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My 100 greatest rightfielders

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  • My 100 greatest rightfielders

    1. Babe Ruth
    2. Hank Aaron
    3. Stan Musial
    4. Mel Ott
    5. Frank Robinson
    6. Roberto Clemente
    7. Al Kaline
    8. Larry Walker
    9. Harry Heilmann
    10. Sam Crawford
    11. Paul Waner
    12. Reggie Jackson
    13. Shoeless Joe Jackson
    14. Reggie Smith
    15. Tony Gwynn
    16. Dwight Evans
    17. Bobby Abreu
    18. Gary Sheffield
    19. Ichiro Suzuki
    20. Dave Winfield
    21. Elmer Flick
    22. Bobby Bonds
    23. Vladimir Guerrero
    24. Brian Giles
    25. Jack Clark
    26. Willie Keeler
    27. Sammy Sosa
    28. Enos Slaughter
    29. Harry Hooper
    30. Sam Rice
    31. Mookie Betts
    32. Giancarlo Stanton
    33. King Kelly
    34. Sam Thompson
    35. J.D. Drew
    36. Mike Tiernan
    37. Darryl Strawberry
    38. Chuck Klein
    39. Tony Oliva
    40. Kiki Cuyler
    41. David Justice
    42. Bill Nicholson
    43. Tim Salmon
    44. Rocky Colavito
    45. Dixie Walker
    46. Nelson Cruz
    47. Jose Canseco
    48. Felipe Alou
    49. Ken Singleton
    50. Dave Parker
    51. Rusty Staub
    52. Tommy Henrich
    53. Bryce Harper
    54. Jesse Barfield
    55. Roy Cullenbine
    56. Gavvy Cravath
    57. Tommy Holmes
    58. Ross Youngs
    59. Jason Heyward
    60. Roger Maris
    61. Babe Herman
    62. Kirk Gibson
    63. Juan Gonzalez
    64. Brian Jordon
    65. Reggie Sanders
    66. Bob Allison
    67. John Titus
    68. Magglio Ordonez
    69. Shin Soo Choo
    70. Jose Bautista
    71. Johnny Callison
    72. Carl Furillo
    73. Paul O'Neil
    74. Wally Moses
    75. Hunter Pence
    76. Shawn Green
    77. Ken Griffey
    78. Nick Markakis
    79. Harold Baines
    80. Aaron Judge
    81. George Springer
    82. George Selkirk
    83. Branch Russell
    84. Socks Seybold
    85. Danny Green
    86. Ival Goodman
    87. J.D. Martinez
    88. Oyster Burns
    89. Sixto Lezcano
    90. Buck Freeman
    91. Bake McBride
    92. Bob Meusel
    93. Von Hayes
    94. Merv Rettenmund
    95. Trot Nixon
    96. Jackie Jensen
    97. Josh Reddick
    98. Pepper Martin
    99. Billy Southworth
    100. Carl Reynolds

    Notable players that failed to make the list: Bing Miller, Elmer Valo, Vic Wertz, Frank Shulte, Tom Brunansky, Jermaine Dye, Alex Rios, Jack Tobin, Raul Mondesi, Jayson Werth, Terry Puhl, Hank Bauer, Oscar Gamble, Nick Swisher, Al Smith
    My dream ballpark dimensions
    LF: 388 Feet...Height 37 Feet...LCF: 455 Feet...CF: 542 Feet...Height 35 Feet
    RCF: 471 Feet...RF: 400 Feet...Height 60 Feet
    Location....San Diego

  • #2
    Not at all a big deal, but Musial probably should be in the left fielder group. As is well known, he was one of the multi-position players, so it's a bit complicated. But, he played about 2/3rds of his games as an outfielder, 1/3rd at first base, so he's rightfully listed as an outfielder. He played more games and more innings in left than right, with a good sprinkling of center field in there. In 1943, his first MVP season, he was a rightfielder. In 1946 he was a first baseman! In 1948 he was a centerfielder, leftfielder, and rightfielder!! I remember him mainly as a leftfielder and first baseman. He had moved to first in the mid-50s, when I started following baseball. He then moved to left in 59 or 60, when Bill White established himself at first.

    Comment


    • #3
      Abreu over Sheffield, Sosa, Vlad??

      Comment


      • #4
        Sockeye’s Top 100, Not on NJRob65’s List
        3 – Stan Musial
        13 – Joe Jackson
        29 – Harry Hooper
        54 – Jesse Barfield
        62 – Kirk Gibson
        74 – Wally Moses
        80 – Aaron Judge
        82 – George Selkirk
        83 – Branch Russell
        84 – Socks Seybold
        85 – Danny Green
        90 – Buck Freeman
        92 – Bob Meusel
        98 – Pepper Martin
        99 – Billy Southworth
        100 – Carl Reynolds


        NJRob65’s Top 100, Not on Sockeye’s List
        49 – Wild Bill Wright
        53 – Heavy Johnson
        70 – Jayson Werth
        79 – Terry Puhl
        80 – Hank Bauer
        82 – Elmer Valo
        83 – Raul Mondesi
        84 – Willie Crawford
        86 – Vic Wertz
        87 – Rap Dixon
        88 – Danny Tartabull
        92 – Jay Buhner
        93 – Floyd Robinson
        95 – Andre Ethier
        98 – Yasiel Puig
        99 – Ellis Valentine
        "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
        "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
        "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
        "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

        Comment


        • #5
          • Originally posted by BigRon View Post
            Not at all a big deal, but Musial probably should be in the left fielder group. As is well known, he was one of the multi-position players, so it's a bit complicated. But, he played about 2/3rds of his games as an outfielder, 1/3rd at first base, so he's rightfully listed as an outfielder. He played more games and more innings in left than right, with a good sprinkling of center field in there. In 1943, his first MVP season, he was a rightfielder. In 1946 he was a first baseman! In 1948 he was a centerfielder, leftfielder, and rightfielder!! I remember him mainly as a leftfielder and first baseman. He had moved to first in the mid-50s, when I started following baseball. He then moved to left in 59 or 60, when Bill White established himself at first.

          Musial is a very hard guy to place. He played more outfield than first base, but he played more first base than any single outfield post. He played more left field than right field, but probably was a little better in right. He played a non-trivial number of games in center, well enough to be a regular there; they had Terry Moore at first, and then they probably preferred to lighten his workload by playing him somewhere off-center.

          So what position do you classify him at? I dunno; I don't think there's a wrong answer, but I'm not sure there is a right one either.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by redban View Post
            Abreu over Sheffield, Sosa, Vlad??
            WAR/WAR7/JAWS/WAR162/WAA
            Abreu: 60.0 41.6 50.9 4.0 28.3
            Sheffield: 60.5 38.0 49.3 3.8 26.0
            Sosa: 58.6 43.8 51.2 4.0 28.2
            Guerrero: 59.5 41.2 50.3 4.5 29.5

            Sheffield leads in WAR but Abreu leads in WAR7, JAWS, WAR/162 & WAA
            Sosa leads in WAR7 & JAWS while Abreu leads in WAR & WAA while they are tied in WAR/162
            Guerrero leads in WAR/162 & WAA but Abreu leads in WAR, WAR7 & JAWS

            So all things considered I'm comfortable with the rankings. I support Guerrero being in the hall. Sheffield and Sosa also belong there. I would also have no problem with Abreu being selected as well. He was a very underrated player especially when you see how he compares to these three all time greats.
            Last edited by Sockeye; 09-14-2021, 09:53 PM.
            My dream ballpark dimensions
            LF: 388 Feet...Height 37 Feet...LCF: 455 Feet...CF: 542 Feet...Height 35 Feet
            RCF: 471 Feet...RF: 400 Feet...Height 60 Feet
            Location....San Diego

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Sockeye View Post

              WAR/WAR7/JAWS/WAR162/WAA
              Abreu: 60.0 41.6 50.9 4.0 28.3
              Sheffield: 60.5 38.0 49.3 3.8 26.0
              Sosa: 58.6 43.8 51.2 4.0 28.2
              Guerrero: 59.5 41.2 50.3 4.5 29.5

              Sheffield leads in WAR but Abreu leads in WAR7, JAWS, WAR/162 & WAA
              Sosa leads in WAR7 & JAWS while Abreu leads in WAR & WAA while they are tied in WAR/162
              Guerrero leads in WAR/162 & WAA but Abreu leads in WAR, WAR7 & JAWS

              So all things considered I'm comfortable with the rankings. I support Guerrero being in the hall. Sheffield and Sosa also belong there. I would also have no problem with Abreu being selected as well. He was a very underrated player especially when you see how he compares to these three all time greats.

              Such a reliance on WAR —- you must be one of those people who think Lorenzo Cain is just 2-3 prime seasons away from being a HOFer

              anyone who watched the games knows Abreu wasn’t on the same level as Sosa, Vlad and Shef

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Cougar View Post

                Musial is a very hard guy to place. He played more outfield than first base, but he played more first base than any single outfield post. He played more left field than right field, but probably was a little better in right. He played a non-trivial number of games in center, well enough to be a regular there; they had Terry Moore at first, and then they probably preferred to lighten his workload by playing him somewhere off-center.

                So what position do you classify him at? I dunno; I don't think there's a wrong answer, but I'm not sure there is a right one either.
                Sigh.

                I agree. I was working on an analysis of the Cardinals fielding deployment of their 1B/OF during Musial's career and it's all over the place. I can tell you this:

                Categorizing each season by the position at which Musial appeared the most, Stan played 8 seasons at 1B, 7 in LF and 6 in RF (plus the 1 in CF).

                If you sum WAR and WAA for each season (we'll call the sum Wins Above Baseline), then Musial's most productive seasons were in right field. See below.

                80.1 WAB in 3,542 PA - right field (ages 20, 22-23, 27-28, 33 seasons)
                69.0 WAB in 4,895 PA - first base (ages 25-26, 29, 34-38)
                48.7 WAB in 3,603 PA - left field (ages 21, 30, 32, 39-42)
                12.5 WAB in 678 PA - center field (age 31)

                Musial was a LF/1B. The reason the normal career progression for this type of fielder was interrupted was that, at a very young age, Musial filled in for Enos Slaughter in right for a couple of years during the war and was capable enough (like Pete Rose) to play multiple positions competently. Musial, however, was never the first choice in right or center. Whenever a player with a better arm was available, Musial thrown back to left or first. He padded his years in left late in his career, but only because the Cards had Bill White to man first in those seasons. Otherwise, we'd all be rating Musial as a first baseman. He wasn't in left because he was the best fielder for the job, but because White was a first baseman and the Cards wanted both bats in the lineup. As he had throughout his career, Musial played wherever he was needed. It's a lot of Pete Rose's career, actually, who is also somewhat tough to place, but also a LF/1B when you really get down to it. Had WWII not happened, Musial would have stayed in left for most of his twenties, shifting to first at some point depending on the rest of the roster. We'd rate him as a left fielder. If White hadn't been a first baseman from Day One, then we'd rate Musial as a first baseman.

                It's a conundrum.
                "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
                "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
                "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
                "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by redban View Post


                  Such a reliance on WAR —- you must be one of those people who think Lorenzo Cain is just 2-3 prime seasons away from being a HOFer

                  anyone who watched the games knows Abreu wasn’t on the same level as Sosa, Vlad and Shef
                  I'll take Abreu ahead of Sosa, even without a PED consideration, Sammy was soo bad in "clutch" situations to give Bobby the nod.

                  Sheffield gets mauled for his defense, a moderate view gives him the win here.

                  It's close, but I'll take Vlad over Abreu, Guerrero is overhyped with the slash stats and strong arm, but he wasn't much of a defender besides and he has other weaknesses like being a GDP king. Abreu has such a broad based skillset that he's been ignored, but he's a hidden grey area HOF type guy.

                  Cain is at that level if DRS has his defense right...considering other sources, I agree that he isn't really THAT close.
                  Jacquelyn Eva Marchand (1983-2017)
                  http://www.tezakfuneralhome.com/noti...uelyn-Marchand

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