[/ATTACH]
                      I've been there. Sits directly across the street from the Greenville ballpark (Red Sox A team) which is modeled after Fenway Park replete with Green Monster. Very nice ballpark.

                      I struck up a conversation with one of the people who runs the Joe Jackson museum a few years ago. The gentleman was very well informed in Jackson's life. I found it interesting albeit small.

                      Yankees Fan Since 1957

                      Comment


                      • I've been there. Sits directly across the street from the Greenville ballpark (Red Sox A team) which is modeled after Fenway Park replete with Green Monster. Very nice ballpark.

                        I struck up a conversation with one of the people who runs the Joe Jackson museum a few years ago. The gentleman was very well informed in Jackson's life. I found it interesting albeit small.

                        Yankees Fan Since 1957

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by dominik View Post
                          hard to say.

                          If he took the money I would say the guys have been ripped by Joe

                          his line was .375, .394, .563 in that WS.
                          Not singling you out but rather the many who use the word/phrase "took the money" which would indicated it accepted it willingly as if it were handed to him and which would be clear evidence to me that he was, indeed, guilty.

                          However, I've never read where it happened that way. I prefer to think that it was 'foisted' on him. While a rube, he pretty much knew what it was given to him for, even if he was not throwing games, and never touched it afterwards. I suspect Gandil/Williams 'gave' it to him to tie him up in the fix by:

                          * to try get Joe to throw games.
                          * blackmail him to throw games
                          * blackmail him so that he would be reluctant to speak up and spill the beans as he had 'received' dirty money as well.

                          During his garbled testimony, where he may have been intoxicated, Joe did testify that he received money but not the total amount he had been told he would. That testimony was damaging. I believe Joe was trying to do the right thing, answer questions accurately, nervous, drunk, and as usual unable to comprehend the basic line of questioning. Kind of, "Yeah, I got money but not the total amount I was told I'd get" therefore sounding like he had agreed to it and felt short changed even though he had not agreed to it and din't want the money.

                          Yankees Fan Since 1957

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by yanks0714 View Post
                            Not singling you out but rather the many who use the word/phrase "took the money" which would indicated it accepted it willingly as if it were handed to him and which would be clear evidence to me that he was, indeed, guilty.

                            However, I've never read where it happened that way. I prefer to think that it was 'foisted' on him. While a rube, he pretty much knew what it was given to him for, even if he was not throwing games, and never touched it afterwards. I suspect Gandil/Williams 'gave' it to him to tie him up in the fix by:

                            * to try get Joe to throw games.
                            * blackmail him to throw games
                            * blackmail him so that he would be reluctant to speak up and spill the beans as he had 'received' dirty money as well.

                            During his garbled testimony, where he may have been intoxicated, Joe did testify that he received money but not the total amount he had been told he would. That testimony was damaging. I believe Joe was trying to do the right thing, answer questions accurately, nervous, drunk, and as usual unable to comprehend the basic line of questioning. Kind of, "Yeah, I got money but not the total amount I was told I'd get" therefore sounding like he had agreed to it and felt short changed even though he had not agreed to it and din't want the money.
                            All totally plausible. I personally think he knew of the fix and said nothing also he didn't get any money until Williams put it in his bed mid-series. After which he played better than before.

                            I forgot about the bold part!

                            Regardless of perception of how things went down the evidence points to his innocence.
                            "No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”

                            Comment


                            • After reading the late Furman Bisher's interview with Jackson, I am inclined to believe that he didn't throw the series in '19. Check it out on google and see if you might agree.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Braves Fan View Post
                                After reading the late Furman Bisher's interview with Jackson, I am inclined to believe that he didn't throw the series in '19. Check it out on google and see if you might agree.
                                No need to google, it's linked in the OP.
                                They call me Mr. Baseball. Not because of my love for the game; because of all the stitches in my head.

                                Comment

                                Ad Widget

                                Collapse
                                Working...
                                X