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BBF Ranking Game - Election #89 - Voting

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  • BBF Ranking Game - Election #89 - Voting

    Welcome to the BBF Ranking Game. We are creating an all-time ranking of players based on the wisdom of the crowd.

    This is the Voting thread for Election #89, where we will determine the 951st-967th best players of all-time. In the nomination thread: https://www.baseball-fever.com/forum...89-nominations, we determined these as the 34 candidates for this election:
    1. Lew Burdette
    2. Oyster Burns
    3. Fred Carroll
    4. John Clapp
    5. Andy Cooper
    6. Tony Cuccinello
    7. Adam Dunn
    8. Ron Fairly
    9. Scott Fletcher
    10. Von Hayes
    11. Davey Johnson
    12. Howard Johnson
    13. Judy Johnson
    14. Lance Johnson
    15. Willie Kamm
    16. Harvey Kuenn
    17. Aaron Nola
    18. Hunter Pence
    19. Brandon Phillips
    20. Rick Rhoden
    21. Carlos Ruiz
    22. Slim Sallee
    23. Hank Sauer
    24. Mario Soto
    25. Chris Speier
    26. Snuffy Stirnweiss
    27. Ted Strong
    28. Greg Swindell
    29. Jason Varitek
    30. Rube Walberg
    31. John Wetteland
    32. Doc Wiley
    33. Rick Wise
    34. George Zettelin
    The preferred voting method is to make a post here ranking these players from 1 to 34, from best to worst. We’re also allowing the use of Ties and Quadrant Voting as options.

    The voting will remain open at least 72 hours (though ~a week may be suitable the later we go in elections).
    ​​​​
    After that, three voters are needed to end it (Nominate Closing – 2nd – 3rd). Then someone will tally the results, which I can handle for the present time.

    Please post any questions concerning this project in the Proposal thread. You will also find complete rules for this project. Thanks for playing!

    Criteria for election:
    • We’ll consider anyone who could be eligible as a player for the NBHOFM. So all professional players in the United States since 1869. Value in other play such as NABBP, foreign leagues, barnstorming, etc., should be considered, as long as a significant portion of a player’s career value was accrued in professional play in North America.
    • We do want to consider circumstances that prevented players from participating at the game’s highest level at times when they could have been contributors. Due credit should be given for time missed due to short schedules, military service, racial barriers, being trapped in the minors, being blackballed or banned. But no extra credit for injuries, accidents or premature death.
    • Voters are expected to make their best effort to rank Negro leaguers and other players for whom the statistical record is incomplete or sketchy.
    • It’s left to the individual voter how much consideration to give to peak vs career, league quality affects, positional balance, time-lining, postseason credit, leverage, etc.
    • We’re here to rank the players, from the greatest on down. “The definition of a great player is one who helps his team win a lot of games.” -Bill James
    • So this ain’t the hall of fame; there’s no “character clause”. We’re assessing playing performance, nothing else. This task is difficult enough; we don’t need to consider how much weight to give non-playing factors, such as speculations about leadership, or sanctions for cheating, or hit pieces from disaffected writers, etc.

    NOTE: Let's aim for Wednesday morning cutoff ~ 1 am / Jan 19.
    Jacquelyn Eva Marchand (1983-2017)
    http://www.tezakfuneralhome.com/noti...uelyn-Marchand

  • #2
    1. Howard Johnson
    2. Ted Strong
    3. Judy Johnson
    4. Rich Rhoden
    5. Slim Sallee
    6. John Wetteland
    7. Tony Cuccinello
    8. Davey Johnson
    9. Hank Sauer
    10. Rube Walberg
    11. Andy Cooper
    12. Greg Swindell
    13. Fred Carroll
    14. Doc Wiley
    15. Johnny Clapp
    16. Hunter Pence
    17. Von Hayes
    18. Harvey Kuenn
    19. Ron Fairly
    20. Brandon Phillips
    21. Aaron Nola
    22. Mario Soto
    23. Jason Varitek
    24. Lance Johnson
    25. Adam Dunn
    26. Carlos Ruiz
    27. Lew Burdette
    28. Rick Wise
    29. George Zettlein
    30. Oyster Burns
    31. Willie Kamm
    32. Scott Fletcher
    33. Chris Speier
    34. Snuffy Stirnweiss

    Lots of Johnsons hanging in this round!
    Last edited by jjpm74; 01-18-2022, 08:33 AM.

    Comment


    • #3
      1, John Wetteland
      2. Aaron Nola
      3. Mario Soto
      4. Rube Walberg
      5. Greg Swindell
      6. Ron Fairly
      7. Hunter Pence
      8. Von Hayes
      9. Carlos Ruiz
      10. Lance Johnson
      11. Judy Johnson
      12. Rick Rhoden
      13. Davey Johnson
      14. Tony Cuccinello
      15. Ted Strong
      16. Scott Fletcher
      17. Willie Kamm
      18. Slim Salee
      19. Andy Cooper
      20. Fred Carroll
      21. Rick Wise
      22. Hank Sauer-some credit for military service
      23. John Clapp
      24. Oyster Burns
      25. George Zettelin
      26. Snuffy Stirnweiss
      27. Brandon Phillips
      28. Chris Speier
      29. Jason Varitek
      30. Howard Johnson
      31. Doc Wiley
      32. Harvey Kuenn
      33. Lew Burdette
      34. Adam Dunn

      Comment


      • #4
        1. Adam Dunn (Belongs in the HOF)
        .
        .
        .
        .
        .
        2. Willie Kamm (2-13 the time is now)
        3. Lance Johnson
        4. Tony Cuccinello
        5. Scott Fletcher
        6. Hunter Pence
        7. Ron Fairly
        8. Rube Walberg
        9. Greg Swindell
        10. Rick Rhoden
        12. Chris Speier
        12. Slim Sallee
        13. Rick Wise
        .
        14. Fred Carroll (14-29 still a bit early)
        15. Snuffy Stirnweiss
        16. Aaron Nola
        17. Oyster Burns
        18. Von Hayes
        19. Carlos Ruiz
        20. Davey Johnson
        21. Hank Sauer
        22. Andy Cooper (notice the ranking)
        23. Jason Varitek
        24. Brandon Phillips
        25. Mario Soto
        26. Howard Johnson
        27. Harvey Kuenn
        28. George Zettlein
        29. Lew Burdette
        .
        30. John Clapp (30-32 WAY TO SOON)
        31. John Wetteland
        32. Judy Johnson
        .
        33. Ted Strong (33-34 Andres Mora is more deserving)
        34. Doc Wiley
        Sockeye
        Sunday, May 14, 1978
        Last edited by Sockeye; 01-12-2022, 01:25 PM.
        My dream ballpark dimensions
        LF: 388 Feet...Height 37 Feet...LCF: 455 Feet...CF: 542 Feet...Height 35 Feet
        RCF: 471 Feet...RF: 400 Feet...Height 60 Feet
        Location....San Diego

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Sockeye View Post
          .
          33. Ted Strong (33-34 Andres Mora is more deserving)
          If you really think that, you know absolutely nothing about who Ted Strong was.

          Comment


          • #6
            You know nothing, Jon Snow.
            "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
            "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
            "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
            "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by jjpm74 View Post

              If you really think that, you know absolutely nothing about who Ted Strong was.
              Or maybe you know absolutely nothing about who Andres Mora was...

              Andrés Mora - BR Bullpen (baseball-reference.com)
              My dream ballpark dimensions
              LF: 388 Feet...Height 37 Feet...LCF: 455 Feet...CF: 542 Feet...Height 35 Feet
              RCF: 471 Feet...RF: 400 Feet...Height 60 Feet
              Location....San Diego

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Sockeye View Post

                Or maybe you know absolutely nothing about who Andres Mora was...

                Andrés Mora - BR Bullpen (baseball-reference.com)
                Unlike you, I know who both are and actually read books and do research.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by jjpm74 View Post

                  Unlike you, I know who both are and actually read books and do research.
                  I am well aware of both players but unlike you I take LQ into consideration instead of taking a 165 OPS+ in a mere 229 career games at face value.
                  When you add up all of Mora's home runs across all levels his known total is 619 (excluding playoff and allstar games)
                  I consider Mora's LQ and Strong's LQ to be roughly equal. Both players had very good power. Strong was probably a better base runner. Neither were particularly good defensively. Mora played to age 42, Strong was washed up at 33. Mora is one of the best players in Mexican league history and is in Salon de la Fama! So I do my research and actually know what I'm talking about.
                  My dream ballpark dimensions
                  LF: 388 Feet...Height 37 Feet...LCF: 455 Feet...CF: 542 Feet...Height 35 Feet
                  RCF: 471 Feet...RF: 400 Feet...Height 60 Feet
                  Location....San Diego

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Sockeye View Post

                    I am well aware of both players but unlike you I take LQ into consideration instead of taking a 165 OPS+ in a mere 229 career games at face value.
                    When you add up all of Mora's home runs across all levels his known total is 619 (excluding playoff and allstar games)
                    I consider Mora's LQ and Strong's LQ to be roughly equal. Both players had very good power. Strong was probably a better base runner. Neither were particularly good defensively. Mora played to age 42, Strong was washed up at 33. Mora is one of the best players in Mexican league history and is in Salon de la Fama! So I do my research and actually know what I'm talking about.
                    If you think both leagues were equal, you definitely do not know what you are talking about.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      1. Andy Cooper
                      2. Mario Soto
                      3. Lance Johnson
                      4. Slim Sallee
                      5. Ted Strong
                      6. Rube Walberg
                      7. John Clapp
                      8. Oyster Burns
                      9. Tony Cuccinello
                      10. Judy Johnson
                      11. Greg Swindell
                      12. Rick Rhoden
                      13. George Zettelin
                      14. Howard Johnson
                      15. Rick Wise
                      16. Von Hayes
                      17. Willie Kamm
                      18. Doc Wiley
                      19. Jason Varitek
                      20. Hunter Pence.
                      21. Fred Carroll
                      22. Harvey Kuenn
                      23. Ron Fairly
                      24. Lew Burdette
                      25. Carlos Ruiz
                      26. Hank Sauer
                      27. Scott Fletcher
                      28. Brandon Phillips
                      29. Davey Johnson
                      30. Aaron Nola
                      31. John Wetteland
                      32. Adam Dunn
                      33. Snuffy Stirnweiss
                      34. Chris Speier
                      PVNICK
                      Registered User
                      Last edited by PVNICK; 01-12-2022, 06:17 PM. Reason: Add Kuenn drop Gonzalez

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by PVNICK View Post
                        34. Gervasio Gonzalez
                        Gonzalez is not on this ballot. Did you mean Harvey Kuenn?
                        "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
                        "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
                        "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
                        "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by PVNICK View Post
                          1. Andy Cooper
                          2. Mario Soto
                          3. Lance Johnson
                          4. Slim Sallee
                          5. Ted Strong
                          6. Rube Walberg
                          7. John Clapp
                          8. Oyster Burns
                          9. Tony Cuccinello
                          10. Judy Johnson
                          11. Greg Swindell
                          12. Rick Rhoden
                          13. George Zettelin
                          14. Howard Johnson
                          15. Rick Wise
                          16. Von Hayes
                          17. Willie Kamm
                          18. Doc Wiley
                          19. Jason Varitek
                          20. Hunter Pence.
                          21. Fred Carroll
                          22. Ron Fairly
                          23. Lew Burdette
                          24. Carlos Ruiz
                          25. Hank Sauer
                          26, Scott Fletcher
                          27. Brandon Phillips
                          28. Davey Johnson
                          29. Aaron Nola
                          30. John Wetteland
                          31. Adam Dunn
                          32. Snuffy Stirnweiss
                          33. Chris Speier
                          34. Gervasio Gonzalez
                          You included Geravsio Gonzalez, who was not on the ballot, and omitted Harvey Kuenn.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by NJRob65 View Post

                            You included Geravsio Gonzalez, who was not on the ballot, and omitted Harvey Kuenn.
                            Oof. I'll edit.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Chadwick View Post
                              Gonzalez is not on this ballot. Did you mean Harvey Kuenn?
                              To think I wear glasses and still cant read.

                              Comment

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