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  • #31
    Originally posted by Sultan_1895-1948
    Forgive Babe for his own wife going to talk with Babe and Claire? The question is; did he ever forgive himself for over-reacting.

    The hug was a great start, but because of Lou's passing, the patchwork could only go so far.
    Here you go...
    Attached Files
    Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Sultan_1895-1948
      Myankee, just don't go there. Claire was in the cabin, period. Nothing went on. Gehrig was simply jealous that he found he in there.
      Gehrig's wife was a bit of a party girl before she was married. I'm not going to speculate whether she and Babe Ruth had a affair, but I will speculate and say that I find it easy to believe that Gehrig may have thought they had an affair. To me, Babe Ruth does not sound like the kind of guy who would weigh the consequences of sleeping with someones wife, even a teammate's.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by wamby
        Gehrig's wife was a bit of a party girl before she was married. I'm not going to speculate whether she and Babe Ruth had a affair, but I will speculate and say that I find it easy to believe that Gehrig may have thought they had an affair. To me, Babe Ruth does not sound like the kind of guy who would weigh the consequences of sleeping with someones wife, even a teammate's.
        Guys. You're just plain wrong on this one. Eleanor Gehrig would NEVER have considered that. Babe would NEVER have done THAT! Claire was there. You guys are whistling Dixie on this one. Just pissin' in the wind.

        Bill Burgess

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        • #34
          Originally posted by [email protected]
          Guys. You're just plain wrong on this one. Eleanor Gehrig would NEVER have considered that. Babe would NEVER have done THAT! Claire was there. You guys are whistling Dixie on this one. Just pissin' in the wind.

          Bill Burgess
          I think the whole thing boils down to what Gehrig believed. I don't have much problem thinking that Gehrig could have thought that Babe acted innaproriately with his wife. The Mom Gehrig story always sounded silly to me.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules
            Here you go...
            In this photo and the two others you usually see with it, I just don't see much enthusiasm on Gehrig's face. He was obviously more reserved than Babe, but, still...the man just looks to me like he's uncomfortable and is just tolerating the Babe's attentions, but not enjoying them.
            Maybe I'm a cynic, but I have the strong impression that Lou was still holding a grudge. Perhaps somebody with more detailed knowledge can correct me?
            "I throw him four wide ones, then try to pick him off first base." - Preacher Roe on pitching to Musial

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            • #36
              Originally posted by hellborn
              In this photo and the two others you usually see with it, I just don't see much enthusiasm on Gehrig's face. He was obviously more reserved than Babe, but, still...the man just looks to me like he's uncomfortable and is just tolerating the Babe's attentions, but not enjoying them.
              Maybe I'm a cynic, but I have the strong impression that Lou was still holding a grudge. Perhaps somebody with more detailed knowledge can correct me?
              It's possible that Gehrig may not have been physically able to hug the Babe, it's also possible that he hugged the Babe after the picture was taken, it's also possible that Gehrig may have thought Babe was mugging for the cameras and wanted nothing to do with that. It's also very possible that Gehrig was holding a grudge.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by wamby
                It's possible that Gehrig may not have been physically able to hug the Babe, it's also possible that he hugged the Babe after the picture was taken, it's also possible that Gehrig may have thought Babe was mugging for the cameras and wanted nothing to do with that. It's also very possible that Gehrig was holding a grudge.
                I am thinking that Wamby might have something there. Lou at this point ain't feeling 100 percent for sure. And -its happened to all of us- sometimes the camera just catches you between smiles.
                Johnny
                Delusion, Life's Coping Mechanism

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by [email protected]
                  Guys. You're just plain wrong on this one. Eleanor Gehrig would NEVER have considered that. Babe would NEVER have done THAT! Claire was there. You guys are whistling Dixie on this one. Just pissin' in the wind.

                  Bill Burgess

                  Who said Claire was just a spectator?

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by wamby
                    Gehrig's wife was a bit of a party girl before she was married. I'm not going to speculate whether she and Babe Ruth had a affair, but I will speculate and say that I find it easy to believe that Gehrig may have thought they had an affair. To me, Babe Ruth does not sound like the kind of guy who would weigh the consequences of sleeping with someones wife, even a teammate's.
                    Wamby, I respect your views on here, and everyone is entitled to their opinion, but you're going way overboard on this one. I'll be the first to say that Babe was a ladies man, nobody can deny that. Multiple women in his room before games on a regular basis, going to a St. Louis brothel and bedding every chick there, etc, etc; but the reach you're making; the unthinkable act you're insinuating...Just didn't happen. Even Babe would not go across that line.

                    There's no sugarcoating going on, in fact here's a story that happened during the '20's, courtesty of "Launching the Legend." He was by no means perfect, but that act you speak of is unimaginable even by Babe's standards.

                    "One day, while the Yankees were in Philadelphia, Pennock was asked to attend a formal party in nearby Wilmington, Delaware, and asked Ruth, Joe Dugan, and Meusel to attend. The players were game, and so was Huggins, provided they get back in time for a good night's rest before the next day's game at Shibe Park.

                    The baseball talk flowed freely with the alcohol, and after a couple of hours, Ruth set his roving eye on one of the women, a maid.

                    "Babe," said the boxing promoter who had arranged for the visit of the players, "you've got to get out of here."

                    "Not without that broad." Ruth said.

                    "Come on," the promoter reasoned. "I'll get you broads in Philly better than her."

                    "You sure?" Ruth said.

                    The boxing promoter kept his word, and took Ruth to a whorehouse. Hours and hours later as the sun rose over Philadelphia, the promoter, thinking about the Yankee game later that afternoon, reckoned that Ruth should return to the team's hotel.

                    Sitting in a lounge chair with a woman on each knee and an open bottle of champagne upside down on his head, Ruth thought it over. "I ain't gonna be leaving for a while yet," he said.

                    That afternoon at Shibe Park, Ruth pronounced himself ready to take on the A's.

                    "I feel good," said Ruth, who had probably not slept.

                    "You don't look so good," said Fred Merkle, a longtime Giant finishing his career with the Yankees.

                    "I'll hit one," said Ruth.

                    "Bet?" Merkle said.

                    "A hundred," said Ruth.

                    "Wait a minute," said Merkle. " This is an easy ballpark."

                    "All right," said Ruth. "I'll give you two-to-one odds."

                    In his first at-bat, Ruth cracked one into the left-field stands and won the bet. Next time up, he tripled to right. Later he tripled again, driving a ball over Al Simmons's head in center. And in his fourth at-bat, he homered again, finishing the day four for four."

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by wamby
                      It's possible that Gehrig may not have been physically able to hug the Babe, it's also possible that he hugged the Babe after the picture was taken, it's also possible that Gehrig may have thought Babe was mugging for the cameras and wanted nothing to do with that. It's also very possible that Gehrig was holding a grudge.
                      No matter who hugged him in that situation, I can't see Gehrig openly hugging right back. He wasn't that kind of guy, and he wasn't in that kind of condition. Babe was more playfully choking/hugging him than anything, and we don't know where Lou's left arm is. If anyone has a wide shot that would be nice, but it's possible his left arm is wrapped around Babe.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Sultan_1895-1948
                        Wamby, I respect your views on here, and everyone is entitled to their opinion, but you're going way overboard on this one. I'll be the first to say that Babe was a ladies man, nobody can deny that. Multiple women in his room before games on a regular basis, going to a St. Louis brothel and bedding every chick there, etc, etc; but the reach you're making; the unthinkable act you're insinuating...Just didn't happen. Even Babe would not go across that line.

                        There's no sugarcoating going on, in fact here's a story that happened during the '20's, courtesty of "Launching the Legend." He was by no means perfect, but that act you speak of is unimaginable even by Babe's standards.

                        ."
                        I don't think what or what didn't really happen is the issue. I think the issue is what Gehrig thought might have happened. Gehrig had to have known that his wife liked to have a few drinks and that she was having a few with the Babe who was known for sexual prowess and not known for impulse control.

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                        • #42
                          --I don't know what happened in that stateroom (or on other occasions, who knows), but to say it is inconceivable that Ruth would have slept with a teammates wife IS giving him character points that he doesn't deserve. Ruth was willing to screw anybody, any time. If he would cheat on his own wife, which he did hundreds (thousands?) of times, why would he hesitate to sleep with anybody elses. For sure, it is not unlikely that Gehrig would have thought the worst after finding his wife drunk in a man like Ruth's room. It is a more logical reason for a bitter fued than the foolish Mom Gehrig story (not that I doubt that story is true, just that grown men tend to laugh that sort of nonsense off).
                          --I don't know about Claire Ruth's sexual proclivities, but having two women in the room wouldn't be a deterent to the Babe. You think he never had two women share his bed? And Bill, you really think that Eleanor Gehrig not writing about an affair with Ruth means it didn't happen? Very unlikely she would be including something like that regardless of whether it happened.

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                          • #43
                            I think that in order to get a true appreciation of this kind of thing, one really needs to read, at a minimum, 3 books. The ones by Eleanor Gehrig, Claire and Dorothy Ruth.

                            In the book by Eleanor, you get the impression that the reason Gehrig got so pissed at her was that she knew perfectly well that he (Lou) was not on speaking terms with the Ruths, and he didn't want her even LOOKING, or CHATTING with them, let alone get drunk with them in their private cabin.

                            From the Dorothy book, you come to realize that Claire was insanely jealous of any other woman. She was as likely to engage in a manage-a-trois, as she was about to slit her own throat.

                            Also, you get the impression that it was Claire who provoked Babe to confront Lou about the Mom Gehrig thing in the first place. Babe wouldn't have given a damn. And Dorothy definitely says that Claire didn't even want Babe to talk to Lou on the Lou Gehrig day. And she opposed Babe visiting Lou after that.

                            Another incident from the Dorothy book. After 1937, Babe took a girlfriend, and spent long periods each year with her in Greenwood Lake, a resort area on the NY/NJ border, about 50 miles NW of NYC, in Orange County, NY. Loretta was a tall redhead, and many folks came to accept them as a couple there. They were together, 1937-48.

                            Bill
                            Last edited by Bill Burgess; 02-26-2006, 09:38 AM.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by [email protected]
                              I think that in order to get a true appreciation of this kind of thing, one really needs to read, at a minimum, 3 books. The ones by Eleanor Gehrig, Claire and Dorothy Ruth.
                              Those are all great books and do give depth to the discussion. Eleanor did have a past (presumably with ballplayers who were not shackled by that double standard), something may not have happened in that room ie the only thing occuring was cavier/champagne, and Lou overreacted. Not so much cause anything did occur but because he knew it would be something talked about as if it did occur. Locker room talk can be very unfair. Lou had a lot of pride -how'd you think he got the nickname 'Pride of the Yankees' - and wanted to protect the reputation of his wife. Not only for her sake but also since it reflected upon him-especially in the world he traveled. Ma Gehrig had ears and may have heard 'stories' about Eleanor's past from the other ballplayers either directly or indirectly. Lou was also probably worried that Ma would hear about it and he would have to listen to that.

                              Do I blame Eleanor? Nope. Do I think she was a 'swinger' that day? Heck no. Truth be told, she probably was a little bored on that slow boat to Japan and who among us would turn down an opportunity to spend a few hours with the Ruths'/cavier/champagne? Her mistake was in not calling Lou to come up and they all could had a great time enjoying each other's company as good friends often do.
                              Last edited by Bill Burgess; 02-26-2006, 10:51 AM.
                              Johnny
                              Delusion, Life's Coping Mechanism

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                --None of those 3 women had any reason to tell the truth about any sex that might have occured in that cabin (or elsewhere) and Dorthy would have had no reason to know the truth. Personally, I don't care what happened. The sex lives of ballplayers don't interest me that much.
                                -- From everything I know about Ruth he COULD have slept with a teammate's wife (Gehrig or anybody elses) and from what I know of Gehrig he COULD have been jealous over the incident and harbored a grudge over it even if nothign more than drinking and talking actually took place. Ruth was decidedly amoral and Gehrig had issues with insecurity and jealousy. A bad combination under the circumstances.

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