clemens splits in 1996

[fenrir]

does anyone find clemens splits in 96 a bit strange?

he seemed to be having a horrible season with a 4-11 w/l record, only throwing 2 complete games, with an era of 4.36. what's strange to me is after that clemens suddenly went 6-2, with a 2.09 era, averaging more k's per game, and tying the record of 20 strikeouts in a game he set in 1986. he also threw 4 more complete games. it's like we were getting a brief glimpse of what was to come in 97-98.

[bob]

I think your looking a little too hard. Everyone has seasons where they start badly but have a great second half (or vis versa). Even the most consistant will have an off couple of months at some point in there career.

[willshad]

Johan Santana's splits in 2004-2005 were amazing as well.

2004:
First half: 7-6 3.78
Second half: 13-0 1.21

2005:
First half: 7-5 3.98
Second half: 9-2 1.59

was he taking steroids the second half of those seasons?

Last season was the opposite:

First half: 10-6 2.75
Second half: 5-7 4.04

But in 2006 he was consistent throughout the season.
Any exlnanation for this?

[fenrir]

Johan Santana's splits in 2004-2005 were amazing as well.

2004:
First half: 7-6 3.78
Second half: 13-0 1.21

2005:
First half: 7-5 3.98
Second half: 9-2 1.59

was he taking steroids the second half of those seasons?

Last season was the opposite:

First half: 10-6 2.75
Second half: 5-7 4.04

But in 2006 he was consistent throughout the season.
Any exlnanation for this?

the differences between santana and clemens is that santana was not having a horrible season. a 4-11 w/l record would piss anyone off, especially a competitor like clemens. second off clemens success wasn't in the middle of the season, it happened in early august already close to the end. it's like he got a burst of power or something. i dont know if it was roids...but it certainly wouldnt surprise me. clemens has lost the benefit of the doubt with me. it's just kind of weird to me that 33 year old clemens was having a bad season the majority of the year, then suddenly busting out with a 2.09 era, a 20 strikegame game, and 4 complete games when he only had 2 complete games before. and this is already at the end of the season. dont you think he would be tired nearing the end of the season, especially at the age of 33, coming off an injury plagued season? it's supicious, imo.

[rockin500]

the differences between santana and clemens is that santana was not having a horrible season. a 4-11 w/l record would piss anyone off, especially a competitor like clemens. second off clemens success wasn't in the middle of the season, it happened in early august already close to the end. it's like he got a burst of power or something. i dont know if it was roids...but it certainly wouldnt surprise me. clemens has lost the benefit of the doubt with me. it's just kind of weird to me that 33 year old clemens was having a bad season the majority of the year, then suddenly busting out with a 2.09 era, a 20 strikegame game, and 4 complete games when he only had 2 complete games before. and this is already at the end of the season. dont you think he would be tired nearing the end of the season, especially at the age of 33, coming off an injury plagued season? it's supicious, imo.

how is it suspicious? it seems pretty damned commonplace to me. you get an example from willshad, but ohhhhhhh its different.

I think you are just blinded by hate and now are trying to make things up that just arent there.

[fenrir]

i dont hate anyone. i just dont see the comparison. santana didnt throw more complete games in his last ten starts nor did he strike out 20 batters at the end of the season. clemens clearly showed increased durability along with increased power at the end of the season. usually at the end of the season a pitcher gets tired, he doesnt get stronger and more durable. the other guys who fanned 20 all did it early in the season, and clemens even did it early himself in 86. back when he was 23. this time it occured at the end, after having a terrible season. just doesnt fit.

[Buzzaldrin]

Well, it pretty much screams "not steroids!"

They don't work overnight, you know, it takes months for them to have any noticable effect, and the first effects are often temporary worsening of the eyesight and physical brittleness. These don't bother a weight lifter so much, but they would bother a 33 year old power pitcher who's in the middle of a mediocre season. Anyhow, a .436 ERA, while not great, was still well better than the league average that year (and the three preceeding years for good measure). Clemens had some bad breaks- seven of his starts by mid-July were Boston losses by one run and another time he was shutout. He started winning August 11th, by then he'd had, it is true, five starts where he gave up more than five earned runs, but TEN where he gave up two or fewer (out of 24 starts). Four of his losses in that time- including three of his first four- he gave up two or fewer runs. That's not bad pitching.

And only once the entire season did he last less than five innings.

Oh yeah, and he also had four 10+ K games in five starts in May during his "bad" period.

[fenrir]

i dont buy that steroids dont work right away...the added strength and endurance would work immediately.

[fenrir]

and if they dont work right away...caminiti experienced the biggest placebo effect of alltime...

[rockin500]

i dont buy that steroids dont work right away...the added strength and endurance would work immediately.

then you dont understand how they work. Its not like you take them monday and you will be utterly dominating by the end of the week.

[fenrir]

then you dont understand how they work. Its not like you take them monday and you will be utterly dominating by the end of the week.

ok...let's say the muscle mass doesn't come right away...what about the increased endurance? why would that take weeks to come? couldnt increased endurance help with durability and effectiveness right away?

[rockin500]

ok...let's say the muscle mass doesn't come right away...what about the increased endurance? why would that take weeks to come? couldnt increased endurance help with durability and effectiveness right away?

no. it would still require a ramping up period. steroids arent a magic bullet that transforms things overnight.

[fenrir]

no. it would still require a ramping up period. steroids arent a magic bullet that transforms things overnight.

but i dont see why the enhanced endurance would take a long time to kick in. caminiti even said when he started taking it he noticed it right away. clemens would of had ten days between his awful start on august 1st, to his next performance, then two after, which featured great performances. ive heard of players and pitchers using at the end of the season to fight off fatigue...it may not build muscle in a matter of days but the enhanced endurance is there.

[rockin500]

but i dont see why the enhanced endurance would take a long time to kick in. caminiti even said when he started taking it he noticed it right away. clemens would of had ten days between his awful start on august 1st, to his next performance, then two after, which featured great performances. ive heard of players and pitchers using at the end of the season to fight off fatigue...it may not build muscle in a matter of days but the enhanced endurance is there.

you have enhanced endurance. but the effect isnt immediate. it just isnt. it takes time for the endurance part to build up as well.

[fenrir]

you have enhanced endurance. but the effect isnt immediate. it just isnt. it takes time for the endurance part to build up as well.

alright rockin, that's cool. im not doubting your word, but im still a bit skeptical. the question is, how much time? 5-7days? maybe a pitcher uses in between starts. im not really sure, and ill doubt ill ever find out.