Rogers Hornsby vs. Honus Wagner

[White Knight]

I notice many people (probably most) have Wagner rated higher than Hornsby. Just want to hear some opinions. I put Hornsby slightly ahead, but could change my mind since I have them ranked back-to-back. Discuss.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Guess who I voted for?

[White Knight]

Guess who I voted for?

Lol. But why did you vote for him? Do tell, I am very open for change on this.

[leecemark]

--Wagner played a more difficult position and played it MUCH better than Hornsby. Wagner was a MUCH better baserunner. Wagner had a MUCH longer career. And as the icing on the cake Wagner was a MUCH better teammate.

[White Knight]

--Wagner played a more difficult position and played it MUCH better than Hornsby. Wagner was a MUCH better baserunner. Wagner had a MUCH longer career. And as the icing on the cake Wagner was a MUCH better teammate.

Good arguements. How do you compare them as hitters? Do you put Rahjah much higher, or no?

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Lol. But why did you vote for him? Do tell, I am very open for change on this.

Honus was by far the greater all-around player. He was a defensive genius, incredible baserunner, and hit for great power for the Dead Ball era. I truly believe that had Honus played in the live ball era he would be a 500-700 HR man.

[baseballPAP]

Hornsby was a 10 with the stick....Wagner about 9.8. Everything else balled into one, and it comes out Wagner 10 , Hornsby about 5.

I have Hornsby down at #13.....Wagner is #4, and I don't consider them especially close.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Good arguements. How do you compare them as hitters? Do you put Rahjah much higher, or no?

I ask myself, could Wagner have hit .400 in the 1920s? I think he could have. He had seasons on .381 and .363 and a bunch of other .350+ seasons. The gap between Hornsby and Wagner as hitters is small.

[White Knight]

Hornsby was a 10 with the stick....Wagner about 9.8. Everything else balled into one, and it comes out Wagner 10 , Hornsby about 5.

I have Hornsby down at #13.....Wagner is #4, and I don't consider them especially close.

Very good points, I almost wish I could change my vote. Just out of curiosity, can you name the 12 players you have ahead of Hornsby? I had them both in my top 5, back to back.

[baseballPAP]

Sure...pulled directly from my list, where sterroids are only factored in when they are a known fact:
1 Babe Ruth
2 Ty Cobb
3 Willie Mays
4 Honus Wagner
5 Henry Aaron
6 BARRY BONDS
7 Ted Williams
8 Stan Musial
9 Mickey Mantle
10 Lou Gehrig
11 Tris Speaker
12 ALEX RODRIGUEZ
13 Rogers Hornsby

[KCGHOST]

Wagner is one of the players that should be on everyone's shortlist of "greatest player ever". He played the more demanding position at a high level while Hornsby played a weaker position (particularly in that era) at a fairly low level. And he did it for a longer period of time. Wagner was the vastly superior baserunner.

Hornsby may well have been the best RHed hitter ever, but Wagner is very close to him in that regard. His peak value (best 7 consecutive years) is a dead match for Wagner's, but Wagner has longevity on him.

As great as the Rajah was, The Dutchman was better.

[ChrisLDuncan]

Sure...pulled directly from my list, where sterroids are only factored in when they are a known fact:
1 Babe Ruth
2 Ty Cobb
3 Willie Mays
4 Honus Wagner
5 Henry Aaron
6 BARRY BONDS
7 Ted Williams
8 Stan Musial
9 Mickey Mantle
10 Lou Gehrig
11 Tris Speaker
12 ALEX RODRIGUEZ
13 Rogers Hornsby

13th? Eww, wyhy is Mantle only 9th and Williams 7th? How is Aaron better than Ted?

[ChrisLDuncan]

Wagner but it isn't by a whole lot, I'd go for my top ten:

Ruth
Bonds
Wagner
Mantle
Williams
Hornsby
Cobb
Speaker
Mays
Gehrig

Off the top of my head. So only three players between the two, not that big of a difference. I can see a case for Hornsby though.

[Wade8813]

and hit for great power for the Dead Ball era. I truly believe that had Honus played in the live ball era he would be a 500-700 HR man.

While I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm not sure I can agree either.

Someone in the deadball era could hit a grand total of 2 HR in a season, and people would argue that he might have been a solid power hitter. Someone who hit 5 HR a season is regarded as possibly a huge power threat. I'm sorry, but the difference between 2 HR and 5 HR is too small to make that distinction. It's almost like the only way to not be considered a power hitter is if you didn't hit any HR. That's just unrealistic.

Hornsby was a 10 with the stick....Wagner about 9.8. Everything else balled into one, and it comes out Wagner 10 , Hornsby about 5.

How the heck do you have the person you consider the 13th best all time rated as a '5' all around?

[Chickazoola]

Wagner but it isn't by a whole lot, I'd go for my top ten:

Ruth
Bonds
Wagner
Mantle
Williams
Hornsby
Cobb
Speaker
Mays
Gehrig

Off the top of my head. So only three players between the two, not that big of a difference. I can see a case for Hornsby though.

I am intrigued by how low you have both Cobb and Mays. Mantle and Speaker over Mays? Hornsby over Cobb? Care to explain?