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Project Proposal - The BBF Ranking Game

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  • Project Proposal - The BBF Ranking Game

    This seems like a good time to undertake this diversion. I have devised a format for ranking every player in history, that we can do if people are interested. It’s an attempt to go one better on the Collaboration Game that we did over a decade ago, to truly reflect the Wisdom of the Crowd at BBF.

    This game can be done with only three participants, but the more we have playing the better our rankings will be. It’s actually pretty similar to the method used in the Hall of Fame Purgatory project, except that the Nominating thread will be totally separate from the Voting thread. Also, rather than the mod submitting the nominees, that will be done by everyone.

    Here’s the proposal:
    1. Each round begins with a Nominating thread.
      • Anyone can make a post nominating or supporting up to three players they think should be on the next ballot (“Nominate Babe Ruth”).
      • If another person agrees that the player is due to be added to the list, they can second the nomination (“Second Babe Ruth”).
      • After that, the player requires still another person to approve the Nomination (“Third Babe Ruth. First nominee.”). A player will be included on the next ballot when he has been Nominated, Seconded, and Thirded. Each of these must be done by a different person; you can’t Second or Third your own Nominee.
      • Nominations will close when enough players to fill the next ballot have been Thirded.
      • The players need to allow room for others to participate. So please limit yourself to three Nominate+2nd+3rd postings in a calendar day. Feel free to make as many posts as you want discussing the players, but let others have their opinion counted on the actual selections of the nominees.
    2. Each round will have a Ballot thread to rank the current nominees.
      • There will be 10 players on the ballot in the first seven elections. After that, it will increase to 12 for the next seven elections, then 14, etc.
      • Ballot threads will remain open until the voters agree to close it, maybe a week or so. Really, there’s no deadline, elections can stay open for months like Bill Burgess’ old ranking project.
      • The top half of the ballot will be the winners of the election and be added to our all-time ranking list. The bottom half will be carried over to the next election, except for the player who finishes last, who will be tossed back into the nomination pool.
      • Under this scheme it will take 30 elections to rank the top 200 players; 58 elections to rank the top 500; 91 elections for 1000; 117 elections for 1500; 139 elections for 2000, and so on. Here’s an abridged chart of that:
    Election Nomin Ballot Elect Total
    #1 10 10 5 5
    #2 6 10 5 10
    #3 6 10 5 15
    #4 6 10 5 20
    #5 6 10 5 25
    #6 6 10 5 30
    #7 6 10 5 35
    #8 8 12 6 41
    #9 7 12 6 47
    #10 7 12 6 53
    #11 7 12 6 59
    #12 7 12 6 65
    #13 7 12 6 71
    #14 7 12 6 77
    #15 9 14 7 84
    #16 8 14 7 91
    #17 8 14 7 98
    #18 8 14 7 105
    #19 8 14 7 112
    #20 8 14 7 119
    #21 8 14 7 126
    #22 10 16 8 134
    #23 9 16 8 142
    #24 9 16 8 150
    #25 9 16 8 158
    #26 9 16 8 166
    #27 9 16 8 174
    #28 9 16 8 182
    #29 11 18 9 191
    #30 10 18 9 200
    #31 10 18 9 209
    #32 10 18 9 218
    #33 10 18 9 227
    #34 10 18 9 236
    #35 10 18 9 245
    #36 12 20 10 255
    #37 11 20 10 265
    #38 11 20 10 275
    #39 11 20 10 285
    #40 11 20 10 295
    #41 11 20 10 305
    #50 14 24 12 404
    #58 14 26 13 502
    #76 16 30 15 755
    #91 18 34 17 1001
    #102 20 38 19 1203
    #117 22 42 21 1505
    #139 25 48 24 2006
    #158 28 54 27 2495
    #176 32 60 30 3005
    3. Criteria for election.
    • We’ll consider anyone who could be eligible as a player for the NBHOFM. So all professional players in the United States since 1869. Value in other play such as NABBP, foreign leagues, barnstorming, etc., should be considered, as long as a significant portion of a player’s career value was accrued in professional play in North America.
    • We do want to consider circumstances that prevented players from participating at the game’s highest level at times when they could have been contributors. Due credit should be given for time missed due to short schedules, military service, racial barriers, being trapped in the minors, being blackballed or banned. But no extra credit for injuries, accidents or premature death.
    • Voters are expected to make their best effort to rank Negro leaguers and other players for whom the statistical record is incomplete or sketchy.
    • It’s left to the individual voter how much consideration to give to peak vs career, league quality affects, positional balance, time-lining, postseason credit, leverage, etc.
    • We’re here to rank the players, from the greatest on down. “The definition of a great player is one who helps his team win a lot of games.” -Bill James
    • So this ain’t the hall of fame; there’s no “character clause”. We’re assessing playing performance, nothing else. This task is difficult enough; we don’t need to consider how much weight to give non-playing factors, such as speculations about leadership, or sanctions for cheating, or hit pieces from disaffected writers, etc.
    4. I will start off being the project Moderator.
    • I’ll be sure to be around to run at least the first few elections, to work out any unforeseen kinks that may arise.
    • After that, these rules do not require anyone to be “in charge” of the project. To close an election, someone needs to post “Nominate Closing” in the Voting thread; then two other voters need to post “Second Closing” and “Third Closing”. After the results are tallied, anyone can start the next Nominating thread. Then when the ballot is filled, anyone can start the Voting thread, with the updated list of players in the OP. And so on.
    • There is no official list of Gamers. Anyone can join in or leave at any time.
    • The voters should be self-policing, calling out and dealing with anyone who makes more than three nominating/2nd/3rd votes in one day.
    • If a voter becomes particularly troublesome, trying to undermine the project in some way, the other voters can agree to exclude that person’s votes and nominations. Just make a post saying, “Exclude [Voter Name]”. If that gets a Second and a Third, the project will continue with everyone disregarding that person’s votes and nominations.

      I think that covers everything. Any questions? Who’s interested?
    Voting Results

    Election #1: 1. Babe Ruth – 2. Willie Mays – 3. Barry Bonds – 4. Ty Cobb – 5. Ted Williams
    Election #2: 6. Hank Aaron – 7. Walter Johnson – 8. Honus Wagner – 9. Stan Musial – 10. Roger Clemens
    Election #3: 11. Cy Young – 12. Lou Gehrig – 13. Rogers Hornsby – 14. Alex Rodriguez – 15. Mickey Mantle
    Election #4: 16. Tris Speaker – 17. Lefty Grove – 18. Greg Maddux – 19. Joe DiMaggio – 20. Mike Schmidt
    Election #5: 21. Albert Pujols – 22. Eddie Collins – 23. Oscar Charleston – 24. Rickey Henderson – 25. Frank Robinson
    Election #6: 26. Pete Alexander – 27. Mel Ott – 28. Joe Morgan – 29. Nap Lajoie – 30. Tom Seaver
    Election #7: 31. Jimmie Foxx – 32. Eddie Mathews – 33. Josh Gibson – 34. Randy Johnson – 35. Cap Anson
    Election #8: 36. Christy Mathewson - 37. Satchel Paige - 38. Johnny Bench - 39. Cal Ripken - 40. George Brett - 41. Kid Nichols
    Election #9: 42. Carl Yastrzemski – 43. Warren Spahn – 44. Pedro Martinez – 45. Jackie Robinson – 46. Dan Brouthers – 47. Ken Griffey Jr
    Election #10: 48. Roberto Clemente – 49. Johnny Mize – 50. Al Kaline – 51. Mike Trout – 52. Bob Gibson – 53. Pop Lloyd
    Election #11: 54. Roger Connor – 55. Charlie Gehringer – 56. Jeff Bagwell – 57. Reggie Jackson – 58. Wade Boggs – 59. Yogi Berra
    Election #12: 60. Joe Williams – 61. Ed Delahanty – 62. Chipper Jones – 63. Mike Piazza – 64. Steve Carlton – 65. Bob Feller
    Election #13: 66. Joe Jackson – 67. Clayton Kershaw – 68. Miguel Cabrera – 69. Gary Carter – 70. Pete Rose – 71. Arky Vaughan
    Election #14: 72. Hank Greenberg – 73. Frank Thomas – 74. Paul Waner – 75. Sam Crawford – 76. Gaylord Perry – 77. Martin Dihigo

    Election #15: 78. Rod Carew – 79. Phil Niekro – 80. Eddie Plank – 81. Manny Ramirez – 82. Willie Wells – 83. Bert Blyleven – 84. Jim Thome
    Election #16: 85. Curt Schilling – 86. Ichiro Suzuki – 87. Adrian Beltre – 88. Duke Snider – 89. Carlton Fisk – 90. Robin Roberts – 91. George Davis
    Election #17: 92. Mike Mussina – 93. Luke Appling – 94. Harry Heilmann – 95. Turkey Stearnes – 96. Bill Dickey – 97. Willie McCovey – 98. Robin Yount
    Election #18: 99. John Clarkson – 100. Fergie Jenkins – 101. Carl Hubbell – 102. Barry Larkin – 103. Roy Campanella – 104. Ernie Banks – 105. Bullet Joe Rogan
    Election #19: 106. Al Simmons – 107. Tony Gwynn – 108. Mariano Rivera – 109. Frankie Frisch – 110. Tom Glavine – 111. Derek Jeter – 112. Mickey Cochrane
    Election #20: 113. Mark McGwire – 114. Sandy Koufax – 115. Cristobal Torriente – 116. Pee Wee Reese – 117. Juan Marichal – 118. Jim Palmer – 119. Gabby Hartnett
    Election #21: 120. Larry Walker – 121. Justin Verlander – 122. Tim Keefe – 123. Joe Gordon – 124. Roy Halladay – 125. Bill Dahlen – 126. Ed Walsh
    Election #22: 127. Nolan Ryan – 128. Louis Santop – 129. Paul Molitor – 130. Ozzie Smith – 131. Eddie Murray – 132. Harmon Killebrew – 133. Alan Trammell – 134. Carlos Beltran
    Election #23: 135. Billy Hamilton – 136. John Smoltz – 137. Ivan Rodriguez – 138. Home Run Baker – 139. Brooks Robinson – 140. Robinson Cano – 141. Tim Raines – 142. Ross Barnes
    Election #24: 143. Max Scherzer – 144. Ron Santo – 145. Lou Whitaker – 146. Bobby Grich – 147. Zack Greinke – 148. Craig Biggio – 149. Whitey Ford – 150. Rafael Palmeiro
    Election #25: 151. Roberto Alomar – 152. Edgar Martinez – 153. Jud Wilson – 154. Fred Clarke – 155. Dick Allen – 156. Scott Rolen – 157. Jim Edmonds – 158. Gary Sheffield
    Election #26: 159. Ryne Sandberg – 160. Kevin Brown – 161. Jesse Burkett – 162. Hal Newhouser – 163. Buck Ewing – 164. Chase Utley – 165. Billy Williams – 166. Mordecai Brown
    Election #27: 167. Dazzy Vance – 168. Goose Goslin – 169. Vladimir Guerrero – 170. Biz Mackey – 171. Jack Glasscock – 172. Willie Stargell – 173. Dave Winfield – 174. Lou Boudreau
    Election #28: 175. Joe Cronin – 176. Joey Votto – 177. Andruw Jones – 178. Bobby Wallace – 179. Stan Coveleski – 180. Monte Irvin – 181. Deacon White – 182. Dobie Moore
    Election #29: 183. Reggie Smith – 184. Joe Mauer – 185. Dennis Eckersley – 186. David Cone – 187. Jim Bunning – 188. Dick Redding – 189. Buck Leonard – 190. Enos Slaughter – 191. Andre Dawson
    Election #30: 192. Larry Doby – 193. Pete Hill – 194. Wes Ferrell – 195. George Wright – 196. Ted Simmons – 197. George Sisler – 198. Luis Tiant – 199. Charlie Keller – 200. Bret Saberhagen
    Election #31: 201. Minnie Minoso – 202. King Kelly – 203. Mule Suttles – 204. Paul Hines – 205. Jim O’Rourke – 206. Amos Rusie – 207. Dwight Evans – 208. Ted Lyons – 209. Rube Waddell
    Election #32: 210. Kenny Lofton – 211. Bill Terry – 212. Joe McGinnity – 213. Ken Boyer – 214. Keith Hernandez – 215. Johan Santana – 216. Joe Start – 217. Buster Posey – 218. Ralph Kiner
    Election #33: 219. Thurman Munson – 220. Don Drysdale – 221. Urban Shocker – 222. Al Spalding – 223. Richie Ashburn – 224. Charley Radbourn – 225. Graig Nettles – 226. John Ward – 227. Hoyt Wilhelm
    Election #34: 228. Jose Mendez – 229. Red Ruffing – 230. Joe Torre – 231. Todd Helton – 232. Zack Wheat – 233. Willie Randolph – 234. Vic Willis – 235. Grant Johnson – 236. Sammy Sosa

    Election #35: 237. Sherry Magee – 238. CC Sabathia – 239. Rick Reuschel – 240. Billy Herman – 241. Jeff Kent – 242. Lance Berkman – 243. Dave Stieb – 244. Elmer Flick – 245. Joe Medwick
    Election #36: 246. Jimmy Collins – 247. Earl Averill – 248. Sal Bando – 249. Max Carey – 250. Rich Gossage – 251. Yadier Molina – 252. Don Sutton – 253. Charlie Bennett – 254. Quincy Trouppe – 255. Buddy Bell

    Election #37: 256. Will Clark – 257. Jim Wynn – 258. Ray Brown – 259. Bobby Doerr – 260. David Ortiz – 261. Hughie Jennings – 262. Bobby Abreu – 263. Wally Schang – 264. Albert Belle – 265. Kirby Puckett
    Election #38: 266. Bobby Bonds – 267. John McGraw – 268. Bob Johnson – 269. Darrell Evans – 270. Early Wynn – 271. Willie Keeler – 272. Dick Lundy – 273. Harry Stovey – 274. Andy Pettitte – 275. Roger Bresnahan
    Election #39: 276. Mookie Betts – 277. Jake Beckley – 278. Tim Hudson – 279. Stan Hack – 280. John Olerud – 281. Willard Brown – 282. Bill Freehan – 283. Dizzy Dean – 284. Clark Griffith – 285. Fred McGriff
    Election #40: 286. Eddie Cicotte – 287. Cole Hamels – 288. Bid McPhee – 289. Joe Tinker – 290. Billy Pierce – 291. Red Faber – 292. Bob Lemon – 293. Dale Murphy – 294. Willie Foster – 295. Cesar Cedeno
    Election #41: 296. Bobby Veach – 297. Cal McVey – 298. Hurley McNair – 299. Sam Thompson – 300. Orel Hershiser – 301. George Gore – 302. Roy Oswalt – 303. Jose Cruz – 304. Kevin Appier – 305. Phil Rizzuto
    Election #42: 306. Evan Longoria – 307. Jim McCormick – 308. Ron Cey – 309. Tommy John – 310. Jason Giambi – 311. Willie Davis – 312. Cool Papa Bell – 313. Babe Adams – 314. Dolf Luque – 315. Russell Martin
    Election #43: 316. Bob Caruthers – 317. David Wright – 318. Frank Grant – 319. Nomar Garciaparra – 320. Brian Giles – 321. Chris Sale – 322. Addie Joss – 323. Dave Bancroft – 324. Tommy Leach – 325. Orlando Cepeda – 326. Joe Sewell

    Election #44: 327. Joe Kelley – 328. Hilton Smith – 329. Jimmy Sheckard – 330. Sam Rice – 331. Lazaro Salazar – 332. Don Newcombe – 333. Bert Campaneris – 334. Pud Galvin – 335. Robin Ventura – 336. Jim Rice – 337. Edd Roush
    Election #45: 338. Bernie Williams – 339. Paul Goldschmidt – 340. Dwight Gooden – 341. Dustin Pedroia – 342. Josh Donaldson – 343. Mark Buehrle – 344. Nellie Fox – 345. Cupid Childs – 346. Billy Wagner – 347. Art Fletcher – 348. Harry Hooper
    Election #46: 349. John Beckwith – 350. Pete Browning – 351. Ben Taylor – 352. Tommy Bond – 353. Tony Perez – 354. Gene Tenace – 355. Tommy Bridges – 356. Bob Elliott – 357. Vern Stephens – 358. Hardy Richardson – 359. Jack Quinn
    Election #47: 360. Perucho Cepeda – 361. Kiki Cuyler – 362. Heinie Groh – 363. Chuck Finley – 364. Chuck Klein – 365. Carlos Delgado – 366. Bucky Walters – 367. Carlos Moran – 368. Tony Mullane – 369. Cliff Lee – 370. Johnny Evers
    Election #48: 371. Tony Oliva – 372. Ian Kinsler – 373. Mark Teixeira – 374. Dave Parker – 375. Felix Hernandez – 376. Eppa Rixey – 377. Chino Smith – 378. Frank Chance – 379. Vada Pinson – 380. Newt Allen – 381. Jack Clark
    Election #49: 382. Heavy Johnson – 383. Norm Cash – 384. Wilbur Cooper – 385. Luis Aparicio – 386. Fred Lynn – 387. Gil Hodges – 388. Chet Lemon – 389. Burleigh Grimes – 390. Ernie Lombardi – 391. Lou Brock – 392. Tony Phillips
    Election #50: 393. Rocky Colavito – 394. Dolph Camilli – 395. Ron Guidry – 396. Jim Fregosi – 397. Jimmy Key – 398. Don Mattingly – 399. Johnny Pesky – 400. Bus Clarkson – 401. Charley Jones – 402. Tony Lazzeri – 403. Brian McCann – 404. Jerry Koosman
    Election #51: 405. Noodles Hahn – 406. Roy White – 407. Elston Howard – 408. Carl Mays – 409. Wally Berger – 410. Charlie Buffinton – 411. Miguel Tejada – 412. George Uhle – 413. Troy Tulowitzki – 414. Nolan Arenado – 415. Jorge Posada – 416. Marvin Williams
    Election #52: 417. Alejandro Oms – 418. Ryan Braun – 419. Darryl Strawberry – 420. Al Rosen – 421. Tommy Henrich – 422. Jacob deGrom – 423. Matt Williams – 424. Lip Pike – 425. Jim Sundberg – 426. Chief Bender – 427. Wilbur Wood – 428. Gavvy Cravath
    Election #53: 429. George Scales – 430. Andrew McCutchen – 431. Hugh Duffy – 432. Hack Wilson – 433. Eddie Rommel – 434. George Foster – 435. Hippo Vaughn – 436. Waite Hoyt – 437. Manny Machado – 438. Mickey Welch – 439. Pie Traynor – 440. Dutch Leonard
    Election #54: 441. Darrell Porter – 442. Lonny Frey – 443. Sam Bannkhead – 444. Nap Rucker – 445. Johnny Damon – 446. Frank Tanana – 447. William Bell – 448. Toby Harrah – 449. David Wells – 450. Jack Fournier – 451. Ben Zobrist – 452. Luis Gonzalez
    Election #55: 453. Jon Lester – 454. Frank Viola – 455. Freddie Freeman – 456. Mark Langston – 457. Adrian Gonzalez – 458. Jason Kendall – 459. Adam Wainwright – 460. Chuck Knoblauch – 461. Jim Kaat – 462. Heinie Manush – 463. Trevor Hoffman – 464. Larry Jackson
    Election #56: 465. Brett Butler – 466. Matt Holliday – 467. Larry Doyle – 468. Dizzy Trout – 469. Gil McDougald – 470. Mickey Lolich – 471. Harry Brecheen – 472. Carlos Zambrano – 473. Ezra Sutton – 474. Fred Dunlap – 475. Willie Wilson – 476. Buddy Myer
    Election #57: 477. Ellis Burks – 478. Lon Warneke – 479. Mike Tiernan – 480. Jose Altuve – 481. Tony Fernandez – 482. Steve Rogers – 483. Lance Parrish – 484. Amos Otis – 485. Travis Jackson – 486. Brian Downing – 487. Dennis Martinez – 488. Jimmy Rollins – 489. Sam McDowell
    Election #58: 490. Giancarlo Stanton – 491. Luke Easter – 492. Vida Blue – 493. Ken Williams – 494. Jim Gilliam – 495. Mel Harder – 496. Webster McDonald – 497. Ned Williamson – 498. Eddie Stanky – 499. Jimmy Ryan – 500. Schoolboy Rowe –501. Hanley Ramirez – 502. Regino Garcia
    Election #59: 503. Earle Combs – 504. Wild Bill Wright – 505. Ray Dandridge – 506. Curtis Granderson – 507. Frank Howard – 508. Jesse Tannehill – 509. Mike Cameron – 510. Jesse Barfield – 511. Lefty Gomez – 512. Rusty Staub – 513. Stephen Strasburg – 514. Anthony Rendon – 515. Jack Morris
    Election #60: 516. Hideki Matsui – 517. Larry Gardner – 518. Eric Davis – 519. Yu Darvish – 520. Rube Foster – 521. Del Pratt – 522. Ken Singleton – 523. George J. Burns – 524. Brandon Webb – 525. Pedro Guerrero – 526. Connie Marrero – 527. Silvio Garcia – 528. Lenny Dykstra
    Election #61: 529. Leon Day – 530. Bryce Harper – 531. Claude Passeau – 532. Roger Maris – 533. Bill Nicholson – 534. George Van Haltren – 535. Javier Vazquez – 536. Cecil Travis – 537. Sam Leever – 538. Brad Radke – 539. Al Oliver – 540. Lave Cross – 541. Herb Pennock
    Election #62: 542. David Price – 543. Lee Smith – 544. Dom DiMaggio – 545. JD Drew – 546. Bill Byrd – 547. Dave Concepcion – 548. Davey Lopes – 549. Maury Wills – 550. Dickey Pearce – 551. Bobby Avila – 552. Anthony Rizzo – 553. Ray Schalk – 554. Andy Van Slyke

    Positional Rankings

    C (39): 33. Josh Gibson – 38. Johnny Bench – 59. Yogi Berra – 63. Mike Piazza – 69. Gary Carter – 89. Carlton Fisk – 96. Bill Dickey – 103. Roy Campanella – 112. Mickey Cochrane – 119. Gabby Hartnett – 128. Louis Santop – 137. Ivan Rodriguez – 163. Buck Ewing – 170. Biz Mackey – 181. Deacon White – 184. Joe Mauer – 196. Ted Simmons – 217. Buster Posey – 219. Thurman Munson – 230. Joe Torre – 251. Yadier Molina – 253. Charlie Bennett – 254. Quincy Trouppe – 263. Wally Schang – 275. Roger Bresnahan – 282. Bill Freehan – 297. Cal McVey – 315. Russell Martin – 354. Gene Tenace – 390. Ernie Lombardi – 403. Brian McCann – 407. Elston Howard – 415. Jorge Posada – 425. Jim Sundberg – 441. Darrell Porter – 458. Jason Kendall – 483. Lance Parrish – 502. Regino Garcia – 553. Ray Schalk
    1B (48): 12. Lou Gehrig – 21. Albert Pujols – 31. Jimmie Foxx – 35. Cap Anson – 46. Dan Brouthers – 49. Johnny Mize – 54. Roger Connor – 56. Jeff Bagwell – 68. Miguel Cabrera – 72. Hank Greenberg – 73. Frank Thomas – 84. Jim Thome – 97. Willie McCovey – 113. Mark McGwire – 131. Eddie Murray – 132. Harmon Killebrew – 150. Rafael Palmeiro – 155. Dick Allen – 176. Joey Votto – 189. Buck Leonard – 197. George Sisler – 203. Mule Suttles – 211. Bill Terry – 214. Keith Hernandez – 216. Joe Start – 231. Todd Helton – 256. Will Clark – 260. David Ortiz – 277. Jake Beckley – 280. John Olerud – 285. Fred McGriff – 310. Jason Giambi – 325. Orlando Cepeda – 339. Paul Goldschmidt – 351. Ben Taylor – 353. Tony Perez – 365. Carlos Delgado – 373. Mark Teixeira – 378. Frank Chance – 383. Norm Cash – 387. Gil Hodges – 394. Dolph Camilli – 398. Don Mattingly – 450. Jack Fournier – 455. Freddie Freeman – 457. Adrian Gonzalez – 491. Luke Easter – 552. Anthony Rizzo
    2B (47): 13. Rogers Hornsby – 22. Eddie Collins – 28. Joe Morgan – 29. Nap Lajoie – 45. Jackie Robinson – 55. Charlie Gehringer – 78. Rod Carew – 109. Frankie Frisch – 123. Joe Gordon – 140. Robinson Cano – 142. Ross Barnes – 145. Lou Whitaker – 146. Bobby Grich – 148. Craig Biggio – 151. Roberto Alomar – 159. Ryne Sandberg –164. Chase Utley – 233. Willie Randolph – 240. Billy Herman – 241. Jeff Kent – 259. Bobby Doerr – 288. Bid McPhee – 318. Frank Grant – 341. Dustin Pedroia – 344. Nellie Fox – 345. Cupid Childs – 358. Hardy Richardson – 370. Johnny Evers – 372. Ian Kinsler – 380. Newt Allen – 392. Tony Phillips – 402. Tony Lazzeri – 416. Marvin Williams – 429. George Scales – 442. Lonny Frey – 451. Ben Zobrist – 460. Chuck Knoblauch – 467. Larry Doyle – 469. Gil McDougald – 474. Fred Dunlap – 476. Buddy Myer – 480. Jose Altuve – 494. Jim Gilliam – 498. Eddie Stanky – 521. Del Pratt – 548. Davey Lopes – 551. Bobby Avila
    3B (42): 20. Mike Schmidt – 32. Eddie Mathews – 40. George Brett – 58. Wade Boggs – 62. Chipper Jones – 87. Adrian Beltre – 129. Paul Molitor – 138. Home Run Baker – 139. Brooks Robinson – 144. Ron Santo – 152. Edgar Martinez – 153. Jud Wilson – 156. Scott Rolen – 213. Ken Boyer – 225. Graig Nettles – 246. Jimmy Collins – 248. Sal Bando – 255. Buddy Bell – 267. John McGraw – 269. Darrell Evans – 279. Stan Hack – 306. Evan Longoria – 308. Ron Cey – 317. David Wright – 324. Tommy Leach – 335. Robin Ventura – 342. Josh Donaldson – 356. Bob Elliott – 362. Heinie Groh – 367. Carlos Moran – 414. Nolan Arenado – 420. Al Rosen – 423. Matt Williams – 437. Manny Machado – 439. Pie Traynor – 448. Toby Harrah – 473. Ezra Sutton – 497. Ned Williamson – 505. Ray Dandridge – 514. Anthony Rendon – 517. Larry Gardner – 540. Lave Cross
    SS (52): 8. Honus Wagner – 14. Alex Rodriguez – 39. Cal Ripken – 53. Pop Lloyd – 71. Arky Vaughan – 82. Willie Wells – 91. George Davis – 93. Luke Appling – 98. Robin Yount – 102. Barry Larkin – 104. Ernie Banks – 111. Derek Jeter – 116. Pee Wee Reese – 125. Bill Dahlen – 130. Ozzie Smith –133. Alan Trammell – 171. Jack Glasscock – 174. Lou Boudreau – 175. Joe Cronin – 178. Bobby Wallace – 182. Dobie Moore – 195. George Wright – 226. John Ward – 235. Grant Johnson – 261. Hughie Jennings – 272. Dick Lundy – 289. Joe Tinker – 305. Phil Rizzuto – 319. Nomar Garciaparra – 323. Dave Bancroft – 326. Joe Sewell – 333. Bert Campaneris – 347. Art Fletcher – 349. John Beckwith – 357. Vern Stephens – 360. Perucho Cepeda – 385. Luis Aparicio – 396. Jim Fregosi – 399. Johnny Pesky – 400. Bus Clarkson – 411. Miguel Tejada – 413. Troy Tulowitzki – 443. Sam Bankhead – 481. Tony Fernandez – 485. Travis Jackson – 488. Jimmy Rollins – 501. Hanley Ramirez – 527. Silvio Garcia – 536. Cecil Travis – 547. Dave Concepcion – 549. Maury Wills – 550. Dickey Pearce
    LF (46): 3. Barry Bonds – 5. Ted Williams – 9. Stan Musial – 24. Rickey Henderson – 42. Carl Yastrzemski – 61. Ed Delahanty – 70. Pete Rose – 81. Manny Ramirez – 106. Al Simmons – 141. Tim Raines – 154. Fred Clarke – 161. Jesse Burkett – 165. Billy Williams – 168. Goose Goslin – 172. Willie Stargell – 180. Monte Irvin – 199. Charlie Keller – 201. Minnie Minoso – 205. Jim O’Rourke – 218. Ralph Kiner – 232. Zack Wheat – 237. Sherry Magee – 242. Lance Berkman – 245. Joe Medwick – 264. Albert Belle – 268. Bob Johnson – 273. Harry Stovey – 296. Bobby Veach – 303. Jose Cruz – 327. Joe Kelley – 329. Jimmy Sheckard – 336. Jim Rice – 391. Lou Brock – 401. Charley Jones – 406. Roy White – 418. Ryan Braun – 434. George Foster – 452. Luis Gonzalez – 462. Heinie Manush – 466. Matt Holliday – 486. Brian Downing – 493. Ken Williams – 507. Frank Howard – 516. Hideki Matsui – 523. George Burns – 525. Pedro Guerrero
    CF (59): 2. Willie Mays – 4. Ty Cobb – 15. Mickey Mantle – 16. Tris Speaker – 19. Joe DiMaggio – 23. Oscar Charleston – 47. Ken Griffey Jr – 51. Mike Trout – 88. Duke Snider – 95. Turkey Stearnes – 115. Cristobal Torriente – 134. Carlos Beltran – 135. Billy Hamilton – 157. Jim Edmonds – 177. Andruw Jones – 191. Andre Dawson – 192. Larry Doby – 193. Pete Hill – 204. Paul Hines – 210. Kenny Lofton – 223. Richie Ashburn – 247. Earl Averill – 249. Max Carey – 257. Jim Wynn – 265. Kirby Puckett – 281. Willard Brown – 293. Dale Murphy – 295. Cesar Cedeno – 301. George Gore – 311. Willie Davis – 312. Cool Papa Bell – 331. Lazaro Salazar – 337. Edd Roush – 338. Bernie Williams – 350. Pete Browning – 379. Vada Pinson – 386. Fred Lynn – 388. Chet Lemon – 409. Wally Berger – 417. Alejandro Oms – 424. Lip Pike – 430. Andrew McCutchen – 431. Hugh Duffy – 432. Hack Wilson – 445. Johnny Damon – 465. Brett Butler – 475. Willie Wilson – 477. Ellis Burks – 484. Amos Otis – 499. Jimmy Ryan – 503. Earle Combs – 506. Curtis Granderson – 509. Mike Cameron – 518. Eric Davis – 528. Lenny Dykstra – 534. George Van Haltren – 539. Al Oliver – 544. Dom DiMaggio – 554. Andy Van Slyke
    RF (53): 1. Babe Ruth – 6. Hank Aaron – 25. Frank Robinson – 27. Mel Ott – 48. Roberto Clemente – 50. Al Kaline – 57. Reggie Jackson – 66. Joe Jackson – 74. Paul Waner – 75. Sam Crawford – 86. Ichiro Suzuki – 94. Harry Heilmann – 107. Tony Gwynn – 120. Larry Walker – 158. Gary Sheffield – 169. Vladimir Guerrero – 173. Dave Winfield – 183. Reggie Smith – 190. Enos Slaughter – 202. King Kelly – 207. Dwight Evans – 236. Sammy Sosa – 244. Elmer Flick – 262. Bobby Abreu – 266. Bobby Bonds – 271. Willie Keeler – 276. Mookie Betts – 298. Hurley McNair – 299. Sam Thompson – 320. Brian Giles – 330. Sam Rice – 348. Harry Hooper – 361. Kiki Cuyler – 364. Chuck Klein – 371. Tony Oliva – 374. Dave Parker – 377. Chino Smith – 381. Jack Clark – 382. Heavy Johnson – 393. Rocky Colavito – 419. Darryl Strawberry – 421. Tommy Henrich – 428. Gavvy Cravath – 479. Mike Tiernan – 490. Giancarlo Stanton – 504. Wild Bill Wright – 510. Jesse Barfield – 512. Rusty Staub – 522. Ken Singleton – 530. Bryce Harper – 532. Roger Maris – 533. Bill Nicholson – 545. JD Drew
    SP (161): 7. Walter Johnson – 10. Roger Clemens – 11. Cy Young – 17. Lefty Grove – 18. Greg Maddux – 26. Pete Alexander – 30. Tom Seaver – 34. Randy Johnson – 36. Christy Mathewson – 37. Satchel Paige – 41. Kid Nichols – 43. Warren Spahn – 44. Pedro Martinez – 52. Bob Gibson – 60. Joe Williams – 64. Steve Carlton – 65. Bob Feller – 67. Clayton Kershaw – 76. Gaylord Perry – 77. Martin Dihigo – 79. Phil Niekro – 80. Eddie Plank – 83. Bert Blyleven – 85. Curt Schilling – 90. Robin Roberts – 92. Mike Mussina – 99. John Clarkson – 100. Fergie Jenkins – 101. Carl Hubbell – 105. Bullet Joe Rogan – 110. Tom Glavine – 114. Sandy Koufax – 117. Juan Marichal – 118. Jim Palmer – 121. Justin Verlander – 122. Tim Keefe – 124. Roy Halladay – 126. Ed Walsh – 127. Nolan Ryan – 136. John Smoltz – 143. Max Scherzer – 147. Zack Greinke – 149. Whitey Ford – 160. Kevin Brown –162. Hal Newhouser – 166. Mordecai Brown – 167. Dazzy Vance – 179. Stan Coveleski – 186. David Cone – 187. Jim Bunning – 188. Dick Redding – 194. Wes Ferrell – 198. Luis Tiant – 200. Bret Saberhagen – 206. Amos Rusie – 208. Ted Lyons – 209. Rube Waddell – 212. Joe McGinnity – 215. Johan Santana – 220. Don Drysdale – 221. Urban Shocker – 222. Al Spalding – 224. Charley Radbourn – 228. Jose Mendez – 229. Red Ruffing – 234. Vic Willis – 238. CC Sabathia – 239. Rick Reuschel – 243. Dave Stieb – 252. Don Sutton – 258. Ray Brown – 270. Early Wynn – 274. Andy Pettitte – 278. Tim Hudson – 283. Dizzy Dean – 284. Clark Griffith – 286. Eddie Cicotte – 287. Cole Hamels – 290. Billy Pierce – 291. Red Faber – 292. Bob Lemon – 294. Willie Foster – 300. Orel Hershiser – 302. Roy Oswalt – 304. Kevin Appier – 307. Jim McCormick – 309. Tommy John – 313. Babe Adams – 314. Dolf Luque – 316. Bob Caruthers – 321. Chris Sale – 322. Addie Joss – 328. Hilton Smith – 332. Don Newcombe – 334. Pud Galvin – 340. Dwight Gooden – 343. Mark Buehrle – 352. Tommy Bond – 355. Tommy Bridges – 359. Jack Quinn – 363. Chuck Finley – 366. Bucky Walters – 368. Tony Mullane – 369. Cliff Lee – 375. Felix Hernandez – 376. Eppa Rixey – 384. Wilbur Cooper – 389. Burleigh Grimes – 395. Ron Guidry – 397. Jimmy Key – 404. Jerry Koosman – 405. Noodles Hahn – 408. Carl Mays – 410. Charlie Buffinton – 412. George Uhle – 422. Jacob deGrom – 426. Chief Bender – 427. Wilbur Wood – 433. Eddie Rommel – 435. Hippo Vaughn – 436. Waite Hoyt – 438. Mickey Welch – 440. Dutch Leonard – 444. Nap Rucker – 446. Frank Tanana – 447. William Bell – 449. David Wells – 453. Jon Lester – 454. Frank Viola – 456. Mark Langston – 459. Adam Wainwright – 461. Jim Kaat – 464. Larry Jackson – 468. Dizzy Trout – 470. Mickey Lolich – 471. Harry Brecheen – 472. Carlos Zambrano – 478. Lon Warneke – 482. Steve Rogers – 487. Dennis Martinez – 489. Sam McDowell – 492. Vida Blue – 495. Mel Harder – 496. Webster McDonald – 500. Schoolboy Rowe – 508. Jess Tannehill – 511. Lefty Gomez – 513. Stephen Strasburg – 515. Jack Morris – 519. Yu Darvish – 520. Rube Foster – 524. Brandon Webb – 526. Connie Marrero – 529. Leon Day – 531. Claude Passeau – 535. Javier Vazquez – 537. Sam Leever – 538. Brad Radke – 541. Herb Pennock – 542. David Price – 546. Bill Byrd
    RP (7): 108. Mariano Rivera – 185. Dennis Eckersley – 227. Hoyt Wilhelm – 250. Rich Gossage – 346. Billy Wagner – 463. Trevor Hoffman – 543. Lee Smith

    Active in 2016+ (55)
    14. Alex Rodriguez – 21. Albert Pujols – 51. Mike Trout – 67. Clayton Kershaw – 68. Miguel Cabrera – 86. Ichiro Suzuki – 87. Adrian Beltre – 121. Justin Verlander – 134. Carlos Beltran – 140. Robinson Cano – 143. Max Scherzer – 147. Zack Greinke – 164. Chase Utley – 176. Joey Votto – 184. Joe Mauer – 217. Buster Posey – 238. CC Sabathia – 251. Yadier Molina – 260. David Ortiz – 276. Mookie Betts – 287. Cole Hamels – 306. Evan Longoria – 315. Russell Martin – 317. David Wright – 321. Chris Sale – 339. Paul Goldschmidt – 341. Dustin Pedroia – 342. John Donaldson – 372. Ian Kinsler – 373. Mark Teixeira – 375. Felix Hernandez – 403. Brian McCann – 413. Troy Tulowitzki – 414. Nolan Arenado – 418. Ryan Braun – 422. Jacob deGrom – 430. Andrew McCutchen – 437. Manny Machado – 451. Ben Zobrist – 453. Jon Lester – 455. Freddie Freeman – 457. Adrian Gonzalez – 459. Adam Wainwright – 466. Matt Holliday – 480. Jose Altuve – 488. Jimmy Rollins – 490. Giancarlo Stanton – 501. Hanley Ramirez – 506. Curtis Granderson – 513. Stephen Strasburg – 514. Anthony Rendon – 519. Yu Darvish – 530. Bryce Harper – 542. David Price – 552. Anthony Rizzo

    Others Not in the Hall of Fame (250)

    3. Barry Bonds – 10. Roger Clemens – 66. Joe Jackson – 70. Pete Rose – 81. Manny Ramirez – 85. Curt Schilling – 113. Mark McGwire – 125. Bill Dahlen – 142. Ross Barnes – 145. Lou Whitaker – 146. Bobby Grich – 150. Rafael Palmeiro – 155. Dick Allen – 156. Scott Rolen – 157. Jim Edmonds – 158. Gary Sheffield – 160. Kevin Brown – 171. Jack Glasscock – 177. Andruw Jones – 182. Dobie Moore – 183. Reggie Smith – 186. David Cone – 188. Dick Redding – 194. Wes Ferrell – 198. Luis Tiant – 199. Charlie Keller – 200. Bret Saberhagen – 201. Minnie Minoso – 204. Paul Hines – 207. Dwight Evans – 210. Kenny Lofton – 213. Ken Boyer – 214. Keith Hernandez – 215. Johan Santana – 216. Joe Start – 219. Thurman Munson – 221. Urban Shocker – 225. Graig Nettles – 231. Todd Helton – 233. Willie Randolph – 235. Grant Johnson – 236. Sammy Sosa – 237. Sherry Magee – 239. Rick Reuschel – 241. Jeff Kent – 242. Lance Berkman – 243. Dave Stieb – 248. Sal Bando – 253. Charlie Bennett – 254. Quincy Trouppe – 255. Buddy Bell – 256. Will Clark – 257. Jim Wynn – 262. Bobby Abreu – 263. Wally Schang – 264. Albert Belle – 266. Bobby Bonds – 268. Bob Johnson – 269. Darrell Evans – 272. Dick Lundy – 273. Harry Stovey – 274. Andy Pettitte – 278. Tim Hudson – 279. Stan Hack – 280. John Olerud – 282. Bill Freehan – 285. Fred McGriff – 286. Eddie Cicotte – 290. Billy Pierce – 293. Dale Murphy – 295. Cesar Cedeno – 296. Bobby Veach – 297. Cal McVey – 298. Hurley McNair – 300. Orel Hershiser – 301. George Gore – 302. Roy Oswalt – 303. Jose Cruz – 304. Kevin Appier – 307. Jim McCormick – 308. Ron Cey – 309. Tommy John – 310. Jason Giambi – 311. Willie Davis – 313. Babe Adams – 314. Dolf Luque – 316. Bob Caruthers – 319. Nomar Garciaparra – 320. Brian Giles – 324. Tommy Leach – 329. Jimmy Sheckard – 331. Lazaro Salazar – 332. Don Newcombe – 333. Bert Campaneris – 335. Robin Ventura – 338. Bernie Williams – 340. Dwight Gooden – 343. Mark Buehrle – 345. Cupid Childs – 346. Billy Wagner – 347. Art Fletcher – 349. John Beckwith – 350. Pete Browning – 352. Tommy Bond – 354. Gene Tenace – 355. Tommy Bridges – 356. Bob Elliott – 357. Vern Stephens – 358. Hardy Richardson – 359. Jack Quinn – 360. Perucho Cepeda – 362. Heinie Groh – 363. Chuck Finley – 365. Carlos Delgado – 366. Bucky Walters – 367. Carlos Moran – 368. Tony Mullane – 369. Cliff Lee – 371. Tony Oliva – 374. Dave Parker – 377. Chino Smith – 379. Vada Pinson – 380. Newt Allen – 381. Jack Clark – 382. Heavy Johnson – 383. Norm Cash – 384. Wilbur Cooper – 386. Fred Lynn – 387. Gil Hodges – 388. Chet Lemon – 392. Tony Phillips – 393. Rocky Colavito – 394. Dolph Camilli – 395. Ron Guidry – 396. Jim Fregosi – 397. Jimmy Key – 398. Don Mattingly – 399. Johnny Pesky – 400. Bus Clarkson – 401. Charley Jones – 404. Jerry Koosman – 405. Noodles Hahn – 406. Roy White – 407. Elston Howard – 408. Carl Mays – 409. Wally Berger – 410. Charlie Buffinton – 411. Miguel Tejada – 412. George Uhle – 415. Jorge Posada – 416. Marvin Williams – 417. Alejandro Oms – 419. Darryl Strawberry – 420. Al Rosen – 421. Tommy Henrich – 423. Matt Williams – 424. Lip Pike – 425. Jim Sundberg – 427. Wilbur Wood – 428. Gavvy Cravath – 429. George Scales – 433. Eddie Rommel – 434. George Foster – 435. Hippo Vaughn – 440. Dutch Leonard – 441. Darrell Porter – 442. Lonny Frey – 443. Sam Bankhead – 444. Nap Rucker – 445. Johnny Damon – 446. Frank Tanana – 447. William Bell – 448. Toby Harrah – 449. David Wells – 450. Jack Fournier – 452. Luis Gonzalez – 454. Frank Viola – 456. Mark Langston – 458. Jason Kendall – 460. Chuck Knoblauch – 461. Jim Kaat – 464. Larry Jackson – 465. Brett Butler – 467. Larry Doyle – 468. Dizzy Trout – 469. Gil McDougald – 470. Mickey Lolich – 471. Harry Brecheen – 472. Carlos Zambrano – 473. Ezra Sutton – 474. Fred Dunlap – 475. Willie Wilson – 476. Buddy Myer – 477. Ellis Burks – 478. Lon Warneke – 479. Mike Tiernan – 481. Tony Fernandez – 482. Steve Rogers – 483. Lance Parrish – 484. Amos Otis – 486. Brian Downing – 487. Dennis Martinez – 489. Sam McDowell – 491. Luke Easter – 492. Vida Blue – 493. Ken Williams – 494. Jim Gilliam – 495. Mel Harder – 496. Webster McDonald – 497. Ned Williamson – 498. Eddie Stanky – 499. Jimmy Ryan – 500. Schoolboy Rowe – 502. Regino Garcia – 504. Wild Bill Wright – 507. Frank Howard – 508. Jesse Tannehill – 509. Mike Cameron – 510. Jesse Barfield – 512. Rusty Staub – 516. Hideki Matsui – 517. Larry Gardner – 518. Eric Davis – 521. Del Pratt – 522. Ken Singleton – 523. George J. Burns – 524. Brandon Webb – 525. Pedro Guerrero – 526. Connie Marrero – 527. Silvio Garcia – 528. Lenny Dykstra – 531. Claude Passeau – 532. Roger Maris – 533. Bill Nicholson – 534. George Van Haltren – 535. Javier Vazquez – 536. Cecil Travis – 537. Sam Leever – 538. Brad Radke – 539. Al Oliver – 540. Lave Cross – 544. Dom DiMaggio – 545. JD Drew – 546. Bill Byrd – 547. Dave Concepcion – 548. Davey Lopes – 549. Maury Wills – 550. Dickey Pearce – 551. Bobby Avila – 554. Andy Van Slyke


    Negro League Rankings (54)

    23. Oscar Charleston – 33. Josh Gibson – 37. Satchel Paige – 53. Pop Lloyd – 60. Joe Williams – 77. Martin Dihigo – 82. Willie Wells – 95. Turkey Stearnes – 105. Bullet Joe Rogan – 115. Cristobal Torriente – 128. Louis Santop – 153. Jud Wilson – 170. Biz Mackey – 180. Monte Irvin – 182. Dobie Moore – 188. Dick Redding – 189. Buck Leonard –193. Pete Hill – 203. Mule Suttles – 228. Jose Mendez – 235. Grant Johnson – 254. Quincy Trouppe – 258. Ray Brown – 272. Dick Lundy – 281. Willard Brown – 294. Willie Foster – 298. Hurley McNair – 312. Cool Papa Bell – 318. Frank Grant – 328. Hilton Smith – 331. Lazaro Salazar – 349. John Beckwith – 351. Ben Taylor – 360. Perucho Cepeda – 367. Carlos Moran – 377. Chino Smith – 380. Newt Allen – 382. Heavy Johnson – 400. Bus Clarkson – 416. Marvin Williams – 417. Alejandro Oms – 429. George Scales – 443. Sam Bankhead – 447. William Bell – 491. Luke Easter – 496. Webster McDonald – 502. Regino Garcia – 504. Wild Bill Wright – 505. Ray Dandridge – 520. Rube Foster – 526. Connie Marrero – 527. Silvio Garcia – 529. Leon Day – 546. Bill Byrd

    19th Century Stars (59)

    11. Cy Young – 35. Cap Anson – 41. Kid Nichols – 46. Dan Brouthers – 54. Roger Connor – 61. Ed Delahanty – 91. George Davis – 99. John Clarkson – 122. Tim Keefe – 125. Bill Dahlen – 135. Billy Hamilton – 142. Ross Barnes – 161. Jesse Burkett – 163. Buck Ewing – 171. Jack Glasscock – 181. Deacon White – 195. George Wright – 202. King Kelly – 204. Paul Hines – 205. Jim O’Rourke – 206. Amos Rusie – 216. Joe Start – 222. Al Spalding – 224. Charley Radbourn – 226. John Ward – 253. Charlie Bennett – 261. Hughie Jennings – 267. John McGraw – 271. Willie Keeler – 273. Harry Stovey – 277. Jake Beckley – 284. Clark Griffith – 288. Bid McPhee – 297. Cal McVey – 299. Sam Thompson – 301. George Gore – 307. Jim McCormick – 316. Bob Caruthers – 318. Frank Grant – 327. Joe Kelley – 334. Pud Galvin – 345. Cupid Childs – 350. Pete Browning – 352. Tommy Bond – 358. Hardy Richardson – 368. Tony Mullane – 401. Charley Jones – 410. Charlie Buffinton – 424. Lip Pike – 431. Hugh Duffy – 438. Mickey Welch – 473. Ezra Sutton – 474. Fred Dunlap – 479. Mike Tiernan – 497. Ned Williamson – 499. Jimmy Ryan – 534. George Van Haltren – 540. Lave Cross – 550. Dickey Pearce

    Hall of Famers Not Yet Listed (21)

    P (7) Jack Chesbro – Catfish Hunter – Andy Cooper – Jesse Haines – Rube Marquard - Rollie Fingers – Bruce Sutter
    C (1) Rick Ferrell
    1B (2) Jim Bottomley – George Kelly
    2B (2) Red Schoendienst – Bill Mazeroski
    3B (3) Judy Johnson – George Kell – Fred Lindstrom
    SS (1) Rabbit Maranville
    LF (1) Chick Hafey
    CF (1) Lloyd Waner
    RF (3) Harold Baines – Ross Youngs – Tommy McCarthy
    Last edited by Freakshow; Yesterday, 06:28 PM.
    Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

    Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.

  • #2
    I'll play.

    Comment


    • #3
      "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
      "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
      "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
      "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

      Comment


      • #4
        I will play

        Comment


        • #5
          I want to make a few comments about this project proposal. Especially regarding what I am aiming for:
          • I designed it so as not to require a moderator. Since it is not dependent on one person to keep it going it can continue in perpetuity, ranking thousands of players until the Gamers are exhausted. It can even lie dormant for a time and be picked right back up by anyone.
          • I tried to make it idiot-proof. Three persons working in concert (or using multiple screen names) can get Dave Kingman on the first ballot. But it would be unlikely for Kong to get enough support to make the top five in the voting. He would likely finish last and be tossed back into the nominating pool. The Gamers could then use the Exclude provision to get rid of the idiot voters.
          Since we have the necessary minimum number of participants, I’ll get the first Nominating thread up today or tomorrow. Again, you don’t need to declare yourself a Gamer; anyone is free to join in at any time with Nominations, 2nds, or 3rds. Just limit yourself to three of these votes in a day.
          Last edited by Freakshow; 09-01-2020, 05:45 PM.
          Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

          Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.

          Comment


          • #6
            Another addition to the rules:
            • As the project goes on, the ballot gets larger and the differences between players becomes minimal. So after we have ranked 150 players, voters will have the option of "quadrant" voting. Rather than exactly ranking every player, a voter can simply divide their ballot into equal groups or quadrants. For example, they could designate "Top Half" and "Bottom Half". Or they can break their ballot into Thirds; or Quarters, or whatever as long as the ballot is split into equal groups.
            • Alternatively, if you are not using quadrant voting, Ties for a position will be allowed after we've ranked 150 players. But only 2-player ties are allowed, although your ballot may have more than one 2-player tie.
            Doing this has minimal effect on the difficulty of the vote tallying. However, it may encourage voters to stick with the project longer, given the difficulty of ranking a 20 or 30-player ballot.

            I wrote an update that hopefully clarifies these rules:

            For Election #25 we’re introducing two options to make voting a little easier:
            • Two-player ties are allowed.
            • Quadrant, or Group, voting may be used.
            -Ties-
            If you’re getting stuck trying to separate two players, don’t sweat it. Just leave them tied for the spot. The points for the spot will be split between them. You may have as many two-player ties on your ballot as you need. Please, no three-player, or four-player, or more-player ties. Those are only allowed if you’re using Quadrant voting.

            -Quadrant voting-
            If you don’t have the time or energy to rank everyone, you may split your ballot into equal groups. On a 16-player ballot you would have three options:
            • Four groups of four players each
            • Eight groups of two players each
            • Two groups of eight players each
            For an 18-player ballot there four options (6x3, 3x6, 9x2, 2x9).

            You do not need to rank players within each group, but you can if you want.

            We still prefer that you cast a ballot with everyone ranked. However, as the project goes on the differences between candidates becomes less and less. If two players are inseparable, just leave them tied. Or if you’re short on time and just want to leave players in general groups, go ahead and cast a quadrant ballot. It’s better than not voting at all.

            I don’t plan on using either of these options anytime soon, but I could eventually get to that point. A decade ago, Paul Wendt would cast ballots using Quadrant voting. So if that works better for you, go for it.

            Last edited by Freakshow; 08-01-2020, 10:05 PM.
            Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

            Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.

            Comment


            • #7
              Apologies if I missed, but do we have a mechanism for handling ties, particularly if it's a split between last in / first out?
              Jacquelyn Eva Marchand (1983-2017)
              http://www.tezakfuneralhome.com/noti...uelyn-Marchand

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Jar of Flies View Post
                Apologies if I missed, but do we have a mechanism for handling ties, particularly if it's a split between last in / first out?
                Nothing about ties has been specified, I'm open to suggestions.

                My first thought is to make the tie-breaker their support in the previous election. If there's still a tie, then the winner should be the smaller standard deviation. Then if there's still a tie, the spot would carryover to the next election.
                Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

                Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Discussion in the Voting threads for the 19th and 20th elections led to the addition of this rule:
                  • An election cannot be nominated to close until at least 72 hours have passed since voting began.
                  • After closing is 3rded, at least 6 hours must pass since the last ballot was cast before election results are posted. The clock does not restart when a ballot is cast after closing is 3rded.
                  • Elections officially close when the results are posted. Until then, voting is still open.
                  Last edited by Freakshow; 09-20-2020, 11:42 AM.
                  Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

                  Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    A minor clarification as to how we're conducting this project. Bringing this here from the Nominating thread for election #57:

                    The number of players dropped back into the Nominating pool after each election is gradually expanding. I don't think I ever made this clear before:

                    10-18 player ballots (elections #1-35) - 1 player dropped
                    20-28 player ballots (elections #36-70) - 2 players dropped
                    30-38 player ballots (elections #71-105) - 3 players dropped
                    40-48 player ballots (elections #106-140) - 4 players dropped
                    50-58 player ballots (elections #141-175) - 5 players dropped

                    And so on. (After election #175 there will be 2,975 players ranked, so we'll see.)
                    Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

                    Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Bringing this statement on Japanese players over from the Nominating thread for election #60:

                      Regarding the exclusion of NPB players in this project, it was not an oversight. It was my intent from the beginning not to include Japan-only players. This is because:
                      • We lacked meaningful data for NPB. The only attempt at MLE's I'd seen were by Jim Albright, and I don't know that he ever made WAR projections for them.
                      • The HOF has not included NPB players. In projects like this we are always comparing our results to the Coop's, so including Japanese stars only clouds these comparisons.
                      • I felt the task facing us was difficult enough without trying to consider NPB players. It would be a distraction from our assessments of the players who are most relevant.
                      I wrote this in the Proposal thread:

                      We’ll consider anyone who could be eligible as a player for the NBHOFM. So all professional players in the United States since 1869. Value in other play such as NABBP, foreign leagues, barnstorming, etc., should be considered, as long as a significant portion of a player’s career value was accrued in professional play in North America.
                      I don't recall anyone raising an issue with this at the time. If you ask me, I'd say a "significant portion" means about four years.

                      It should be clear that Hideki Matsui is eligible, as he played a "significant portion" of his career in MLB. It also says that his play in a "foreign league" should be considered. Eric Chalek is posting MLE's for NPB players and he has Matsui with 62 WAR for his combined career. Yes, he only had two all-star level seasons in his MLB career, but you can see from Albright's translations of Matsui's play from ages 22-28 that he was at all-star or MVP level in all of those seasons. I have sometimes compared his career to slam-dunk HOFer Monte Irvin. He should be on our list.

                      The next project we do I am open to including NPB players. It's not a deal breaker if that's what most people prefer.
                      Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

                      Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.

                      Comment

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