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  • #46
    Originally posted by johnny
    Do I blame Eleanor? Nope. Do I think she was a 'swinger' that day? Heck no. Truth be told, she probably was a little bored on that slow boat to Japan and who among us would turn down an opportunity to spend a few hours with the Ruths'/cavier/champagne? Her mistake was in not calling Lou to come up and they all could had a great time enjoying each other's company as good friends often do.
    Oh how so true, johnny! She probably regretted not doing just that for a long time. And who knows? Maybe if she had done so, and been her persuasive best, with a lot of sugar on top of it, she may have gotten Lou to melt a little and ended all the silliness right that day.

    I think it was obvious that Babe didn't really want to continue the "feud". I read where he once tried to approach Lou but Lou shrugged him off. I think it was Claire's hurt ego, which held Babe back. Dorothy definitely believed that, too. Babe was somehow emotionally unable to cross Claire. She definitely bore the pants in the Ruth house.

    Great insight, johnnyboy!!

    Bill Burgess

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    • #47
      --She may have worn the pants, but that didn't keep the Babe's on when he was out of sight .

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      • #48
        Originally posted by leecemark
        --None of those 3 women had any reason to tell the truth about any sex that might have occurred in that cabin (or elsewhere) and Dorthy would have had no reason to know the truth. Personally, I don't care what happened. The sex lives of ballplayers don't interest me that much.
        -- From everything I know about Ruth he COULD have slept with a teammate's wife (Gehrig or anybody else's) and from what I know of Gehrig he COULD have been jealous over the incident and harbored a grudge over it even if nothing more than drinking and talking actually took place. Ruth was decidedly amoral and Gehrig had issues with insecurity and jealousy. A bad combination under the circumstances.
        While all you surmised was the truth, and I can't disagree with it, I must take issue with one hypothetical.

        From everything I've ever read about the Babe, he was immoral in many ways, and did sleep with a lot of married ladies, but I just can't believe that he would have done that to Lou Gehrig, his former great buddy. He sincerely liked Lou, and didn't really want to keep the estrangement going.

        I strongly feel he only did so because he was so sincerely whipped by Claire, if you know what I mean. But under all the whoring around he did, I just don't think he would have been emotionally capable of crossing such an obviously clear line, between right and wrong.

        It's one thing to bed anomalous women, who you'll likely never see again. But to the new wife of such a close former friend? From all I know of Babe, he had an underlying decency, that would have stopped him from going that far. I know he wasn't too careful with strangers, but I sincerely believe that even the Babe would have placed Eleanor (Twitchell) Gehrig off limits.

        And if he wouldn't have, Claire would have been arrested that day, if Babe had wavered in his conscience.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by leecemark
          --She may have worn the pants, but that didn't keep the Babe's on when he was out of sight .
          Oh so true.

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          • #50
            How Mark sees Babe....h
            Attached Files

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            • #51
              Here's a quote from long ago. When I think of Lou, I often think of this quote.

              It was written by John Kieran in his sports column, "Sports of the Times", for the New York Times in 1935.

              "Certainly Hal Chase was the greater fielder. But Buster Lou could hit rings around him. Sisler was a a grand hitter and the most graceful of modern fielders around the bag. Bill Terry belongs close to the top. But Hard Rock Gehrig is in there day after day, year after year, as strong as an ox and as broad as a barn, banging out base hits and letting very little escape him around the bag."

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              • #52
                the speech!!!!!!!!

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by [email protected]
                  Here's a quote from long ago. When I think of Lou, I often think of this quote.

                  It was written by John Kieran in his sports column, "Sports of the Times", for the New York Times in 1935.

                  "Certainly Hal Chase was the greater fielder. But Buster Lou could hit rings around him. Sisler was a a grand hitter and the most graceful of modern fielders around the bag. Bill Terry belongs close to the top. But Hard Rock Gehrig is in there day after day, year after year, as strong as an ox and as broad as a barn, banging out base hits and letting very little escape him around the bag."
                  Bill
                  Just a quick question. Didn't Ruth name Chase and not Lou G. to his alltime lineup? I can't recall the situation, but I could swear that Ruth was putting out his all time greatest lineup and went with Hal instead of Lou.
                  Johnny
                  Delusion, Life's Coping Mechanism

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by johnny
                    Just a quick question. Didn't Ruth name Chase and not Lou G. to his alltime lineup? I can't recall the situation, but I could swear that Ruth was putting out his all time greatest lineup and went with Hal instead of Lou.
                    That would be correct. Babe named his all time team for the Associated Press, Jan. 24, 1931, 2 full years before his "feud" with Lou.

                    Bill Burgess

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by johnny
                      Bill
                      Just a quick question. Didn't Ruth name Chase and not Lou G. to his alltime lineup? I can't recall the situation, but I could swear that Ruth was putting out his all time greatest lineup and went with Hal instead of Lou.
                      If I recall, he did give honorable mention to Lou, but did name Chase. Ironically, for such an offensive minded force, Babe seemed to value defense when picking his All Time team.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Sultan_1895-1948
                        If I recall, he did give honorable mention to Lou, but did name Chase. Ironically, for such an offensive minded force, Babe seemed to value defense when picking his All Time team.
                        One has to understand the context of when Babe chose his team. Bob Shawkey had managed the Yanks for 1930, and Babe was lobbying & stumping for the job in January, 1931.

                        Babe was trying his damnest to show his Barrow/Ruppert that he knew the intricacies of the old game as well as anyone else alive. He went with Chase, Lajoie, Wagner, J. Collins, Joe Jackson, Cobb, H. Hooper, Schalk, Matty, Plank and Pennock.

                        A true old school, defensive, running squad. He was trying his best to send a signal to Barrow boy that his instincts/intuition were razor sharp. He thought he was as sharp as Seele, Stallings, Huggins, Gleason, Hanlon, etc. And he didn't want anyone to miss the point.

                        If he had selected Gehrig, Foxx, Hornsby, or sluggers, he feared everyone would have written him off as a guy who needed sluggers to cover up all the holes in your game. He didn't want to send that particular message. Whoever said Babe wasn't smart, foxy, and cunning?

                        Bill
                        Last edited by Bill Burgess; 03-01-2006, 08:05 PM.

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                        • #57
                          --Picking Chase, Hooper, etc is not the best way to show your baseball smarts. Thinking a banjo hitter like Chase would be better to have at 1B than Lou Gehrig would be enough, all by itself, for me to disqualify a man from being my manager.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by leecemark
                            --Picking Chase, Hooper, etc is not the best way to show your baseball smarts. Thinking a banjo hitter like Chase would be better to have at 1B than Lou Gehrig would be enough, all by itself, for me to disqualify a man from being my manager.
                            Picking a guy with Chase's reputation wasn't too wise either.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by [email protected]
                              One has to understand the context of when Babe chose his team. Bob Shawkey had managed the Yanks for 1930, and Babe was lobbying & stumping for the job in January, 1931.
                              That's a good point; never thought of it that way. I knew it was strange if not ironic, but the reason is clear now. Thanks.
                              Last edited by Bill Burgess; 03-01-2006, 08:11 PM.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by leecemark
                                --Picking Chase, Hooper, etc is not the best way to show your baseball smarts. Thinking a banjo hitter like Chase would be better to have at 1B than Lou Gehrig would be enough, all by itself, for me to disqualify a man from being my manager.
                                Chase was the first coming of Keith Hernandez defensively, but yes, he stepped up to the plate holding a wet noodle for sure.

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