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BBF Ranking Game – Election #51 – Nominations

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  • BBF Ranking Game – Election #51 – Nominations

    Welcome to the BBF Ranking Game. Please go to the Proposal thread and review the complete rules for this project.

    Here are the players we ranked in Election #36 through Election #50:


    246. Jimmy Collins – 247. Earl Averill – 248. Sal Bando – 249. Max Carey – 250. Rich Gossage – 251. Yadier Molina – 252. Don Sutton – 253. Charlie Bennett – 254. Quincy Trouppe – 255. Buddy Bell
    256. Will Clark – 257. Jim Wynn – 258. Ray Brown – 259. Bobby Doerr – 260. David Ortiz – 261. Hughie Jennings – 262. Bobby Abreu – 263. Wally Schang – 264. Albert Belle – 265. Kirby Puckett
    266. Bobby Bonds – 267. John McGraw – 268. Bob Johnson – 269. Darrell Evans – 270. Early Wynn – 271. Willie Keeler – 272. Dick Lundy – 273. Harry Stovey – 274. Andy Pettitte – 275. Roger Bresnahan
    276. Mookie Betts – 277. Jake Beckley – 278. Tim Hudson – 279. Stan Hack – 280. John Olerud – 281. Willard Brown – 282. Bill Freehan – 283. Dizzy Dean – 284. Clark Griffith – 285. Fred McGriff
    286. Eddie Cicotte – 287. Cole Hamels – 288. Bid McPhee – 289. Joe Tinker – 290. Billy Pierce – 291. Red Faber – 292. Bob Lemon – 293. Dale Murphy – 294. Willie Foster – 295. Cesar Cedeno
    296. Bobby Veach – 297. Cal McVey – 298. Hurley McNair – 299. Sam Thompson – 300. Orel Hershiser – 301. George Gore – 302. Roy Oswalt – 303. Jose Cruz – 304. Kevin Appier – 305. Phil Rizzuto
    306. Evan Longoria – 307. Jim McCormick – 308. Ron Cey – 309. Tommy John – 310. Jason Giambi – 311. Willie Davis – 312. Cool Papa Bell – 313. Babe Adams – 314. Dolf Luque – 315. Russell Martin
    316. Bob Caruthers – 317. David Wright – 318. Frank Grant – 319. Nomar Garciaparra – 320. Brian Giles – 321. Chris Sale – 322. Addie Joss – 323. Dave Bancroft – 324. Tommy Leach – 325. Orlando Cepeda – 326. Joe Sewell
    327. Joe Kelley – 328. Hilton Smith – 329. Jimmy Sheckard – 330. Sam Rice – 331. Lazaro Salazar – 332. Don Newcombe – 333. Bert Campaneris – 334. Pud Galvin – 335. Robin Ventura – 336. Jim Rice – 337. Edd Roush
    338. Bernie Williams – 339. Paul Goldschmidt – 340. Dwight Gooden – 341. Dustin Pedroia – 342. Josh Donaldson – 343. Mark Buehrle – 344. Nellie Fox – 345. Cupid Childs – 346. Billy Wagner – 347. Art Fletcher – 348. Harry Hooper
    349. John Beckwith – 350. Pete Browning – 351. Ben Taylor – 352. Tommy Bond – 353. Tony Perez – 354. Gene Tenace – 355. Tommy Bridges – 356. Bob Elliott – 357. Vern Stephens – 358. Hardy Richardson – 359. Jack Quinn
    360. Perucho Cepeda – 361. Kiki Cuyler – 362. Heinie Groh – 363. Chuck Finley – 364. Chuck Klein – 365. Carlos Delgado – 366. Bucky Walters – 367. Carlos Moran – 368. Tony Mullane – 369. Cliff Lee – 370. Johnny Evers
    371. Tony Oliva – 372. Ian Kinsler – 373. Mark Teixeira – 374. Dave Parker – 375. Felix Hernandez – 376. Eppa Rixey – 377. Chino Smith – 378. Frank Chance – 379. Vada Pinson – 380. Newt Allen – 381. Jack Clark
    382. Heavy Johnson – 383. Norm Cash – 384. Wilbur Cooper – 385. Luis Aparicio – 386. Fred Lynn – 387. Gil Hodges – 388. Chet Lemon – 389. Burleigh Grimes – 390. Ernie Lombardi – 391. Lou Brock – 392. Tony Phillips
    393. Rocky Colavito – 394. Dolph Camilli – 395. Ron Guidry – 396. Jim Fregosi – 397. Jimmy Key – 398. Don Mattingly – 399. Johnny Pesky – 400. Bus Clarkson – 401. Charley Jones – 402. Tony Lazzeri – 403. Brian McCann – 404. Jerry Koosman

    The ballot will include 24 Players for elections #50 thru 56. So, in this thread we will determine the 14 players who will be added to the ballot, along with the ten carryovers, for the 51st election. Basically, someone nominates a player for inclusion on the ballot, and two other people need to support the nomination for the player to make the ballot. When we get our fourteen guys the nominations are closed for this round. Someone then will start the Voting thread where we will rank the 24 players.

    You should limit yourself to only three Nomination + support votes in a calendar day. To be clear, this does not mean that if you Nominate three players at 11:59 pm that you can then make three more votes two minutes later at 12:01 am. After your third vote in a day wait at least six hours or until midnight ET, whichever comes later. We want to encourage participation from different BBF members.

    It is helpful if someone can post an update after every couple of ballots, as it can be difficult to see the current nominating status of every player. I will try to keep an updated list of the ballot in this post.

    This thread is also for discussion of the players. However, discussion should be in a separate post from your nominate/support votes. But don’t take this too strictly; a brief comment along with your nominate/support vote is fine.

    Please post any questions concerning this project in the Proposal thread. Thanks for playing!

    Nominated in previous election:

    2nds/3rds: Toby Harrah, Joe Nathan, Nolan Arenado, Sam Bankhead, Chief Bender, Charlie Buffinton (3), Earle Combs, Hugh Duffy, Fred Dunlap, Jacob deGrom, Freddie Freeman, Lonny Frey, Elston Howard, Bill Mazeroski, Al Rosen, Ray Schalk, Frank Tanana (3),
    1st: Harold Baines, Gavvy Cravath, Travis Jackson, Noodles Hahn, Manny Machado, Carl Mays, Jack Morris, Lip Pike, Lee Smith, Giancarlo Stanton, Ezra Sutton (1), David Wells, Marvin Williams (2)


    Ballot for Election #51:
    1. Roy White
    2. Jim Sundberg
    3. Jorge Posada
    4. George Uhle
    5. Mickey Welch
    6. Darrell Porter
    7. Dutch Leonard
    8. Pie Traynor
    9. Trevor Hoffman
    10. George Van Haltren
    11. Elston Howard
    12. Nolan Arenado
    13. Carl Mays
    14. Miguel Tejada
    15. Chief Bender
    16. Wally Berger
    17. Charlie Buffinton
    18. Marvin Williams
    19. Hack Wilson
    20. Gavvy Cravath
    21. Noodles Hahn
    22. Troy Tulowitzki
    23. Ezra Sutton
    24. Jacob deGrom
    Last edited by Freakshow; 01-13-2021, 10:31 PM.
    Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

    Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.

  • #2
    Nominate Lip Pike
    Nominate Buzz Arlett
    Nominate Jacob deGrom

    Comment


    • #3
      Nominate Fred Dunlap
      Nominate Al Rosen
      Nominate Nolan Arenado

      Comment


      • #4
        Nominate Carl Mays
        Nominate Hugh Duffy
        Nominate Lee Smith

        Comment


        • #5
          Nominate Elston Howard – Great peak, one of 16 catchers with three 5-WAR years (100 G at C). Racism and military service cost him 2-3 years off the front of his career, deserves MiL credit.
          Nominate Toby Harrah – had 62.5 oWAR. His “most similar” player, by far, is Grich (62.6 oWAR), who is #146. It’s Toby time.
          Nominate Frank Tanana – Frank’s “most similar” player, Koosman, made the list; he’s nearly as good as Tanana. So is Dutch Leonard.
          Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

          Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.

          Comment


          • #6
            Second: Nolan Arenado
            Second: Jacob deGrom
            Nominate: Giancarlo Stanton

            Comment


            • #7
              Second Elston Howard
              Nominate Carl Mays
              Nominate Chief Bender
              “There can be no higher law in journalism than to tell the truth and to shame the devil.” Walter Lippmann

              "How the #### are you supposed to hit that ####?" Mickey Mantle after striking out against Sandy Koufax in the 1963 World Series.

              Comment


              • #8
                Position players (excluding catchers) still on the board, who are among the top 32 at their position in JAWS:
                Po Jaws Player WAR/ WAA/pos OPS+ Rfield
                8 22nd Johnny Damon 56.3 19.4 104 3.3
                7 24th Luis Gonzalez 51.7 19.8 119 90.8
                5 25th Toby Harrah 51.4 22.3 114 -96.3
                8 32nd Ellis Burks 49.8 23.4 126 -31.7
                8 29th Brett Butler 49.7 20.5 110 -84.4
                5 31st Larry Gardner 48.2 18.2 109 44.0
                4 31st Buddy Myer 47.8 19.1 108 -1.0
                6 30th Jimmy Rollins 47.6 18.0 95 42.5
                8 31st Devon White 47.3 21.5 98 133.4
                7 29th Heinie Manush 47.2 16.9 121 -1.0
                6 28th Miguel Tejada 47.1 15.9 108 -47.5
                7 25th Ryan Braun 46.9 24.4 134 -32.0
                7 28th Roy White 46.8 20.4 121 34.7
                5 30th Matt Williams 46.6 22.9 113 90.4
                8 30th Andrew McCutchen 44.8 24.3 134 -68.0
                4 26th Chuck Knoblauch 44.6 20.1 106 26.0
                6 26th Troy Tulowitzki 44.5 27.6 118 98.0
                4 25th Ben Zobrist 44.5 21.4 113 51.0
                7 32nd George Foster 44.2 18.4 126 37.5
                4 32nd Lonny Frey 44.0 22.7 104 57.0
                6 32nd Travis Jackson 43.7 22.4 102 139.0
                Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

                Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.

                Comment


                • #9
                  MLB starting pitchers still on the board, debuting since 1910, who are among the top 130 in JAWS:
                  Jaws Player WAR WAA/pit ERA+ W IP
                  88th Frank Tanana 57.2 19.5 106 240 4188.1
                  75th George Uhle 55.6 15.1 106 200 3119.2
                  124th David Wells 53.5 22.1 108 239 3439.0
                  117th Waite Hoyt 52.2 18.9 112 237 3762.1
                  115th Larry Jackson 52.0 21.2 113 194 3262.2
                  103rd Carl Mays 51.1 16.2 119 207 3021.1
                  121st Kenny Rogers 50.5 19.5 107 219 3302.2
                  110th Jim Kaat 50.5 7.8 108 283 4530.1
                  100th Mark Langston 50.1 23.3 107 179 2962.2
                  86th Wilbur Wood 50.0 26.0 114 164 2684.0
                  116th Eddie Rommel 49.8 25.3 121 171 2557.0
                  114th Dizzy Trout 49.8 24.3 124 170 2725.2
                  119th Mickey Lolich 48.0 16.6 104 217 3638.1
                  129th Bobo Newsom 47.6 19.1 107 211 3759.1
                  113th Frank Viola 47.0 22.1 112 176 2836.1
                  Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

                  Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Freakshow View Post
                    Nominate Elston Howard – Great peak, one of 16 catchers with three 5-WAR years (100 G at C). Racism and military service cost him 2-3 years off the front of his career, deserves MiL credit.
                    Nominate Toby Harrah – had 62.5 oWAR. His “most similar” player, by far, is Grich (62.6 oWAR), who is #146. It’s Toby time.
                    Nominate Frank Tanana – Frank’s “most similar” player, Koosman, made the list; he’s nearly as good as Tanana. So is Dutch Leonard.
                    Harrah has good offensive numbers. That -96.3 rfield is pretty bad, though.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Nominate: Ray Schalk, Jack Morris
                      Second: Chief Bender

                      HOFers remaining: Baines 4, Bender 3, Combs 4, Duffy 4, Kaat 4, Mazeroski 4, Morris 3, Schalk 3, Traynor 3, Van Haltren 3, Welch 2


                      Originally posted by jjpm74 View Post

                      Harrah has good offensive numbers. That -96.3 rfield is pretty bad, though.
                      Interesting fact about the GREAT Toby Harrah...he never hit 30 doubles in a season (high of 29). His second high was 25 (reached twice). He hit 25 or more homers twice. I wonder how many legendary hitters such as Harrah were only able to reach 25 doubles or homers five times in careers when 154/162 games were the norm? Especially with such exquisite defense played.

                      Bah, I am convinced he wasn't one of the top 1000 players of all time, only a mediocre player who happened to play forever on poor to terrible teams. He was just a guy lying around who the teams used because they couldn't replace him with better players.

                      His skills: C to C+ player who happened to stick around. He could walk for 2/3 his career, ran at a B level, and stayed healthy. Everything else was average to horrid.


                      Originally posted by Freakshow View Post
                      Nominate Elston Howard – Great peak, one of 16 catchers with three 5-WAR years (100 G at C). Racism and military service cost him 2-3 years off the front of his career, deserves MiL credit.
                      Nominate Toby Harrah – had 62.5 oWAR. His “most similar” player, by far, is Grich (62.6 oWAR), who is #146. It’s Toby time.
                      Nominate Frank Tanana – Frank’s “most similar” player, Koosman, made the list; he’s nearly as good as Tanana. So is Dutch Leonard.
                      I'm no Grich guy, but at least he was a good to very good player. Somehow it seems inappropriate to link him with Harrah - Grich was both a better hitter and a much better fielder. I'd be distraught (if I was Grich) to be compared to Harrah in anything except who had the better mustache!



                      I've been thinking on this longer and longer....was my Harrah top 1000-statement hyperbole? No, I don't think so. I'm normally not a "peak" voter, but at least the peak guys have that in advantage over Harrah.
                      Last edited by Toledo Inquisition; 01-12-2021, 10:39 AM.
                      Wait until Tommy meets the Lord and finds out he's wearing pinstripes - Gaylord Perry speaking of Tommy Lasorda
                      Play the Who am I? game in trivia and you can make this signature line yours for 3 days (baseball signatures only!)

                      Go here for a link to all player links! http://www.baseball-fever.com/forum/...player-threads

                      Go here for all your 1920's/1930's OF info

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        UPDATE:

                        1st: Miguel Tejada
                        1st: Jon Lester
                        1st: Andrew McCutchen

                        2nd: Nolan Arenado, Chief Bender, Jacob deGrom, Elston Howard, Carl Mays
                        1st: Buzz Arlett, Fred Dunlap, Hugh Duffy, Toby Harrah, Jon Lester, Andrew McCutchen, Jack Morris, Lip Pike, Al Rosen, Ray Schalk, Lee Smith, Giancarlo Stanton, Frank Tanana, Miguel Tejada,
                        Jacquelyn Eva Marchand (1983-2017)
                        http://www.tezakfuneralhome.com/noti...uelyn-Marchand

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Jar of Flies View Post
                          UPDATE:

                          1st: Miguel Tejada
                          1st: Jon Lester
                          1st: Andrew McCutchen

                          2nd: Nolan Arenado, Chief Bender, Jacob deGrom, Elston Howard, Carl Mays
                          1st: Buzz Arlett, Fred Dunlap, Hugh Duffy, Toby Harrah, Jon Lester, Andrew McCutchen, Jack Morris, Lip Pike, Al Rosen, Ray Schalk, Lee Smith, Giancarlo Stanton, Frank Tanana, Miguel Tejada,
                          I keep forgetting Tejada and Duffy haven't been ranked yet. Both seem overdue at this point.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I didn't realize this until I was re-evaluating some players over the weekend.

                            Not only was Chief Bender a great starting pitcher, but in 1913 he lead the league with 13 Saves (retro), which tied the all-time seasonal record with Mordecai Brown, who was awarded 13 Saves just 2 years prior. They both co-held that record for an entire decade+ (1913-1923). Bender also was the active leader in total Saves in 4 different years. This new relief work information (new to me), bumps him up some for me.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by dgarza View Post
                              I didn't realize this until I was re-evaluating some players over the weekend.

                              Not only was Chief Bender a great starting pitcher, but in 1913 he lead the league with 13 Saves (retro), which tied the all-time seasonal record with Mordecai Brown, who was awarded 13 Saves just 2 years prior. They both co-held that record for an entire decade+ (1913-1923). Bender also was the active leader in total Saves in 4 different years. This new relief work information (new to me), bumps him up some for me.
                              He's creeping up for me, he may be due some MLE credit at the end of his career as well, he was very good in his last MLB season at age 33, then became a player/manager (more lucrative financially in that time frame?) and was excellent for a few years after, did he suffer an injury at 34?
                              Last edited by Jar of Flies; 01-12-2021, 11:05 AM. Reason: improper grammar : )
                              Jacquelyn Eva Marchand (1983-2017)
                              http://www.tezakfuneralhome.com/noti...uelyn-Marchand

                              Comment

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