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Rogers Hornsby vs. Honus Wagner

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Wade8813 View Post
    While I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm not sure I can agree either.
    We had a great thread on this very subject but apparently it has been deleted.

    I have several reasons to believe that Honus would have been a 500-700 HR man in the live ball era.

    1) He didn't have a typical dead ball era swing. Check out below.

    2) He hit several tape measure shots. He hit one HR in 1903 that went over 450 ft.

    3) Ed Barrow, the man that discovered Honus' stated that had Wagner played in the 1920s he would have hit 50 HRs per season with regularity.

    4) Just looking at Honus' body, huge hands, thick sinewy wrists, and huge back he reminds me of Lou Gehrig physically. Lou was 6'0" 200 lbs. Honus was 5'11" 200 lbs.
    Attached Files
    Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

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    • #17
      Originally posted by ChrisLDuncan View Post
      Wagner but it isn't by a whole lot, I'd go for my top ten:

      Ruth > Who else?
      Bonds > I can see it although I penalize him.
      Wagner > Usually 2, 3, or 4. Okay.
      Mantle > My idol but a bit high.
      Williams > Nobody will ever convince me he's 5th best all time.
      Hornsby > Whoa...I like Rogers but this is....pretty high for him.
      Cobb > Too low. Should be up 2 - 4. Burgess is gonna be after you for this.
      Speaker > Reasonable.
      Mays > Willie 9th! Whew! Usually 2 - 4.
      Gehrig > I don't agree but is reasonable.

      Added my comments next to the players. This is a pretty rare ranking.

      Yankees Fan Since 1957

      Comment


      • #18
        Great discussion! Here is how I rank my Top 10. Numbers following represent Bill James' rankings in 2001.

        Honus is my second greatest ever, Rogers my 8th. Rogers is my 4th best hitter ever, after Ty, Babe, Ted. Wagner is in my Top 10 hitters. His overall gifts more than make up for Rogers more potent bat.

        1. Ty Cobb 5
        2. Honus Wagner 2
        3. Babe Ruth 1
        4. Willie Mays 3
        5. Oscar Charleston, NL 4
        6. Pop Lloyd, NL 22
        7. Tris Speaker 10
        8. Rogers Hornsby 18
        9. Lou Gehrig 13
        10. Barry Bonds 15
        ------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Here is my customary Honus piece.


        A Word on Wagner:

        Honus Wagner, 1897-1916, was the greatest fielder in the MLs, the greatest hitter in the league, the greatest basestealer and baserunner in the league for around over 10 years.

        John McGraw said that they could never determine his highest point of superiority, his hitting, running or fielding. He said that if he had a hitting weakness, they never discovered it.

        Wagner was called the greatest player ever by:
        McGraw, Bill Klem, Sam Crawford, Ed Barrow, John Gruber, George Moreland, Branch Rickey, Lou Gehrig, Johny Evers, Bill McKechnie, Max Carey, Fred Clarke, Jimmy Burke, Jimmy Sheckard, Tommy Leach, Babe Adams, Ed Roush, Paul Waner, Ralph Davis, Barney Dreyfuss, Jim Long. I haven't found quotes from Mathewson, Mordecai Brown, Frank Chance, Ginger Beaumont, Johnny Kling, Grover Alexander, Joe McGinnity, Joe Tinker, and others of his peers.

        Honus won 8 BA. titles, 6 SLG. titles, 5 SB titles, 5 RBI titles, 7 Total Bases titles, and 4 OBA titles.

        Many such as Joe McCarthy and Cobb called him a perfect player. This meaning that there were no skills on a ball field that he lacked. And to an extreme degree. And temperamentally, Wagner was as sweet-natured as they come. And on top of it all, he was a shortstop without weaknesses. He could go into the hole behind 3rd or 2nd, go aloft, and had a rifle for an arm (he pitched 2 games), and was death on grounders, bunts or liners anywhere near him.

        But it doth my heart glad to hear an enlightened few give up the props and render forth to Honus that which belongs to Wagner.

        For Gehrig or Hornsby or A-Rod to match the Matchless One, they would have had to have been the best hitter, fielder & baserunner in the MLs for around 10 years, and I think time ran out on them 80 yrs. ago, and A-Rod isn't be the best runner in the league and Bonds is the best hitter, so he's out too.

        Three places where Hans has received his due credit are:

        1. Bill James' Historical Abstract. 1988, pp. 384-385.

        2. Baseball's All Time Dream Team, by John P. McCarthy, Jr., 1994, pp. 64.

        3. The Diamond Appraised, by Craig R. Wright and Tom House, 1989, pp. 367-409. The Wagner segment is taken by Craig R. Wright.

        In the 3rd book, it's alleged that Honus was once timed in 3.4 seconds, going from home to 1st, from the right-handed batters box.
        --------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Honus/Babe:

        Hans has many, many BB virtues which Babe could only dream about.

        1. Babe out-slugged Hans, with the aid of an era factor that was impossible to overcome. But considering his era, Hans also slugged great. 6 SLG. titles.

        2. Hans was arguably the finest all-around fielder who ever lived. He wasn't the finest defensive SS, but he was very close to the finest. Ozzie Smith, Herman Long, Bobby Wallace and Glenn Wright may have shaded him for that honor, but only by the barest of margins. But they couldn't be played at 1B, 3B, OF as easy as Hans, and shined. Hans made impossible miracles happen with his glove. Up the middle, behind 3B, short LF. His arm was a campfire legend all its own. They still refer to it in Pittsburgh.

        3. Hans was one of the great runners of history. 5 SB titles.

        4. Hans was one of the great hitters of history. 8 BA. titles, 6 SLG. titles, 5 RBI titles, 7 Total Bases titles, and 4 OBA titles.

        5. Hans without a doubt was the greatest Offensive/Defensive combo Player of All Time, with the great Willie Mays, and then possibly Tris Speaker, following. Hans ranks higher due to positional importance.

        6. Although many believe that Babe Ruth's bat makes up for all these miracles, Babe could only out-slug the Flying Dutchman. But how can anyone know or prove how well Wagner would have adjusted to the lively ball? He was a powerhouse unto himself. Could he have more value to his team? Depends who you'd ask.

        From '00-10, Honus was thought the greatest ever, until Cobb nudged him aside. But even then, he held onto his 2nd ranking from 1910-50.

        On Feb. 4, 1950, in NYC, the Associated Press, announced the results of its poll of its members, with respect to baseball. Ruth 253, Cobb 116, Gehrig 8, W. Johnson 7, DiMaggio 5, Wagner 2, Mathewson 2.

        By contrast, in its April 2, 1942 edition, Sporting News conducted its own survey, of those who HAD seen them all, and Ty got 61 votes, Honus 17 and Babe 11, Hornsby 2, 10 players received 1 vote each: Delahanty, Gehrig, Speaker, DiMaggio, Ott, Sisler, E. Collins, Johnson, Mathewson, Jerry Denny.

        This survey supported the 1936 Hall of Fame vote:
        Original Hall of Fame vote, Feb. 2, 1936, votes counted at the Commissioner's office in Chicago, IL. 226 Total Voters; Cobb 222, Wagner 215, Ruth 215, Mathewson 205, Johnson 189, Lajoie 146, Speaker 133, Young 111, Hornsby 105, Cochrane 80, Sisler 77, E. Collins 60, J. Collins 58, Alexander 55, Gehrig 51.

        Of course, most folks have been told, and believe, that The Babe is the greatest player ever, and by a gigantic degree, but that is only because the game has evolved in a Ruthian direction, and away from a Wagnerian/Cobbian one.

        But you will have to make that determination for yourself.

        PS. I judge folks BB chops/smarts by how they rank Wagner primarily, and Cobb secondarily.
        ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Wagner: Greatest Offense/Defense Combo:

        From 1900-10, Honus Wagner was arguably the best hitter, fielder, and runner in baseball. Which establishes him as a true baseball god. One of the top 2, IMHO, after TC.

        Cobb, due to his fielding, could never make that claim.
        Babe, due to his running/fielding could never make that assertion.


        So, I got to thinking, could anyone else ever make that exalted claim?
        I think some players might have been able to make such a limited claim for a certain, select season or two. Arguably. Can anyone think of a season, where a player was ARGUABLY the best hitter, fielder, runner in baseball.

        I came up with Mays & Bonds.

        I define best fielder as the best at your position.

        --------------------------------------------------------------------------

        Wagner over Mays:

        From 1900-1910, Wagner achieved an almost impossible feat. On the whole, he was the best hitter, fielder and runner in his league. Others may have had a better year than he did in one of the skills, but overall - he was dominant.

        Now, I am fully informed that someone will immediately post that the only reason Honus could do that was due to the chronic weakness in the NL, due to the incessant AL raids. And they may be quite right on that. But does anyone doubt that Hans couldn't have done that even if his league had stayed strong? Holding a man responsible for the inherent weakness of his competition is so wrong.

        Many players only play as good as they have to to win, and can improve their game if their rivals push them. Like Cobb/Jackson, 1911-13, or Ruth/Gehrig, '27.

        In hitting, Wagner led his league so many more times than Willie in hitting categories that it isn't even funny. Now I am also aware, that Willie had to contend with a level of competition in the 1950-60's, mostly in the form of fellow black players, that Hans didn't face.

        Honus may have appeared easy-going, but beneath the Lincolnesque facade, burned an intensely competitive spirit. Could he have remained supreme, if John "Pop" Lloyd had been in the NL? I think he could have, and if you know me, I'm saying a mouthful! So that is how highly I regard Wagner!

        Fielding: I must consider Wagner much the better fielder, because the best SS is better defensively than the best CF. Mays had rivals in Ashburn. Even considering Richie's fly-ball throwing pitching staff. Mays had a much bigger OF turf to patrol in the Polo Ground, which allows more flys to be caught, up to '57. If Mays was as good a fielder, he'd have been an infielder. No one good enough to handle the infield, especially SS, is assigned the gardens. You put your sluggish sluggers there. Willie wasn't sluggish, by any means, but not agile enough to handle an infield post, surely not SS.

        To those who cry foul, at comparing a SS with an OF, let me remind you, that SS is a far more demanding post than CF, and requires more defensive talent.

        I wouldn't call Honus the best fielding SS of his day. Bobby Wallace was probably better, but not by a lot. Very slight margin.

        Running: Again, I must rate Hans over Willie. Yes, Wilie ran very well, but Hans was one of the all time runners. Willie was not. And when a SS runs that well, that is something. Simply because we lack SB% in his era, we can't assume that Wagner was a poor % runner. Hans was expected to run, while Willie was not. So I do give Mays extra bonus points, but not nearly enough to overcome Wagner's SB totals. Hans is still 10th all time, with 722 SB. Hans was leading a league of base stealers 5 times, while Willie was leading a league of non-runners 4 times.

        Honus Wagner--BA---Hits--2B---3B---HR Runs---RBI---TB---OBA--SLG.--SB
        Led league------8-----2----7----3----0----2------5-----7----4-----6---5


        Willie Mays---BA---Hits---2B---3B---HR---Runs---RBI---TB---OBA---SLG.--SB
        Led league----1----1------0----3----4----2------0------3----2------5----4


        Although Willie led his league in homers 4 times, Honus finished in the top 5 in homers 4 times. It is easy to see at a glance that in hitting, both super-stars are among the elite hitters. Their stats cut across the board, in the same way as Cobb, Hornsby, Bonds and several others. They didn't merely bunch their good numbers in a few power categories, but cuts across the boards.

        And they both star at both ends, actually are triple threats. But Wagner edges Willie in defense/running, and holds him to a draw in hitting. Hans weaker league is compensated for, by leading it much more often, as he needed to do, given the discrepancy in league strength.

        Summary: Honus in all 3 categories. We cannot assume that Wagner would have been found wanting in power, had he been accorded his chances.
        -------------------------------------------------------------------------
        .
        --------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Cobb/Wagner:

        1. Honus was the greatest all-around fielder baseball has yet produced, IMHO.
        But he was never considered the final word at SS defense, and was always considered below Herman Long, Bobby Wallace, Glenn Wright and Ozzie Smith, strictly for SS D. But better than them in over-all D.

        2. Ty was always considered more than a little better at the plate, and on the bags. On the bags, Cobb was supreme, the best BB has yet produced, with no apologies to Hamilton, Carey, Brock, Henderson or Wills. The Supreme disrupter, above Lange or J. Robinson.

        3. Wagner's league was weaker than Cobb's until 1908, but Wagner sustained a higher level of league dominance for longer.

        4. Cobb had a more dramatic psychological effect on his opposition, but Wagner had a better harmonizing effect in the clubhouse.

        5. From the historical record, many, many more great players would have rathered to have Cobb on board than Honus, including Collins, Speaker, Sisler, Mack, Simmons, Cochrane, Grove, etc. People who had seen him up close and personal, and been on teams with him. My files have many who had seen Wagner for an extended time, knew what he could do, and called Cobb better, in VERY direct terms. I can provided some cool quotes, if requested.

        Overall, Ty's superiority on the bags, and at the plate, more than compensates for any deficit a fantastic SS can create afield, over a very, very good CF, the best base-runner, and a considerably better hitter.

        And Wagner would be the 2nd player I'd pick in a draft. Walter Johnson my 3rd. It would just kill me to NOT have all 3 on my team.
        --------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Wagner/Lloyd

        Two of the most scintillating, glittering lights BB ever produced. I have Wagner as my #2 man all-time, and Pop's my #10th. Bill James has Wagner as his #2 also, and Pop is his #22.

        I always laugh when someone puts Williams ahead of Honus. Or Gehrig. Anyone who doesn't have Wagner in their top 5, should be, well, ignored. Wagner was a BB god, and bad things happen to those who refuse to properly honor and render piety to the gods. Thank God all well-read posters here have him in their top 5. But most aren't familiar enough with John Lloyd to give him his justice. So let's try to compare the two. And that's not easy.

        John Henry Lloyd was born April 15, 1884, and made it to semi-pro by 1905, at age of 21.
        He started as a catcher. He traveled the Negro leagues pretty well. In 1907, his manager switched him from 2B to SS. It wasn't unusual for him to go south every winter, ending up playing 12 months a yr. He played the position so well, that they called him the "Black Honus Wagner". Wagner, after watching Lloyd play, switched the compliment to, "It's a privilege to have been compared to him."

        From 1907-10, he played each winter in Cuba, and in Nov.- Dec., 1910, the Detroit Tigers visited Cuba for a set of 12 games. Initially, Cobb didn't want to go. But when the Cuban promoters offered an additional $1,000. bonus, plus travel expenses. He said, "I decided to break my own rule for a few games."

        Crawford, Mullen and all the starting Tiger pitchers went along. Plus O'Leary,
        Willet, Moriarty, T. Jones, Casey, Stanage, McIntyre, Schaefer went along. Mullen also managed. The Cubans were joined by black US stars, Bruce Petway, Pete Hill, Grant Johnson and Pop Lloyd, sometimes called the black Honus Wagner. Cobb dilly-dallied in Key West before he arrived in Havana, on Nov. 26, by which time, the Tigers had gone 3-3-1 with the black ballplayers. With Cobb they finished, 7-4-1. In the last game, Mendez fanned Ty once, Ty got a single, and Petway threw him out at 2nd when he tried to steal. For 5 games, Ty went 7 x 19= .370. Crawford hit .360 in 12 games, and Lloyd hit .500, Johnson .412, and Petway
        .390, all against top ML pitching.

        So, as a point of comparison, Wagner played a set of 7 games against the 1909 Tigers, basically the same bunch that Lloyd played a year later. And Wagner managed a .333 BA. against the same pitching Lloyd hit .500 against.

        Lloyd played against McGraw's Giants in 1913, McGraw toyed with bringing him into the NL. That's how impressed Little Napoleon was with him. At 5'11, 180, he was acknowledged as one of the campfire legends of the game. By 1918, he started managing/playing, which he continued until he retired in 1931, at age 47. By then he had switched to 1B, but could still hit. He settled in Atlantic City, NJ, married in '44. He continued to fool around with semi-pro until he was 58, playing 1B. Esquire magazine did a story on him in '38, bringing him to the attention of the white fans. He became a janitor in the Atlantic City post office, and in the mid-30's, became school janitor at the Indiana Avenue school. The kids all loved him and called him Pop. He died on March 19, 1965 in Atlantic City at age 80.

        Men like Mack, McGraw and Hughie Jennings all called him among the best players in BB history. In various yrs., he often hit around .450.

        Ultimately, I have to give it to Wagner, since without verifiable stats against qualified opposition, I can't assume Lloyd was better, or even as good. This brief summary was culled from Marty Appel's fantastic book, Baseball's Best, 1980, pp. 413-414.
        Last edited by Bill Burgess; 02-08-2008, 06:04 PM.

        Comment


        • #19
          1. Ty Cobb
          2. Babe Ruth
          3. Honus Wagner
          4. Ted Williams
          5. Rogers Hornsby
          6. Mickey Mantle
          7. Tris Speaker
          8. Willie Mays
          9. Barry Bonds
          10. Lou Gehrig
          Originally posted by Domenic
          The Yankees should see if Yogi Berra can still get behind the plate - he has ten World Series rings... he must be worth forty or fifty million a season.

          Comment


          • #20
            My Top 10

            I might as well get into this: I favor Career over Peak. I value consistency. League leadership is not as important as regularly ranking at or near the top in crtical statistical categories:

            1) Babe Ruth > Those of you who don't have the Bambino #1 are wrong.
            2) Willie Mays > The most complete all around player to play the game.
            3) Ty Cobb > Nobody has ever burned so bright for so long.
            4) Honus Wagner > Second only to Willie as most complete player ever.
            5) Hank Aaron > Incredible brilliant consistency. Underrated.
            6) Tris Speaker > Ranks right behind Mays and Wagner as complete player.
            7) Ted Williams > 2nd greatest hitter ever behind Ruth.
            8) Stan Musial > Like Aaron, incredibe great consistency.
            9) Mickey Mantle > As great as he was there is a feeling he never fulfilled his potential.
            10) Mike Schmidt > Best player in one of the most competitive eras ever.

            ***note***
            Barry Bonds deserves to be in the Top 10 but I just cannot bring myself to rank him in there anymore.
            Fighting for 11 - 15: Lou Gehrig, Rogers Hornsby, Eddie Collins, Rickey Henderson, Frank Robinson, Johnny Bench, and Yogi Berra.

            Yankees Fan Since 1957

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules View Post
              We had a great thread on this very subject but apparently it has been deleted.

              I have several reasons to believe that Honus would have been a 500-700 HR man in the live ball era.

              1) He didn't have a typical dead ball era swing. Check out below.

              2) He hit several tape measure shots. He hit one HR in 1903 that went over 450 ft.

              3) Ed Barrow, the man that discovered Honus' stated that had Wagner played in the 1920s he would have hit 50 HRs per season with regularity.

              4) Just looking at Honus' body, huge hands, thick sinewy wrists, and huge back he reminds me of Lou Gehrig physically. Lou was 6'0" 200 lbs. Honus was 5'11" 200 lbs.
              I agree with HWR on this and have said so before: I believe for pretty much the reasons he just stated that Wagner was a live ball swinger stuck in the dead ball era. That is, of course, just speculation, but I side with his speculation.
              Hey, this is my public apology for suddenly disappearing and missing out on any projects I may have neglected.

              Comment


              • #22
                I'm currently reevaluating my list, particularly where I rank pitchers, so this is loosish, but. . .

                1. Babe Ruth
                2. Barry Bonds
                3. Ted Williams
                4. Willie Mays
                5. Honus Wagner
                6. Walter Johnson
                7. Mickey Mantle
                8. Ty Cobb (Sorry, Bill.)
                9. Stan Musial
                10. Lefty Grove
                11. Lou Gehrig
                12. Hank Aaron
                13. Rogers Hornsby


                When players are this high, the differences are largely splitting hairs.
                Last edited by philkid3; 02-08-2008, 09:37 PM.
                Hey, this is my public apology for suddenly disappearing and missing out on any projects I may have neglected.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by philkid3 View Post
                  I agree with HWR on this and have said so before: I believe for pretty much the reasons he just stated that Wagner was a live ball swinger stuck in the dead ball era. That is, of course, just speculation, but I side with his speculation.
                  ----I do too.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by baseballPAP View Post
                    Hornsby was a 10 with the stick....Wagner about 9.8. Everything else balled into one, and it comes out Wagner 10 , Hornsby about 5.

                    I have Hornsby down at #13.....Wagner is #4, and I don't consider them especially close.
                    ...If a 5 get's you in the top 15, what kind of number is someone out of the top 50 getting?

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Hornsby was the better hitter...and by a noticeable margin as well. I mean Wagner did play in 500 more games, but Hornsby has a 25 point lead in OPS+. Hornsby has a career .815 OWP, compared to Wagner's .762. Even if you cut out Wagner's decline phase, such as anything after age 38, where he had a career 160 OPS+, he is still behind Hornsby.

                      The big difference maker for me is the defense. Hornsby did play 2B, but he was not that great. He definitely had his flaws. Wagner on the other hand, was one of the premier SS of his day defensively. He was able to man other positions more than adequately as well (RF, 1B, 3B, and even a few games at 2B).

                      So Wagner wins this one out, but it's not really a huge difference. I would be happy to have either player (though I hear Wagner would have been easier to work with ).

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Chickazoola View Post
                        I am intrigued by how low you have both Cobb and Mays. Mantle and Speaker over Mays? Hornsby over Cobb? Care to explain?
                        I value peak quite a bit, and Mantle's peak value is impossible for Mays to top. Mantle had injury problems that were beyond his control, so I give him a bit of credit for that. Speaker had a higher OPS+ and IMO was a cut above him defenisvely. Hornsby over Cobb is because Hornsby was a better hitter than CObb, and I feel that his offense from second base outweighs Cobb's career value.
                        "he probably used some performance enhancing drugs so he could do a better job on his report...i hear they make you gain weight" - Dr. Zizmor

                        "I thought it was interesting and yes a conversation piece. Next time I post a similar story I will close with the question "So, do you think either of them have used steroids?" so that I can make the topic truly relevant to discussions about today's game." - Eric Davis

                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqul1GyK7-g

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Since a few of you had questions, here's my explanations:


                          Ruth obvi
                          Bonds I tend to take what he did at pretty much face value
                          Wagner IMO, the most complete player ever.
                          Mantle Perhaps the greatest peak ever.
                          Williams Second greatest hitter ever, if he didn't go to war, you guys would be considereding fifth low
                          Hornsby Top ten or so hitter IMO, played second base at a C+/B- level from what I'd guess
                          Cobb Amazing hitter, great peak, but dead ballers are hard to rank
                          Speaker Greatest defensive CF ever, 158 OPS+ over a long career.
                          Mays Second most complete player, but IMO slightly overrated
                          Gehrig Third greatest hitter IMO, so that gets him top ten
                          "he probably used some performance enhancing drugs so he could do a better job on his report...i hear they make you gain weight" - Dr. Zizmor

                          "I thought it was interesting and yes a conversation piece. Next time I post a similar story I will close with the question "So, do you think either of them have used steroids?" so that I can make the topic truly relevant to discussions about today's game." - Eric Davis

                          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqul1GyK7-g

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by ChrisLDuncan View Post
                            I value peak quite a bit, and Mantle's peak value is impossible for Mays to top. Mantle had injury problems that were beyond his control, so I give him a bit of credit for that. Speaker had a higher OPS+ and IMO was a cut above him defenisvely. Hornsby over Cobb is because Hornsby was a better hitter than CObb, and I feel that his offense from second base outweighs Cobb's career value.
                            If you value peak, where do you rank Gehrig? He had a better peak IMO. Hell, his entire career was pretty much a peak.
                            Lou Gehrig is the Truest Yankee of them all!

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by ChrisLDuncan View Post
                              Wagner but it isn't by a whole lot, I'd go for my top ten:

                              Ruth
                              Bonds
                              Wagner
                              Mantle
                              Williams
                              Hornsby
                              Cobb
                              Speaker
                              Mays
                              Gehrig

                              Off the top of my head. So only three players between the two, not that big of a difference. I can see a case for Hornsby though.
                              I'd switch Mantle with Cobb, and Move Gehrig up to the middle. Other than that, looks similar to mine.
                              Lou Gehrig is the Truest Yankee of them all!

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by yanks0714 View Post
                                I might as well get into this: I favor Career over Peak. I value consistency. League leadership is not as important as regularly ranking at or near the top in crtical statistical categories:

                                1) Babe Ruth > Those of you who don't have the Bambino #1 are wrong.
                                2) Willie Mays > The most complete all around player to play the game.
                                3) Ty Cobb > Nobody has ever burned so bright for so long.
                                4) Honus Wagner > Second only to Willie as most complete player ever.
                                5) Hank Aaron > Incredible brilliant consistency. Underrated.
                                6) Tris Speaker > Ranks right behind Mays and Wagner as complete player.
                                7) Ted Williams > 2nd greatest hitter ever behind Ruth.
                                8) Stan Musial > Like Aaron, incredibe great consistency.
                                9) Mickey Mantle > As great as he was there is a feeling he never fulfilled his potential.
                                10) Mike Schmidt > Best player in one of the most competitive eras ever.

                                ***note***
                                Barry Bonds deserves to be in the Top 10 but I just cannot bring myself to rank him in there anymore.
                                Fighting for 11 - 15: Lou Gehrig, Rogers Hornsby, Eddie Collins, Rickey Henderson, Frank Robinson, Johnny Bench, and Yogi Berra.
                                IMO, you rank Schmidt far too high. No way he was better than Gehrig, or even Boggs or A-Rod IMO.
                                Lou Gehrig is the Truest Yankee of them all!

                                Comment

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