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Babe Ruth vs Negro Leaugers - stats

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  • Babe Ruth vs Negro Leaugers - stats

    someone posted these here once

    tried using the search function to no avail for this specific post

    anyone got these?

  • #2
    Bill Jenkinson has documented 16 exhibition games in which Ruth played against black pitchers. He also mentions 3 other games for which there isn't any contemporary primary sources. Below is a summary of how he performed in the documented games per Jenkinson:

    AB - 55
    1B - 11
    2B - 2
    3B - 0
    HR - 12
    BA - .455
    SA - 1.145

    This includes his 3 jacks in one game off "Cannonball" Dick Redding in 1927.

    Before I read his book I had independently collected many of the same games and a few others from ProQuest, and John Holway's book. The sample size isn't large but he his rate stats against black pitchers is much better than the best hitting stats of the best black players of the time in Negro League play.

    *Note that Jenkinson gives Ruth credit for two homers that were ruled ground rule doubles. In an exhibition game in 1926, Ruth crushed two balls that would have been homers in any major league park. The game was played at a field with a short right field fence so any ball hit over the fence, regardless of the distance, was ruled a ground rule double. Technically he hit .455 with 10 homers 4 doubles and a 1.073 slugging average.
    "Batting slumps? I never had one. When a guy hits .358, he doesn't have slumps."

    Rogers Hornsby, 1961

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Bench 5 View Post
      Bill Jenkinson has documented 16 exhibition games in which Ruth played against black pitchers. He also mentions 3 other games for which there isn't any contemporary primary sources. Below is a summary of how he performed in the documented games per Jenkinson:

      AB - 55
      1B - 11
      2B - 2
      3B - 0
      HR - 12
      BA - .455
      SA - 1.145

      This includes his 3 jacks in one game off "Cannonball" Dick Redding in 1927.

      Before I read his book I had independently collected many of the same games and a few others from ProQuest, and John Holway's book. The sample size isn't large but he his rate stats against black pitchers is much better than the best hitting stats of the best black players of the time in Negro League play.

      *Note that Jenkinson gives Ruth credit for two homers that were ruled ground rule doubles. In an exhibition game in 1926, Ruth crushed two balls that would have been homers in any major league park. The game was played at a field with a short right field fence so any ball hit over the fence, regardless of the distance, was ruled a ground rule double. Technically he hit .455 with 10 homers 4 doubles and a 1.073 slugging average.
      More on that game, the two homer game.

      Comment


      • #4
        Two more articles, one with Ruth against a black team and the other against a Cuban team that also had some black players on that team.

        I do have another article that I can't locate at this time, one where Ruth pitches against some Cuban stars. In that game Ruth was playing first and with only a few warm up pitches faced off against the Cubans. The first batter Jose Torriente one of the greatest Cuban player lined double off of Ruth. Ruth then struck out the next three batters. I believe that was the only time known where he pitched in exhibitions involving black or Cuban players..

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        • #5
          Originally posted by [email protected]
          I have heard of Cristobal Torriente, who in an exhibition game involving Ruth's team, hit three homers in a game while Ruth went 0 for 4 that day, this was at a Cuban ball park. one of the homers was off Ruth.

          I have heard of that but have no info on it. I will do a search, see if I could come up with some info.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by [email protected]
            I have heard of Cristobal Torriente, who in an exhibition game involving Ruth's team, hit three homers in a game while Ruth went 0 for 4 that day, this was at a Cuban ball park. one of the homers was off Ruth.

            I have heard of that but have no info on it. I will do a search, see if I could come up with some info.

            Comment


            • #7
              I've read several excerpts about the game between Torriente and Ruth. After the 1920 season the NY Giants played a series of exhibition games in Cuba against some of the top Cuban players. Over the course of the series Ruth hit 10 for 29 with 5 runs, 2 singles, 3 doubles, 3 triples and two homers and 6 Ks. His average was .345.

              In one of the games, Cristobal Torriente hit 3 homers off NY Giants 1st baseman George "Highpockets" Kelly. Babe Ruth came in to pitch once versus Torriente and gave up a double. Ruth was 0-3 with a walk in the game. According to one of the books I took out from the library, all of Torriente's homers appear to have been in the park. Apparently the park was huge and it was rare to see anyone hit one over the fence.

              This has often been reported as a case where Babe got "outdone" by a Cuban player. He did get outdone - but you rarely see it mentioned that Torriente did his damage off of a first baseman.
              "Batting slumps? I never had one. When a guy hits .358, he doesn't have slumps."

              Rogers Hornsby, 1961

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Bench 5 View Post
                I've read several excerpts about the game between Torriente and Ruth. After the 1920 season the NY Giants played a series of exhibition games in Cuba against some of the top Cuban players. Over the course of the series Ruth hit 10 for 29 with 5 runs, 2 singles, 3 doubles, 3 triples and two homers and 6 Ks. His average was .345.

                In one of the games, Cristobal Torriente hit 3 homers off NY Giants 1st baseman George "Highpockets" Kelly. Babe Ruth came in to pitch once versus Torriente and gave up a double. Ruth was 0-3 with a walk in the game. According to one of the books I took out from the library, all of Torriente's homers appear to have been in the park. Apparently the park was huge and it was rare to see anyone hit one over the fence.

                This has often been reported as a case where Babe got "outdone" by a Cuban player. He did get outdone - but you rarely see it mentioned that Torriente did his damage off of a first baseman.

                Now it's coming back to me. On the face of it looks like Torriente really out did the Babe on that one day but it has to be considered the pitching Torriente was facing. Not to take anything away from him as a hitter, he could really drive some balls.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Bench 5 View Post
                  I've read several excerpts about the game between Torriente and Ruth. After the 1920 season the NY Giants played a series of exhibition games in Cuba against some of the top Cuban players. Over the course of the series Ruth hit 10 for 29 with 5 runs, 2 singles, 3 doubles, 3 triples and two homers and 6 Ks. His average was .345.

                  In one of the games, Cristobal Torriente hit 3 homers off NY Giants 1st baseman George "Highpockets" Kelly. Babe Ruth came in to pitch once versus Torriente and gave up a double. Ruth was 0-3 with a walk in the game. According to one of the books I took out from the library, all of Torriente's homers appear to have been in the park. Apparently the park was huge and it was rare to see anyone hit one over the fence.

                  This has often been reported as a case where Babe got "outdone" by a Cuban player. He did get outdone - but you rarely see it mentioned that Torriente did his damage off of a first baseman.
                  Not the best quality, hope it legible. Here is an article on that game, Babe and Torriente.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    SJ3 - That is exactly the book I read at the library. It looks like the next paragraph tells why the feat was tarnished a bit. Do you mind listing what is says below that?

                    BTW - I have several Ruth versus Negro league games that I plan on posting over on the Negro League forum.

                    Thanks.
                    "Batting slumps? I never had one. When a guy hits .358, he doesn't have slumps."

                    Rogers Hornsby, 1961

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Bench 5 View Post
                      SJ3 - That is exactly the book I read at the library. It looks like the next paragraph tells why the feat was tarnished a bit. Do you mind listing what is says below that?

                      BTW - I have several Ruth versus Negro league games that I plan on posting over on the Negro League forum.

                      Thanks.
                      Sure thing, this picks up where that previous post left off.This is all that I have.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        it's too bad the negro leagues didn't have the finances to sign white players....imagine them taking over baseball by signing Ruth and Gehrig

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                        • #13
                          Babe Ruth wasn't black?
                          "No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by bluesky5 View Post
                            Babe Ruth wasn't black?
                            ty cobb says he was

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Blackout View Post
                              it's too bad the negro leagues didn't have the finances to sign white players....imagine them taking over baseball by signing Ruth and Gehrig
                              LOL...much like the ABA or the AFL. Interesting thought.
                              "It's better to look good, than be good."

                              Comment

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