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  • Rank These Third Basemen

    I wanted to get a feel as to how these third basemen rank in your opinion.

    Darrell Evans
    Sal Bando
    Bill Madlock
    Graig Nettles
    Toby Harrah
    Ron Cey
    Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

  • #2
    Nettles
    Evans
    Bando
    Cey
    Harrah
    Madlock

    Nettles and Evans are close. Both are low end HOF for me. Bando and Cey are also close. Bando is a generous HOF HOFer, Cey not quite. Harrah and Madlock had good careers. Bando gets credit for being captain of the Swinging A's, Nettles for his defensive heroics in the 1978 WS.

    Comment


    • #3
      1. Graig Nettles
      2. Darrell Evans
      3. Ron Cey
      4. Bill Madlock
      5. Sal Bando
      6. Toby Harrah

      As PVNICK points out, Evans and Nettles are indeed extremely close. Nettles is arguably the best of them all defensively, so I went with him at the top. I think he's also right about Cey and Bando, but I go with Madlock over Bando if only because I'd rather have him in my lineup.
      Put it in the books.

      Comment


      • #4
        Graig Nettles
        Sal Bando
        Darrell Evans
        Ron Cey
        Bill Madlock
        Toby Harrah

        Evans & Nettles of course had those horrific BA's.

        Comment


        • #5
          1. Graig Nettles
          2. Sal Bando
          3. Darrell Evans
          4. Ron Cey
          5. Toby Harrah
          6. Bil Madlock

          Comment


          • #6
            Six pretty damn good third sackers. Not a huge gap between any of this group.

            Nettles
            Evans
            Madlock
            Bando
            Cey
            Harrah
            3 6 10 21 29 31 35 41 42 44 47

            "To this day, and forever, no one will ever be able to make sense of the game’s record book, now smeared with phony honors. It’s unfixable." - Thomas Boswell

            Comment


            • #7
              1. Sal Bando
              2. Graig Nettles
              3. Ron Cey
              4. Toby Harrah
              5. Darrell Evans
              6. Bill Madlock

              I would pick Bando and Nettles even if I had a smaller pHoF. Cey was a cut below and probably the best-qualified member of those great Dodger infields of the late '70s and early '80s. Harrah's bat, at least, was underrated. Evans doesn't do as well in bWAR or fWAR on a per-season basis, but does much better in WARP. Madlock was a great average hitter, but even there he was known to manipulate the results by sitting out to preserve his numbers towards the end of the season.
              RIP Dave Niehaus
              RIP Gary Moore

              Comment


              • #8
                Nice poll Honus,

                Darrell Evans
                Graig Nettles
                Ron Cey
                Sal Bando
                Toby Harrah
                Bill Madlock
                Jacquelyn Eva Marchand (1983-2017)
                http://www.tezakfuneralhome.com/noti...uelyn-Marchand

                Comment


                • #9
                  Curious, but was Buddy Bell an intentional omission from this group?
                  "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
                  "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
                  "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
                  "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    These two are basically the same rank. Both players would make OK HOFers, although they are bottom of the HOF barrel types. I'll give the edge to Evans. Let's say that his 1973 pushes him to the top.
                    Darrell Evans
                    Graig Nettles

                    Again, two players basically tied. Neither are quite a HOFer, but almost...almost... When push comes to shove, Ron Cey would be my top pick; he didn't really tank the way Bando did his last few seasons.
                    Ron Cey
                    Sal Bando

                    It's a real shame a 4 time batting champ has hardly any shot at the HOF, but here we are...
                    Bill Madlock

                    With some better baserunning than I had assumed and with an excellent walk rate, Harrah still comes in last for me out of this bunch. Chalk it up to me being less impressed with players whose offensive value leans too heavily on their Bases on Balls. Lack of defense probably doesn't help either.
                    Toby Harrah

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by dgarza View Post
                      These two are basically the same rank. Both players would make OK HOFers, although they are bottom of the HOF barrel types. I'll give the edge to Evans. Let's say that his 1973 pushes him to the top.
                      Darrell Evans
                      Graig Nettles

                      Again, two players basically tied. Neither are quite a HOFer, but almost...almost... When push comes to shove, Ron Cey would be my top pick; he didn't really tank the way Bando did his last few seasons.
                      Ron Cey
                      Sal Bando

                      It's a real shame a 4 time batting champ has hardly any shot at the HOF, but here we are...
                      Bill Madlock

                      With some better baserunning than I had assumed and with an excellent walk rate, Harrah still comes in last for me out of this bunch. Chalk it up to me being less impressed with players whose offensive value leans too heavily on their Bases on Balls. Lack of defense probably doesn't help either.
                      Toby Harrah
                      Great post, my only add is that Harrah was able to fake it at SS for 813 games, and gets him clear of Madlock for me.
                      Jacquelyn Eva Marchand (1983-2017)
                      http://www.tezakfuneralhome.com/noti...uelyn-Marchand

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        4 batting titles is very important, and is, (in fact), historic. Batting average and batting titles were much more valued and important in Madlock's day.

                        I think we should be balancing ranking players based on WAR with assessing them on what was valued most in their time and place, and what they were compensated and esteemed for.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Jar of Flies View Post

                          Great post, my only add is that Harrah was able to fake it at SS for 813 games, and gets him clear of Madlock for me.
                          All players with 800+ games at SS in the 1970's:

                          Code:
                          Player         OPS+ Rfield WAR/pos PA
                          Toby Harrah    114   -61.4   31.6 5180
                          Dave Concepcion 93    55.7   30.1 5195
                          Chris Speier    90    23.1   22.2 5240
                          Robin Yount     89   -10.0   14.9 3495
                          Bert Campaneris 86    86.7   36.1 5667
                          Rick Burleson   84    42.1   15.9 3773
                          Bill Russell    84    46.9   19.6 5183
                          Freddie Patek   78    26.3   21.8 5144
                          Bucky Dent      76    35.0   12.1 3418
                          Bud Harrelson   76    27.0   14.8 3648
                          Don Kessinger   76   -42.7    4.5 5532
                          Larry Bowa      72    43.6   19.1 6390
                          Frank Taveras   72   -29.1    4.1 3398
                          Mark Belanger   69   193.5   33.3 4743
                          Frank Duffy     69    49.3   10.4 2924
                          Roger Metzger   68   -34.3    4.1 4645
                          Ed Brinkman     68    30.6    7.3 3123
                          Tim Foli        65    42.9    5.3 4592
                          Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

                          Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Freakshow View Post
                            All players with 800+ games at SS in the 1970's:

                            Code:
                            Player OPS+ Rfield WAR/pos PA
                            Toby Harrah 114 -61.4 31.6 5180
                            Dave Concepcion 93 55.7 30.1 5195
                            Chris Speier 90 23.1 22.2 5240
                            Robin Yount 89 -10.0 14.9 3495
                            Bert Campaneris 86 86.7 36.1 5667
                            Rick Burleson 84 42.1 15.9 3773
                            Bill Russell 84 46.9 19.6 5183
                            Freddie Patek 78 26.3 21.8 5144
                            Bucky Dent 76 35.0 12.1 3418
                            Bud Harrelson 76 27.0 14.8 3648
                            Don Kessinger 76 -42.7 4.5 5532
                            Larry Bowa 72 43.6 19.1 6390
                            Frank Taveras 72 -29.1 4.1 3398
                            Mark Belanger 69 193.5 33.3 4743
                            Frank Duffy 69 49.3 10.4 2924
                            Roger Metzger 68 -34.3 4.1 4645
                            Ed Brinkman 68 30.6 7.3 3123
                            Tim Foli 65 42.9 5.3 4592
                            Interesting.
                            Overall career-wise, I would rank Campaneris over Harrah, and maybe even Concepcion over Harrah. And that's it amoung the non-HOFers in this SS group.

                            Compare that to how he stacks up to players with 800+ games at 3B 1975-1984:
                            Code:
                                                                          
                            Rk              Player OPS+ Rfield WAR/pos   PA
                            1         Mike Schmidt  155  102.6    76.5 6355
                            2         George Brett  145   59.5    60.8 5758
                            3              Ron Cey  126   15.0    42.2 6031
                            4         Bill Madlock  125  -78.0    30.2 5335
                            5          Toby Harrah  120  -55.6    39.2 5899
                            6        Doug DeCinces  119   56.6    35.9 4914
                            7           Buddy Bell  116  148.9    50.9 6015
                            8        Graig Nettles  116   48.2    36.2 5434
                            9        Darrell Evans  115  -17.8    25.8 5739
                            10     Carney Lansford  115  -27.8    19.7 3838
                            11       Larry Parrish  108  -75.6    13.5 5412
                            12         Wayne Gross  105  -18.1    13.3 3413
                            13          Roy Howell   98  -19.4    10.8 4134
                            14         Enos Cabell   95  -38.0    10.7 5398
                            15           Ken Reitz   79  -18.5    -3.1 3940
                            16   Aurelio Rodriguez   72   30.5     3.2 2952
                            Last edited by dgarza; 05-22-2020, 09:15 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Using a simple scoring method where first equals 60 and last equals 10, this is how they pan out thus far after 8 people weigh in (not counting Honus's listing, which I presume was in no particular order):

                              Nettles 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 = 450
                              Evans 2 2 3 3 2 5 1 1 = 370
                              Bando 3 5 2 2 4 1 4 4 = 310
                              Cey 4 3 4 4 5 3 3 3 = 270
                              Madlock 6 4 5 6 3 6 6 5 = 150
                              Harrah 5 6 6 5 6 4 5 6 = 130
                              Put it in the books.

                              Comment

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